Today's NYT says GM and Ford continue to run up losses in market share.

[KlatooBNikto]

Unable to stem the tide of poor sales all across the board, both carmakers are increasing the rebates on their cars hoping to clear the dealer lots of car inventories that are currently exceeding over 100 days worth of stocks. Meanwhile Toyota, Honda and Nissan are racking up sales gains.That would mean that the Japanese carmakers are going to increase their market share across the board further making life difficult for Ford and GM.

I think GM and Ford's future is beginning to look grim.No combination of scenarios one can visualize is going to allow them to climb out of their well deserved demise. This is what happens to companies that neglect their main business and let bean counters dictate how a product will be designed.

[SoCalDem]

1. Just more reasons for them to ask for a bail-out on pension obligations

You can bet your life that the CEOs and 'higher-ups' will not be hurting in the compensation department.

[KlatooBNikto]

3. What is devastating for them is that along with the loss of market share,

they are going to lose profits simply because they have to wrap nearly $3000 on each car to get it out of the dealer lots.The Japanese,on the other hand, are selling their cars at close to list price and at the same time running out of cars to sell.

When it rains, it pours.

[SoCalDem]

8. Not a week goes by, that someone doesn't knock on my door

and ask me if I would like to sell my 1981 Corolla wagon, or my '91 Accord..or my son's '68 super beetle...

Just like the ad says.. the answer is always 'no'..

[MikeDuffy]

11. Maybe just "68 really nice beetle"...

Wasn't the first Super Beetle production year 1971? (I also drive a 68 beetle). I'm hoping someone will start manufacturing a 1200cc or smaller cylinder set for my 69mm stroke engine, so I can get better gas mileage (right now the smallest displacement I know can easily go to is via a 1300cc cylinder set, which I intend to install the next time I have to remove the engine).

[SoCalDem]

12. What do I know?? I'm a girl :) It's bright yellow and is a super car

:P

[MikeDuffy]

13. How would you like to drive a bright yellow VW Lupo?

See:
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6167

[SoCalDem]

15. It's so cute..I could eat it up :)

I like the Mini Coopers too :)

[MikeDuffy]

16. I think Germany is (rightfully?) punishing US

by refusing to export its 90 mpg Lupo here, and of course American auto makers/oil companies are strongly resisting VW Lupo as well. Surely the old beetle is not safer to drive than the Lupo. I suppose Peak Oil will have to hit hard(er?) to change the political outlook here on this.

[TheFarseer]

2. The only question now is: Do we save them and how?

I don't think partially funding research or working in conjunction with them on reserch for automobiles that run on alternative fuels or hybrid tech or something similar is out of line. I REALLY hope we don't "throw money at them"

[billbuckhead]

5. In same article--"Chrysler brand set an all-time monthly sales record"

GM and Ford are beyond help. Al Gore tried to help the dumbasses and they pissed all over him. Now Toyota is building the cars Al Gore was lobbying for and Ford is buying licensing from Toyota to build hybrid cars. GM isn't even in the game.

The problem is that the American corporate culture values short term profit over all other goals. It's no accident that Mercedes has turned Chrysler into a world class competitor using the same workers and factories. GM will just build the crappiest hybrids if we help them.

Wait till Hyundai gets rolling in couple months and VW starts bringing in larger quantities of Mexican built product.

[benevolent dictator]

9. Ford is only licensing software from Toyota

and even that was developed independently, along with the rest of their hybrid tech. The software was just deemed "too close" to Toyota's and they didn't want a big legal battle that could have resulted in them not being able to use their newly developed tech for months or years even if they had won.

American corporations are obligated by US law to focus on short term profits for their share holders. I know that doesn't really excuse them, but their #1 duty is to their shareholders, and if the shareholders feel that they're looking too "long term" and not bringing in enough money then they can sue.

It's like how shareholders are all in a tizzy over Costco providing good benefits and a living wage to it's employees. They claim it's cutting into their profit share.

[LSdemocrat]

4. What the Bush administration did: Dump GM Humvees for DaimlerChrysler

Yup, the Bush administration placed an order for 15,000 DaimlerChrysler minivans (many of which are built in CANADA) instead of buying US-made GM Humvees for the military.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=105726

[gater]

6. The problem is social as well...I know first hand.

If you remember, right after 9/11, there was fear that the economy would head into a tail spin because big ticket item sales would drop. So, GM and then Ford threw out 0% interest and bigger rebates. Sales did not slump too badly, and the economy limped along. Well, John Q Public decided that huge rebates and low interest rates were a god given right, and the US automakers had no plan in place to ween the consumer off these gimmicks. The Pacific Rim players did not drop rates or increase cash back, so they had nothing to try and pull back from.
Indeed, this is not the only reason for the current down turn, but it plays a very large role. I know this first hand because I work for a massive auto group, and have been a part of, and have access to market studies.
As an aside, don't forget that Ford is a major target of right wing groups because of their support of gays, lesbians, and bisexuals across the planet. Granted, a really good customer base, but go to boycottford.com and read a little bit.
I will not defend everything Ford has ever done, but I swear I have never seen much that makes me think they are evil.

[natrat]

7. people are sick of things American-place/products are tainted

[dsc]

10. I have a Ford Focus and I love it

I know Ford and GM both have their share of problems but they also face some unfair competition as well as facing a health care system which makes their cars more expensive.

[Bluebear]

14. And the fundies are boycotting Ford for their "homosexual agenda"

:crazy: