TEMPEST IN TEXAS, Another Religious Cult - Quite Scary!

[crowcalling]

Tempest in Texas
Racist cult 'prophet' Warren Jeffs is on the move, and a tiny West Texas town fears another Waco

<snip>
FLDS members are taught to fear outsiders and only marry within the cult — a practice that has led to the deaths of many infants as a result of inbreeding.(Jackie Mercandetti Photos)
<snip>

Link - http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=527


Wow - I saw a program on this cult months ago, but this article is just appalling. It's amazing that this is happening right now in our country. Here is an great example of Theocracy in action. A modern day example of "The Village"

First time I've actually Posted to one of the discussion groups - so help me out if am not doing this right!

[autorank]

1. crowcalling, Welcome to DU!!! You're doing great.

This is chilling. ...and very interesting.

You posted elegantly (not too much verbiage like my posts).
You posted to the right forum.
You posted on a good topic.

:yourock:

[babylonsister]

2. Welcome to DU, crowcalling, and thanks for the info.

I'm going to put this in the TX forum. Thanks!

[sam sarrha]

3. unexplaned infant deaths should DEFINATLY be ilnvestigated...!!

especially SOOOOOOO many

[seabeyond]

4. we are getting a catholic one in amarillo.

the planned parenthood has put up a rod fence, out of fear. in this town, that is saying a lot. people need to listen.

[fishnfla]

5. This indeed could be a blow up

The FLDS is getting hounded out of Utah and fleeing to TX. This guy Jeffs feels he only answers to God.
Jon Krakauer has an excellent book on this "Under the Banner of Heaven" He was on NPR yesterday predicting a violent outcom.

Welcome to DU crowcalling :hi: good post

[crowcalling]

6. Thanks for the encouragement!

I wouldn't want these folks living next door to me. In the article it says

<snip>
"Strangers ("gentiles") touring the town are met with glances ranging from hostile to fearful. Outsiders, residents have been told, are "wicked."

"Everywhere visitors go in Short Creek, they are shadowed by an entourage of men SUV and pickups watching their every move, taking note of where they go and who they speak with — a silent intimidation of both the visitors and anyone who accommodates them"
<snip>

Woh! - Can you imagine RVing and ending up in this town not knowing what is going on? The police are part of this cult too! Wonder if "outsiders" have ever disappeared?

:scared:

[FreedomAngel82]

8. Oh wow

This is very scary indeed. I wouldn't want to go there. What town is it?

[crowcalling]

10. The town in Utah is "Short Creek"

If you google this, you come up with many many articles about this town and the cult.The town is located in northern Utah close to the Idaho border.

[tenshi816]

7. The first sentence of the article grabbed me.

It said that Eldorado, Texas is a town of 1,951 residents and 13 churches. Entirely separate from the issue of the scary cult moving in is the fact that that town has one church for every 150 people. No town that size needs that many freakin' churches - they wouldn't be able to fill 'em all up even if every single person in town attended church every Sunday!

And, yeah, this Warren Jeffs man is truly frightening. I can't help but make comparisons to Waco.

[Horse with no Name]

11. Eldorado is about an hour from San Angelo

Sits in the middle of nowhere and definitely has some "characters".
Very puglican.

Last election:
Schleicher County voted 76% for Bush.
Tom Green County voted 73% for Bush.

In retrospect...I couldn't think of a better place for these freaks to fit in.;)

[kliljedahl]

26. "Tom Green County"

I wish they'd name a county after me. Who the hell is Tom Green?



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Horse with no Name]

36. Info on Tom Green

"Tom Green County was created in 1874 from the Bexar District. It is named for General Tom Green of Texas Revolution fame. The county was organized in 1875, with twelve other counties created from this original area. On August 24, 1882, a flood engulfed the city of Ben Ficklin which was the county seat. Santa Angela then became the county seat, but the name was changed to San Angelo in 1883 by the post office. By 1884, the county boasted an ice house, a newspaper, a jail , a school, and several churches and businesses. Architect Oscar Ruffini arrived to supervise the construction of the first courthouse. The first telephone was installed in 1896, and San Angelo Independent School District formed in 1903. By 1928, the Cactus Hotel was built. A flood in 1936 and a storm in 1995 damaged many homes and businesses.

Known as the "Sheep and Wool Capital", Tom Green County is a center for area trade, education, and medical care. The 1996-97 Texas Almanac lists the population of Tom Green County as 102,477."

[kliljedahl]

38. Thanks, was being somewhat facetious

Figured it was an historical personage.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Horse with no Name]

46. I figured you were kidding however

I looked it up for myself and thought you might wanna know too.;)

[okasha]

29. Stereotypes don't help

A couple months ago, I attended a conference where one of my project partners was a deputy from Schleicher County. Yes, they're very much good ol' boys and girls, but hardly without good sense or kindliness. (Or the occasional "liberal" idea; this one thought Alexander was a fine movie and wasn't bothtered by the gay themes because "there's plenty of that everywhere.") The FLDS invasion has the rest of the County alarmed. Almost everyone, if my deputy buddy is to be believed, has read Under the Mandate of Heaven, and almost everyone is terrified of another Waco or worse. They're concerned about being outvoted for the town council and the school board; they're just as worried about being bankrupted by the welfare-looting practices of cults like these. They need support and solutions, not scorn.

[Horse with no Name]

35. Speaking from a person who has actually been to

Eldorado--I can say the town is full of characters.
What is happening is that you have a town full of Republican churchgoers who voted for Bush because they want a theocracy.
The problem is--they are looking at a theocracy developing up the road and it scares the bejeebus out of them. Of course it's not one of their choosing--and they don't like it.
Just as many of us Christians who don't believe as THEY do--look upon what they are trying to institute upon our country as a horror.

[Shallah Kali]

52. They want theocracy as long as it is *their* theocracy

then they go from wanting other people to practice their religion to supporting freedom of religion...

[FreedomAngel82]

15. This is frightening indeed

This must be hell to live in and very emotionally draining. Can you imagine finding out your uncle is also your stepfather? :crazy: Or that you're not allowed to laugh, watch movies, or celerbate holiday's? And here I thought the rightwingers were crazy. This guy makes the rightwingers look like people who I would like to have lunch with. :crazy: I don't think they'd ever get used to the investigator. I hope he doesn't turn up dead. :scared: This sums it up: 'If he's a prophet of anything,' Holm says, 'he's a prophet of evil and doom.' From Richard Holm who was excommunicated. How scary it must be to not be able to question authority and fall in love with someone outside the group. :scared: The thing with this is they do polgymoy. That's against religious teachings of Christ. This man is a false prophet and an evil oen at that. He's making these people live horrible lives that are definietley not healthy. At least this guy doesn't believe Jesus was born in December. This guy is still wacked up though. This is sad but has a happy ending: <Petersen herself began running away from Short Creek when she was 9 years old, hitchhiking or riding a horse to Kanab, Utah, a distance of 38 miles.

"The police were nice and would let me play pool and eat pizza before they took me back," she says, smiling. "Then my father would beat me until I couldn't crawl. Then I'd do it again."

She turned 14, found out she was to be married to a 48-year-old man who she says had previously molested her, and ran away for good. >

I'm glad this woman is helping other people with this cult. The woman also says proper education is the key. Right now the Jeffs guy is in charge of everything. Including education there and most people don't make it past eigth grade. :mad: That's his key. Keeping them dumb founded (remind you of anything?). It seems this guy likes to take people's money and promise they won't have to pay anything back and then he fleeds and soon after their local bank collapses. It's so horrible and sad. :cry:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

21. 2,000 residents and 11 churches

In the small Colorado town where I grew up. It's where I learned to distrust the hypocrisy of organized religion.

We have an LDS church there, I used to go to school with some of the kids, one was a very good friend when we were little. As we got older, I realized how screwed up they were, lots of emotional problems. When I was in 6th grade or so, they started their own church school, so there is no longer the day to day contact with regular people that those kids used to get. Extremely worrisome.
:(

[tenshi816]

22. Wow - it's hard for me to get my head around that

many churches in such a small town. I'm not sure I can even come up with enough denominations for that many - or are some of them splinter churches of the same denomination that started up after a falling out with another church?

I live in a town of about 11,000 people and we have 6 churches here, 2 Church of England, 1 Catholic, 1 Christian Scientist, 1 Jehovah's Witness and 1 Quaker Meeting House, and that seems plenty for our needs.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

25. you made me curious... so I looked it up...

My home town…

population in July 2002: 2,282

Current yellow page listings...

Assembly Of God
Baptist Church
Community Church Sbc - Southern Baptist
St Patrick's Church- catholic
Christian Church
Church Of Christ
Zion Lutheran Church
Methodist Church

Looks like we’ve lost a few since I was a kid…

More interesting stats – at least for me…

Median resident age: 37.8 years
Median household income: $30,984 (year 2000)
Median house value: $82,200 (year 2000)
Races breakdown
· White Non-Hispanic (77.8%)
· Hispanic (20.4%)
· Other race (8.1%)
· Two or more races (1.4%)
· American Indian (0.9%)
(Total can be greater than 100% because Hispanics could be counted in other races)

Ancestries: German (36.3%), English (14.0%), Irish (10.0%), United States (5.3%), Swedish (3.9%), Scottish (1.9%).

If they counted correctly, the American Indian % would be much greater – Our family has been there for 100 years, and we have Indian blood, not that it’s admitted very often. (thanks to some of us, that is changing! :) )

[hvn_nbr_2]

28. Oh, my! Your town is so spiritually deprived :-)

How does your spiritual life survive without all these:
Baptist
American Baptist
Independent Baptist
Reformed Baptist
Independent Reformed Baptist - Missouri Synod
Independent Fundamental Baptist
Southern Baptist
Free Will Baptist
Conservative Baptist
Grace Missionary Baptist
about 137 other kinds of Baptist
several dozen other Protestant denominations
five or six "non-denominational" churches with names like Bible Church, Christian Church, Independent Christian Bible Church, Calvary Church, Calvary New Life Church, New Life Church, Calvary Christ Church, Christ Calvary Church, Christ Church, New Calvary Church...

Wow, you Brits must be so spiritually deprived! :sarcasm:

Well, actually what I mean is :toast:

[tenshi816]

32. Actually I'm an American

but I've lived over here for 19 years and my husband is English, so it feels like home to me now.

I know what you mean though - I'm from Georgia originally and when I go back for visits, it's disconcerting to see church after church located what seems like just a couple hundred yards from each other for mile after mile after leaving Atlanta. I don't remember it being like this when I still lived in the States, either that or I was just so used to it I didn't notice it anymore, not sure which.

It says something to me about those folks though that even within the same denomination in a small geographical area they can't get along well enough to consolidate some of these teensy churches into larger ones. Obviously a lot of warm-hearted Christian brotherhood going on there, right? :sarcasm:

Those non-denominational types you mention are the ones that really scare me, because they're the ones that seem to make it up as they go along. The sheeple just buy into whatever old shit is flung at them, no matter how outrageous it might seem to those of us on the outside.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

33. It's not unlike DU

They, also, don't seem to be able to agree on religion. :eyes:

They have seven different denominations and one exclusively Spanish speaking baptist church. Since they have more than one Assembly of God , Baptist and Church of Christ I guess those denominations can't even agree from church to church?

For the record it doesn't matter to me, I'm actually glad that the Christians there don't all think the same way. What would be scary to me would be one church, with the entire town conforming to it's one set of beliefs.

Here's the list:

Agape Assembly of God

Templo Getsemani Assembly of God
--------------------------------
Community Baptist Church

First Baptist Church

St. Luke's Missionary Baptist Church

Primitive Baptist Church

Primera Iglesia Bautista (Spanish speaking - First Baptist Church)
--------------------------------
Westside Church of Christ

Mertzon Highway Church of Christ
--------------------------------
First Presbyterian Church
--------------------------------
First United Methodist Church
--------------------------------
FLDS
(Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints)
--------------------------------
Our Lady of Guadalupe Catholic Church
--------------------------------

[tenshi816]

44. I get your point about the idea of one huge megachurch,

God knows there's enough of them everywhere (I wasn't trying to be funny, but decided to leave that sentence as I first wrote it).

What I was trying to say about all the offshoot churches is that my feeling is that a lot of times these churches are set up because of one set of people falling out with another and starting a new church that is even more rigid. Of course, I can only speak from my own personal experience, which naturally colors my opinion about these things. In my own fundie family in Georgia, they were always moving to or helping set up whole new churches because no matter what, nothing was ever hard-right enough for them.

My family background is a weird mixture of Catholicism, fundie Southern Baptist and "Pentecostal Calvinists" (as my dad once memorably described them to me - he might have made the term up as far as I know, but the group he was talking about were about as hateful as any group of "Christian" people could be). I've seen and heard some bizarre things in my life connected with religion, including a relative being told at the funeral of her infant that she shouldn't bother mourning "because that baby might already be in hell" and thus wasn't worth crying over. Nice.

When I was growing up, I probably had more church-induced nightmares than any other kind. I don't believe God wants this (and I do believe in a higher power, although not an old guy with a long white beard whose son looks like Fabio - remember him? - with a smiting sword).

I feel like I've hijacked the original point of the thread, which isn't what I intended to do, and I'm sorry about that. Jeffs = scary crazy person

[Lone_Star_Dem]

47. I think you made a valid point, actually.

You made me wonder why they had so many churches and I looked to see just what the heck WAS going on there. I found it interesting that they had such a diverse array of denominations for such a tiny area. You made me curious and that's something I always appreciate. :)

I also appreciate your views on why a town ends up with several of one denomination of a church. It's something I've wondered about before and you offered a very plausible explanation.

There's nothing wrong with offering your observations or views. That's one of the things I like the most about DU, we see things from many different angles here.

[tenshi816]

48. I like the diverse opinions at DU as well,

although sometimes it's scary. We're an opinionated bunch of folks, that's for sure. Some days I come in here and find myself amazed that there's so much "fussin' and fightin'" going on, but I truly believe we're all (except for trolls) on the same side.

[MrScorpio]

9. Welcome to DU

A story like this should remind us all about the age old admonishment regarding POWER and ABSOLUTE POWER.

[morningglory]

12. By the way, fyi, Fletcher Christian and the other Bounty guy

escaped after the mutiny to a deserted island with 2 Pacific Island women. When they were discovered and studied, generations later, anthopologists said it was as if brother married sister and gave birth to a boy and girl who married each other, generation after generation. There was no known instance of insanity, and no noticable poor health. Breeders who raise show dogs and chickens breed father to daughter to bring out certain characteristics. That being said, I believe poor health and poor medical care would result in high infant mortality more than inbreeding. I am not a proponent of inbreeding, but I do not think that it explains much. I live in the South here near a poor area of town where the white people look like they were in the movie "Deliverance". A Northern co-worker said "just drive through there and you see all the results of incest..." It is poor diet and sugar, mainly. Look at the pictures of African children in Africa who are possibly living on roots, leaves and fruit from the forest. Their teeth look beautiful because they are eating fresh food. No fridge.

[Shallah Kali]

53. inbreeding concentrates bad genes

animal breeders might get away with doing it once in a while but keep it up and you will get messed up results. Check out the studies here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=11474206&tool=ExternalSearch

[Kerrytravelers]

13. Welcome to DU crowcalling!

:hi:

[Domitan]

14. Check out Warren Jeffs' picture

I can't help but think of Vince McMahon's skinny but even more insidious cousin.

[crowcalling]

16. Yeah - check out the eyes!

Spooky ....

[Domitan]

19. and that hungry smirk of power

At last we have a cult leader whose looks match his evil. David Koresh, Myung Moon, Applewhite, et al could all look like reasonable citizens until people learn of their true feelings and words.

[Bluebear]

43. caramba!

[katinmn]

17. Those poor kids!

inbreeding, perpetual "Little House on the Prairie."

Hope they find a non-violent way to shut Jeffs little operation down.

Welcome to DU, crowcalling!:hi:

[Tux]

18. It's Texas

Theocracy is already there. They'll spread it to the rest of the nation in their worship of death and disease. War is coming.

[ultraist]

20. A breakaway Mormon sect?

But Mankin discovered that Steed was actually an agent for a breakaway Mormon sect known as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS) and based in an Arizona-Utah border community long known as Short Creek (encompassing the twin cities of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz.).

He began researching the FLDS, and what he would learn would astonish him: stories of "blood atonement," child brides, rabid racism, multiple wives, and a secretive, religious dictator.

The more he learned, the more apparent it became that the folks at the ranch had no interest in hunting at all.

The FLDS is a polygamous religious cult led by 48-year-old "prophet" Warren Jeffs, who teaches his followers (he claims an estimated 10,000) that blacks are the descendants of Cain, "cursed with a black skin" and selected by God to be "the servants of servants."

:wow:

[Cleita]

24. A lot of this in 'murika.

Small towns in isolated areas tend to be more tolerant of their neighbors than in more densely populated places. The belief is to mind your own business, as long as they mind their's. When I lived in the Northwest, particularly in the forested sparsely populated areas, there were White Supremist cults dug in as well, because the locals had the same don't mess with me and I won't mess with you or pry into your business mentality.

The town of Coeur d'Alene in Idaho fought decades of battles with the Aryan Nation, another group that treats women like door mats, trying to get them to leave. They had dug themselves into a compound when no one went to Coeur d'Alene and no one bothered them. Once the place started blossoming as a vacation destination, they became a nuisance to the locals and so the struggle to get rid of them began.

I have been to those places in Utah and Arizona mentioned in the story. Those towns border what is developing into a big recreation and vacation destination, Lake Powell as well as the Moab area. Apparently, the locals have decided that it's time for them to go. It's bad for business, not to mention with the law being broken daily by the cult members, it gets harder to look the other way.

[Liberal In Texas]

23. Weird.

In the two years since he became prophet, Jeffs has ordered all dogs shot; closed the town zoo; forbidden television, holidays, movies and music; banned laughter; forbidden swimming and water sports, and sent "God Squads" of young men to inspect residences and report any violations of his edicts.

I don't trust anybody who'd shoot all the dogs.

Welcome to DU crowcalling

[kliljedahl]

27. Welcome to DU crowcalling

Excellent post, this is scary shit.

:toast:
:hi:
:yourock:

Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Tansy_Gold]

30. FLDS is not a new sect; the Texas compound is not breaking news.

FLDS has been established in the towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Arizona, for many decades, and has operated pretty much with impunity due to its isolated geography and the willingness of local law enforcement to do nothing.

There is a great deal of information available on the FLDS, on Warren Jeffs and his father Rulon Jeffs.

The Texas community has been very much aware of Jeffs' purchase of property and his building of the compound, and they aren't happy about it.

[crowcalling]

39. Realize this isn't new

But why does it still exist? I mean we really put up a stink about a Baptist church throwing out democrats - and of course this should rightfully cause us concern, but this is an existing sect that lives outside of the law and is practicing all kinds of crimes.

Enlighten me as to why it is so hard to enforce the law with this group of folks?

There are women who are virtually prisoners and slaves here not to mention the abuse, property stolen and even possibly murder.

Why is this something we cannot do anything about???

Hello????
:shrug:

[Horse with no Name]

40. My guess would be that they don't want another Ruby Ridge or Waco

scenario on their hands.

[realFedUp]

31. Dr. Phil had two shows on this group

I don't know if there's info at his website
but he had on two young women who ran away
from the area and their families.

[elehhhhna]

34. The "Village" was self financed. These mouth breathers (oops--

did I say that out loud?) "bleed the beast", i.e., abuse welfare & other government programs to pay their bills. It's just really wife & kid ranching on the taxpayers dime.

[crowcalling]

41. But they think "government" is evil!

according to the article anyways...Guess there are necessary evils - right? It would be interesting if Warren Jeff was a contributer to the Republican Party or Bush's re-election.

[elehhhhna]

49. Because it's "evil', it's okay to milk it. Read "Under the Banner of

Heaven"--it's out in paperback. These folks are twisted.

[rucky]

37. so how is this different from any other town in West Texas? n/t

[Eloriel]

42. You're doin' GREAT --

and welcome to DU!

Glad to have you here.

[AspenRose]

45. *sigh*

"Marriage between close relations can bring out the worst in genetics."

Apparently these brainiacs have never heard of hybrid vigor...or observed the european royal families....

[preciousdove]

50. Prince Charles, nuf said. n/t

1

[sweetheart]

51. Whatever

The country is filled with religious nutjobs... and the bush criminals
are worse by far than this group. If we're talkin' crime, lets
get on to mass murder first and foremost... this dude is small pickins.

It is the cost of freedom of religion. It means you are free to
believe and preach whatever whacky think you like from worshipping
malefic criminality in the white house, to worshipping cum stains on
a blue dress.

There are lots of hate groups in the US, and it really has nothing to
do with being a religious cult that's a problem here. Its criminality
and hate crimes that are a problem... and this is a real problem
all over the place... so why single out these people?

[SmileyBoy]

54. I recommend that we keep this kicked.

This is indeed a very scary story.

:kick:

[SmileyBoy]

55. Kick

:kick: