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carrowsboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:46 AM
Original message
Oh great! Another white woman missing!
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 01:08 AM by carrowsboy
EDITED: for taste and misuse of a word. I meant to blame the MSM who report on this stuff as opposed to the "real" news. Sorry, it is 2am and I just took my trazodone.


What is with the media making this the news all the time?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/04/missing.teen/index.html

Teen's disappearance a criminal case

Aruba police say three men are 'people of interest'

Saturday, June 4, 2005 Posted: 10:51 PM EDT (0251 GMT)
A poster has been released by the Holloway family to aid the search for Natalee.


An 18-year-old girl on vacation in Aruba with classmates vanishes.
PLAY VIDEO


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- Aruba police are treating the case of a missing Alabama high school graduate as a criminal investigation but still hope she will be found unharmed, a police spokesman said Saturday night.

Natalee Holloway, 18, was on a senior trip with classmates when she went missing nearly a week ago.

Rudie Soemers, night watch commander, said the effort to find her became a criminal case two days after her disappearance. The woman from the affluent Birmingham suburb of Mountain Brook was last seen leaving a nightclub called Carlos 'n' Charlie's in the town of Oranjestad.

Witnesses said she left in a car with three local young men between the ages of 18 and 25 at about 1:30 a.m. Monday.

Friends have said they have pictures of her dancing with young men at the club.

Authorities have said they talked to the three men who left with her, and the men claim they took Holloway to Arashi Beach before dropping her off at her hotel at about 2 a.m.

The Associated Press reports her uncle, Paul Reynolds, as saying he was told security cameras did not show her return to the hotel that night. The AP says police declined to comment on that report.

"We're still looking, we're still hoping she's alive," Soemers told CNN. He said several people claim they've seen the girl, but the leads have gone nowhere.

Aruba police have three theories concerning her disappearance.

The first theory is that "people of interest" -- the three men Holloway was last seen with early Monday morning -- may have harmed her, deputy police chief Gerald Dompig said.

The second theory is that Holloway may have chosen to disappear "on her own accord," and still a third theory is that Holloway may have been kidnapped, he said.

Even if Holloway did disappear on her own, whoever has harbored her will face criminal charges, Soemers said.

Police spent much of Saturday afternoon at a hotel under renovation near the Holiday Inn where Holloway was staying. They refused to say what led them to the site or what they found, if anything.

In a news conference back in Birmingham, Holloway's aunt, Marcia Twitty, said Saturday that based on information police have relayed to the family, "We feel that we will have a definitive answer in 24 hours."

Aruba's Prime Minister Nelson O. Oduber said Friday that more FBI agents had been added to help in the search, and efforts will be concentrated around coastal areas. Aiding the FBI and Aruba police in the search are Holloway's family members, tourists, Aruban nationals and Dutch marines.

Oduber pledged his nation's "full support and utmost dedication" in finding Holloway. "We are shocked and completely distressed at this turn of events," he said. "We will not tolerate any activities that harm our American friends or tarnish Aruba's reputation."

Rewards and yellow ribbons

Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, who flew to Aruba to help search efforts, said about 20 to 40 of Holloway's classmates saw her leave.

"Natalee's bags were packed and ready to go," Beth Twitty told CNN Friday. "Everything was packed. Her passport was in her purse -- she even had the remaining cash she had on her in her purse -- it was in her room, everything was zipped up. She was ready to go home."

"This is such a mystery. It's a mystery to Aruba, and it's a mystery to the United States," she said.

She said she has tried to remain focused and driven during the search because "I wanted to make sure that she would be as proud of me as I am of her in accomplishing our one goal and that is to find Natalee."

Holloway was on the trip to Aruba with about 100 Mountain Brook High School students to celebrate their graduation. Marcia Twitty said Saturday that the Holloway family "absolutely" believes the seven parent chaperones on the Aruba trip did all they could.

Holloway is a straight-A student and a member of the National Honor Society as well as the school's dance team. She has an academic scholarship to the University of Alabama.

The family has posted a $50,000 reward for any information leading to her whereabouts. A family representative said the money was donated in $10,000 increments from the Aruban Tourist Board, the family, the Aruban government, an anonymous donor and the additional $10,000 from various other sources.

The family has asked members of the Mountain Brook community to post yellow ribbons in her honor. In addition, some area youths are making bracelets. Daily prayer services are being held for Holloway.

She is described as being 5 feet 4 inches tall and 110 pounds. The FBI announced Saturday a tip line for Holloway. People with any information are encouraged to call 1-877-628-2533.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. What makes her a skank?
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funflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. Agreed the press exploits these kinds of tragedies while ignoring
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 01:45 AM by funflower
stories it should report.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. .
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 01:52 AM by Bluebear
Thanks for the edit, pass the trazadone :)
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Theres-a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. It's not too late to edit your post.
Just saying...
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Ditto that.... you can redeem yourself
Do it quickly.... please.
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Ditto! Skank? you've got to be kidding me!
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 01:24 AM by anarchy1999
Yes, this does appear once again to be way to convenient for our mass media hold on the masses. Damn'ed it all. How many people go missing every damned day, why do we get 24/7 over this one?

She is blond, she is a teen from Alabama, Christian, oh where should we all go from here? I'm sorry she is missing but the focus, IMHO, is off.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
75. I replied to #4....
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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. I agree about the laziness and cowardice of the national media
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 01:15 AM by Syrinx
If that's what you mean.

But how dare you demean the disappearance and possible murder of a teenager with your hateful remarks?
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unsavedtrash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. why define her as a "skank?" She is simply a missing teen. We
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 01:03 AM by unsavedtrash
have become so jaded. However, I would love for all missing children to be the cover story of major news. Maybe then families could get their kids home. Bitch about that instead of calling names.
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ConfuZed Donating Member (856 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. Ummm carrowsboy
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 01:58 AM by ConfuZed
Do you have a problem with the MSM reporting missing white "skanks", while they do report missing white females exclusively I don't have a problem with it what I do have a problem with is the "exclusiveness" not the "race" there are other women of other races that don't get reported but I don't believe these women should be subsidized for white women or vice-versa a missing person should be looked at as simply that.



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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ConfuZed Donating Member (856 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Sorry but I thought what he/she making racist statements...
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 02:01 AM by ConfuZed
I'll edit my topic n/t
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ObaMania Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
9. Gee, I'm wondering if it was a good idea for her to..
.. leave a bar with three dudes at 1:30 in the morning.

And where were her friends?

What is it with these stupid kids?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. What's wrong with the idiot adults that were supposed to be
herding them?

Hate to say this but it looks like another case of parents' throwing money at their kids instead of care. :(
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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. obviously not
But at least what I'm hearing is that she had gotten friendly with at least one of the guys over a period of a few days.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. First off

I'm wondering why the parents allowed a 17 year old recent
high school grad to travel to Aruba with friends (and no apparent
adult supervisison)... I mean, sure, she is ALMOST grown into a
young lady, but 17 year olds don't demonstrate the best in level
headed behavior, especially when traveling to a Caribbean island
with a group of friends.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I am so with you on that
Aren't senior class trips supposed to be to Washington DC or something? Not Aruba and Cancun to party at "Carlos and Charie's bar" until 2 a.m.!

(Man do I sound old.)
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. No, you do not sound old. Something odd is happening.
Damned it all!!!
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. it was a graduation trip. and all of these kids were going off to college
in two short months. 40 adults were supposedly with them. While I wouldn't ever let my son go to a "spring break" while still in high school, I think the circumstances would be a bit different if he was 18, and ready to leave home for college.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. No way!
Fact is she is a naive girl (according to accounts). A trip that includes a bar at 2 a.m. is nothing I would allow a high school senior to go on. Were the chaperones at the bar? Why did no one notice her missing until the next morning?
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. according to accounts there were chaperones at the club, but I don't
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 02:05 AM by KaliTracy
think they were doing much chaperoning.

They also took a private jet to Aruba, whereas the kids travelled in a commercial flight. I thought that was odd.

See post #17.

edit:number
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Tomee450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #28
66. One of the
students said there was only one chaperone at the bar.
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readermostly Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #28
90. I've heard on TV that the drinking age in Aruba is 18. Those students
were probably tasting their first brush with that legal drinking age. No doubt they needed much more adult supervision. This is a sad story. I hope this story turns out well, but it's not looking good right now.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. What is she were a he?
Just asking.

I'm the mother of a "he," not a "she." And I'm gonna have to beat the girls off with a stick. He's smart, he's sensitive and he's beautiful and I'm not just blowing Mom smoke. People on this board have met my kid and will back it up.

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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. I would not let him go. Senior trip to "ARUBA"? I just don't think you'd
say okay. It is not in your nature, but then I could be mistaken. Maybe I'm just too much the prude in all this.
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 07:48 AM
Original message
um... if my son were 18, he'd have to register for the draft, no? I
certainly wouldn't want him shipped off to some mucked up war that we had no business starting in the first place, but if the draft was reinstated, he'd have to go if his number was called. That would be a hell of a lot worse to me than Aruba.
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #30
45. delete, double post
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 07:48 AM by KaliTracy
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. I was smart and sensitive once too!
(Beautiful, well...)

I know that as a high school senior I was way too 'young' to go to a party island. I guess my sense is the kids will have plenty of time for that during spring breaks in college, I don't think an island vacation which includes cocktail lounges are right for the age group. Guess I'm an old prude :hi:
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
77. "Chaperones" for trips like these are often people who accept the
trip and responsibility with a "wink and a nod". They are "getting a free vacation", and often do little to "control" the kids..
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
91. Actually
I was thinking the same thing until I rememberd "senior week". It was the week that we all went "down the ocean" the the week we were finally free from highschool, and this was almost always without adult supervision. Granted, this is in a different country, which lends its own dangers. But I'm not sure I'm in a position to totally condemn this, myself.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
53. My senior class went to a nearby park
WTF is it nowadays with these kids going to the Carribbean?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #53
78. Florida is cracking down on underage drinking..
Foreign places don't give a damn who drinks or how much they drink
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I would not want nor would I accept this kind of trip for my daughter.
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 01:32 AM by anarchy1999
no way.

I would love to post her picture here but I can not and will not. My daughter though, is blond/brunette, and drop dead gorgeous. I'd be scared out of my mind to let her go to Aruba for a "senior" trip. I would not pay for it and I would say NO! What were all these parents thinking?

On edit: The school I had my daughter in senior trip was to DC.

ARUBA? Give me a break and then some!
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. It was a graduation trip. see post #18.
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. Is there a difference between senior trip and graduation trip?
Come on Kali, do you have a daughter, would you let her go to Aruba? Have you been there yet?
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. I think there is a difference between a graduation trip and a school
trip -- it's not like 6 teens got on a plane to go to Aruba for spring break -- 124 students were there, and there were 40 adults. Have I been there? No. I would argue that these adults weren't doing their job, but that's not really what's in question here.

And... I would consent if my son (no I don't have a daughter) was going off to college in 6 weeks -- if he/she was legally an adult (as she is), and probably I would make him pay for it (he's 5 though...and a pretty rational little guy, I have some time to change my mind if he gets overly irrational in his teen years).

I just turned 18 when I went to college in another -- bigger -- city. Was my mother scared. I'm sure she was. She allowed me to go away for college after I went to New York City on a school sponsored trip (when I was 17, I turned 18 in July) -- with a lot less chaperones, and about the same number of kids. We flew. We went to a place that is "full" of chaos (it was November 1982)

It was over thankgiving weekend. While I was gone she realized that if I wanted to go away for college, she really should let me. It was the first time I had been away from home during a holiday. She told me this when I got back -- I applied to Cincinnati (I had a friend here at the time) -- and I've always felt that my life would have been much different -- in a bad way -- if I had stayed at home during my college years.
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Kali, I'm trying hard but you are losing in my book. Do you really
beleive in what you write? You went on a school sponsered trip to NYC with a lot less chaperones and the same number of kids. What are you thinking, dearest? Full of chaos, NYC in 1982? What chaos did you encounter or were exposed to? I'd love to know.

IMHO, you are losing your argument.
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #37
50. my point is that there was a potential for chaos, no? Everyone here is
saying "Aruba? Are you crazy?" When NY at the time was pretty choatic in its own right, and had a hell of a lot more of things like muggings and other crime. There is a potential for problems in any place, away from home, or at the mall.

In my opinion, with the facts presented, I still have to say that a 1 to 5 ratio of adults to students is pretty good -- the fact that the chaperones didn't do their job is what is so terrible. The fact that this girl was naive and maybe was talked into something that got her in a very bad position is even more terrible. But the facts -- girl of 18, going to college soon, on a trip with over 40 chaperones to a place with a very low crime rate...

For me, this is all hypothetical (my son is only 5) -- and age dependent, as well as dependent on what kind of choices my young adult would make at the time... what kind of things he got involved in as a younger teen... what kind of young adult he was. I'm trying to think like parents who DID make this choice, and why they might have.

and as I said in a few posts this morning -- at 18 a child can be in the military and be deployed -- whether or not the parent agrees to it. Whether it's a voluntary sign up for son or daughter, or a draft situation for son, at 18, that situation would be out of my hands. I'd opt for Aruba before Iraq.
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #27
35. I also have to say, that in this area - there are many highschoolers
Juniors as well as seniors, who drive to florida for spring break without their parents -- and I do have an issue with that. When I was in college, "spring break" was a college thing. The difference though is in the number of adults present -- as well as the mode of transportation. My son will be 18 when he graduates, however there is no way he would take a trip like this when he was 16.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. Kali, all I can say is "Look at what happened to this girl."
The result should give parents pause.
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #38
47. but that could have happened anywhere. that's my point. If the
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 08:04 AM by KaliTracy
circumstances were as reported (124 students with 40 chaps, that's about 1 adult for every 3 or 4 kids) -- then I would HAVE to go on those facts, first. According to ALL accounts this type of crime is very rare there (as opposed to other vacation spots) -- (of course there could be some unreported statistics....)

If it were 6 girls (or boys for that matter) wanting to go, saving up, and doing it on their own, I'd have more reservations.

If my son (or my hypothetical daughter) was 18 and he wanted to travel the country, or Europe for a year before he went to college, I'd let him (or her) -- but probably not alone -- at least with a few others.

If my hypothetical daughter was really into the military and was ready to serve her country and ready to be deployed whereever they sent her when she signed up (fully knowing what she was signing for -- not that she was signing for $15,000 and "free college") -- um, I'd have a LOT of discussions with her, but this would be her choice. And at 18, if they deployed her to Iraq after basic training, I'd have to let her go. It would be against the law not to send her to get shot at and potentially trapped by a stealth bomber That would be a hell of a lot harder than watching her go on a trip.
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youngdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #47
54. I agree with you..
In several months that young adult would have been going to college, away from her parents. tragedy can strike anywhere at anytime. It would be nice to hold our children indefinitely and not let them go anywhere, but that is not going to happen.

I live in the south where almost ALL seniors save up and go on a "graduation" trip. Legally ( if age 18) they do not have to have chaperone's with them, and most, are 18. Thankfully though there are chaperone's that do go with them.
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #54
63. yes, in this case it was the chaperones who were at fault, who
didn't notice that she wasn't with the group -- who should have been watching who was coming and leaving at the club.

and thanks! :)
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ObaMania Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. I'm with you on that. Why just look at the *B*U*SH* twins.
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 01:32 AM by all_hail_gwb
And don't even get me started on what I've seen and done at Spring Breaks and on "HS Grad Trips".

That was years ago, though.. it's different today, and not in a good way.

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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. there were 124 students and 40 Chaperones -- though it looks
like each Chaperone didn't stay with a group of kids...
http://www.boston.com/news/world/latinamerica/articles/2005/06/03/missing_teens_mom_asks_for_help/

apparently there were about 8 chaperones in the club with the group of kids that was there. However how they were "Chaperoning" is certainly in question.


She was 18, btw.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
52. no it's not a good idea but young people do stupid things
hell, so do old people
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Tomee450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
65. Exactly.
I cannot comprehend why a young woman would get into a car with three strangers. Also, those were very poor friends. They should have tried to stop her. Those men had probably been drinking and no telling what they did to her. A profiler said this morning that it is very doubtful that she will be found alive. I feel so sorry for the parents. I wonder if they ever taught her that getting into cars with strange men is not the thing to do.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
68. Ahhh, so we're going into blaming the victim mode, eh?
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 12:10 PM by Eloriel
Would you REALLY say that about a missing male teen in the same situation? Or say it as quickly and readily?

To answer your question (and I've not seen that info released myself), she apparently thought they were perfectly safe OR it's not possible she was drugged.

Why should a woman who thinks new friends are safe be LESS able to spend further time with them than a male in the same situation? That is the very ESSENCE of societal, institutionalized, pervasive sexism, gender discrimination, and second class status. Women should have the same right to feeling and actually being safe as men; we shouldn't have to live our lives with the fear of violence against us limiting and circumscribing ALL our activities.

Blaming the victim in this makes the day when we CAN be fully equal recede further into the future.

HINT: Your job, as someone somewhere on the left of the politica spectrum is at the very least, if you're not going to WORK for full equality for women and minorities, is not to IMPEDE our progress.
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ObaMania Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #68
88. Woah!
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 11:03 PM by all_hail_gwb
Would you REALLY say that about a missing male teen in the same situation? Or say it as quickly and readily?

I certainly would. But it isn't about a missing male teen now, is it?

To answer your question (and I've not seen that info released myself), she apparently thought they were perfectly safe OR it's not possible she was drugged.

Hmmm, let's see... 3 guys perfectly safe that you met in a foreign country and have only known for a few days?

Why should a woman who thinks new friends are safe be LESS able to spend further time with them than a male in the same situation? That is the very ESSENCE of societal, institutionalized, pervasive sexism, gender discrimination, and second class status. Women should have the same right to feeling and actually being safe as men; we shouldn't have to live our lives with the fear of violence against us limiting and circumscribing ALL our activities.

No discrimination here, just realism. I would freak if my young adult daughter left a bar (probably after a night of partying) with three guys and no friends to watch her back. Face facts, against 3 guys who probably intend to do her harm, she may be a little helpless. There's a good chance they weren't going to hang out and listen to records somewhere. And no, you shouldn't have to live your lives with fear of violence, etc.. but there are alot of freaks out there who don't share your philosopy of how it "should be".

Blaming the victim in this makes the day when we CAN be fully equal recede further into the future.

Not blaming the victim (where did you come up with this shit?), just expressing concern for a young woman who should NOT go out on the streets at 1:30 AM in a foreign land with 3 guys she hardly knows. Simple as that. It is disingenuous of you to read anything else into it.

HINT: Your job, as someone somewhere on the left of the politica spectrum is at the very least, if you're not going to WORK for full equality for women and minorities, is not to IMPEDE our progress.

HINT: I'm not sure what qualifies you to tell me what my "job" is, but you seem to be mistaking progress with the use of good judgement and common sense. Tell ya what.. let's see how this case unfolds to see if her progress was impeded.

PS.. Are your posts always so angry? If so, you may need to have that problem looked at.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Speaking of having problems looked at --
how interesting to read "angry" in my post.

But yeah, I'm usually VERY angry about the sexism in the world, the violence against women in the world, the insensitivity toward al of that -- AND all of the same right here at DU. It makes me very angry. This post you're objecting to wasn't anywhere near angry, but it was passionate, tho not even my usual decibel level for "passionate."

AND, when you suggest, as you most certainly did, that she had no business being out and at a club at 1:30 and leaving the bar with 3 young men (who've since been questioned and released, I might point out -- VALIDATING her judgment of them), then you most certainly ARE blaming the victim.

We don't look down our noses judgmentally and ask mugging victims why they were in that area, or what they were doing wearing that Rolex watch. We don't ask auto theft victims why parked where they did, implying that they had no business being there and can only blame themselvs as a result. You bet it's blaming the victim.

It's also helping keep institutionalized sexism firmly in place AND enabling violence against women by validating the idea that women SHOULD live more limited lives because of violence against women instead of insisting that women be just as free as men to come and go in our society.
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
22. Aruba is very close to Venezuela
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 01:54 AM by Jose Diablo
With the news a few weeks back about those 4 guys in the military that boosted 20,000 rounds of ammo and delivered it to right-wing paramilitary groups in Bolivia, I cannot get it out of my mind that Bu$h wants the populist Chavez in oil-rich Venezuela out of the picture.

Maybe it means nothing, but I wonder if our embassy in Aruba has offered military personnel to help in the search for this woman that was abducted.
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Oh Nooo! Oh Damn! You just might be on to it all!
Tin foil alert!
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ConfuZed Donating Member (856 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Do you think its a cover for a CIA operation? n/t
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. I don't know
All I know is the media is all over this story. You know, white-slavery is rampant in Central and South America. It would be an easy thing to snatch a woman, sell her to an operator in another country and use her to please wealthy clients. I hope she just wandered-off, but the world is a very dangerous place for those that are unwary. Oftentimes, the youth do not possess a healthy distrust of strangers. Especially those from a sheltered environment in their home communities.

Although a senior trip to an exotic Caribbean island may sound very good, I don't know. Something like this can happen. Even with the best of chaperons watching.

A black-bag operation? Who can say? I was just noting the proximity to Venezuela and wondering why the media would attach so much significance to an 18 year old that went missing.
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Your premise is worthy of consideration. Damned it all!
Where were the "chaperones"? Would you let your daughter go on this trip?
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. What I heard
was she disappeared from a 'night-spot', people partying and she wandered-off with 3 people nobody knew. And she never came back. Did she go someplace to smoke some dope maybe? If so, then chaperons would have been of no use whatsoever, because she herself would had helped the abductors thinking she was 'escaping' from parental oversight.

Thats what I mean about coming from a 'sheltered' environment. Youth sometimes think of protection as domination, and rebel.

If I had a daughter and she was 18, I doubt I would have the ability to say no. I could point out the dangers, if I was able to predict them, but who can predict these things? Most parents themselves would not believe a place so close to the USA could have such things as white-slavery and kidnapping going on. We are not accustomed to thinking these things in our country.
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Sorry Jose, I think about these issues every day. My daughter is that
beautiful and that naive. I would never have said yes to this trip and I would not have given one dime for her to go. Chaperones be damned! Where were they and how did no one not notice her absence until the am?

The Chaperones are guilty of negligence.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #39
79. I'm having a problem with your "beautiful" daughter, anarchy
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 07:36 PM by Eloriel
Neither beauty nor age have much to do with whether a girl or woman is abducted, raped or otherwise harmed. Availability is probably a bigger factor, for those

I'm sure she's beautiful, I'm sure you're proud of her, and protective of her, and all that really good stuff. But PLEASE don't imply and thereby spread the dangerous myth that violence against women (and children) affects only the beautiful and "desirable."
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 03:29 AM
Response to Original message
40. What's with the "another white woman" bit?
Is that supposed to be humorous, or something?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ConfuZed Donating Member (856 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Ummm excuse me
He was just asking a question about the obviously racist topic he never crossed the line although I believe the original poster did on numerous occasions.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 04:37 AM
Response to Original message
43. the exact same thing happened to a Univ of Fla MALE student
in March--mysteriously vanished from a beach town in Costa Rica during a Spring Break trip with 11 or 12 other students. Why weren't we bombarded with this story? (rhetorical question)

Search continues for Florida student in Costa Rica

Dobbins mother tells of the pain

Students at the University of Florida managed to raise $6,500 toward his family's expenses in Costa Rica. Compare that to the $50,000 donated from various sources and offered as a reward in this Aruba case.

I so totally agree that coverage of missing young white women is completely disproportional to its occurrence.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #43
80. The disproportionality YOU see isn't the young woman's fault, nor is
it her fault that missing males aren't accorded the same "benefit." I think ALL children, and all adults who go missing should be covered until they're not missing any more. That's sexism - the sexual allure and titilation of a missing woman

But PLEASE, so many people are acting like the critiques of the media's coverage are the young woman's fault and/or she doesn't deserve somehow the attention. YES SHE DOES -- AND SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE!!

Further, I'm not at all sure the coverage is "disproprotional" to the occurrence of missing young white women. It's certainly not disproportional to the entirety of the epidemic of all sorts of violence against women. I might just go dig for some statistics.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
44. Would the media cover this if she was
a male student, a young woman of color or an ugly, fat, white girl? MSM is essentially People Magazine trying to pass itself off as something serious. What's better than a beautiful blond on a tropical island allegedly going off with 3 unknown men and not returning? This - from the media standpoint - is a winner. (My standpoint: What the hell were the parents of this girl thinking to let her go on the trip in the first place?)
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #44
67. Of course not!
:sarcasm:
We who don't fit the description are used to being invisible from the mainstream media unless we do some nasty, dastardly act and we even get front page attention and a picture too!
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
46. "Rewards and yellow ribbons"
I realize this is horrible for that young woman's family, but:

::puke::
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
48. Update: 2 Security Guards arrested (they worked for a hotel
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 08:33 AM by elehhhhna
undergoing renovations (currrently closed) near the Holiday Inn. The 3 students she left the bar with have been cleared. The "Security Guards" are being questioned now.

Sounds like she may have been grabbed off the street near her hotel.
The closed hotel is being searched also.

If her body's on the windward side of the island (unpopulated) she'll be very hard to find.

Rumjor is they're searching near a bridge. If they mean the "natural Bridge", the riptides are unreal and odds are she will not be found, ever...Nat. Bridge pics here:
http://www.aruba-travelguide.com/sights/natural_bridge.html
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Theres-a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
49. Wonder if this is leading to RFID chips
For your own safety,citizen.:sarcasm:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
51. Here's what I don't get
Why does a group of high schoolers go to Aruba? Did the school sponsor this trip?

And what was this girl doing in a bar at midnight?
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. They're from one of the richest municipalities in the country.
Most Brookies could go to Aruba every weekend if they wanted to.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. I went to high school with the wealthiest kids in KC
and like I said, we went to a county park for our senior trip. These kids are TOO YOUNG for this kind of a graduation treat. Maybe this tragedy will educate the parents in that community. Hard way to learn that lesson though.
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #55
73. You must be...
...from the "Big Ham," or somewhere in north/central Alabama. "Brookies" was a dead-giveaway.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #51
56. Parents paid. 100 plus kids, 40 chaperones.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. 3 kids per chaperone
and they lost a kid?

Can't help but wonder what the chaperones were doing instead of watching the kids. I find it strange that the chaperones didn't even fly down there with the kids.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. I'm thinkin' one chaperone per room--"but we didn't notice her
missing until she failed to appear at the airport". HUH? Serios ass-covering going on vis-a-vis chaperonage, imho.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. If this had been a school sponsored trip
somebody would be losing their job. There is no excuse for these chaperones losing track of a kid.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #60
81. You guys want chaperones or prison guards? My h.s. trips,
with the band, we too had chaperones, but they weren't with us every single minute. Oh, looking back, there was SO much opportunity for disaster and mayhem, but nothing ever happened. Those were simpler, somewhat safer times (early 1960s), but bad things still happened.

We had quite a bit of free time (and so did the chaperones), and no one ever thought the kids needed to be freakin' chained to the adults' wrists!

Our chaperones were (as I recall) about 1 adult per every 4 - 5 students.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. Times have changed, Eloriel
No way would I agree to go on an overnight trip with kids I teach. Too many risks.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #58
71. Now the MSM says there were 2 chaperones, and:
Police also planned to conduct forensic tests on a bloody mattress found on a beach in eastern Aruba. The mattress was found in thick brush at Grapefield beach, deputy police chief Gerold Dompig said.



http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=821509
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #51
61. We were a poor (but small) district and we had senior trips
Students raise money through various school sponsored events, which net students around $11-$12/hour (about twice as much per hour as part time work for teenagers) for their time working at these events to go towards their trip. Every year (or almost every year) the seniors go on a spring break trip that lasts around a week.
The last foreign trip happened 2 years before I became a senior. The class went to the Bahamas. The sponsoring teachers were in their twenties. Most of the chaperones were their friends instead of parents. The chaperones were unable to prevent rampant alcohol and drug use amongst the students. The irresponsible teachers ended up having to deal with the police on a few occaisions. The school administration, which is socially conservative, was not amused and cancelled the potential senior trip for the next year.
Our class got a senior trip to California. All of our time was structured. We were required to be at all the activities planned for us. The only time that we were not being watched constantly was when we were at Disney Land. That area of California was cracking down on underage drinking so no one drank (our luggage was searched ahead of time).
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. Two teachers in my district were fired a couple years ago
when they took a group of kids to New Orleans to visit colleges and two of the kids snuck out of the hotel in the middle of the night and went looking for hookers. They were arrested.
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #61
74. Having grown up...
...around folks from Mountain Brook, including ("he said sheepishly") a few of my relatives, I have a hard time believing those kids were selling Krispy Kremes or anything else to raise that money.
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sbj405 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
64. There are thousands of missing children (and adults) in this country
It always amazes me which get attention. There was recently a story about several women going missing just over the Texas border in Mexico. Didn't make news at the time, though. Then again, they weren't cute white girls.

I just don't understand what the MSM thinks plastering this on the tv and internet gets. She's on an island, clearly we can't "keep an eye out for her." Not to mention, she is an adult. She does have the ability to not return.
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dejaboutique Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
69. One of her parents is tied to the NEA
maybe that is why there is so much attention. Cant remember where I read it but I can find it if needed. It is not an excuse but I think it is common that people tied to gov. agencies get more attention. Calling her a skank is a little low. The horror she must have endured or is still enduring. I have been to both the bahamas and jamaica and the local men are VERY aggressive with white women. I can easily see how a girl that goes out into the night with no other friends and only locals can come up missing. I still dont understand why part of the highshcool trip was partying at a bar at 2am. I hope she is found.
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Lori Price CLG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
70. Well, they have to be rich, white and (at least sorta) attrative...
to get any media coverage...

Lori Price
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Sparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
72. Just because a school trip is chaperoned, doesn't mean
they'll be safe. The chaperones were probably drinking and partying with the rest of the kids. They didn't pay attention. If this girl is found harmed (or never found), I guess the parents will sue either the school or the individuals. There is no way I would be a chaperone unless I knew parents signed some waiver. We all know how teenagers are defiant.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
76. "Senior trips abroad" = Sex, drugs & rock n roll - supervision
Things like this happen all the time, only usually the girls just end up raped or beaten up.. They probably never tell their parents or officials about it.

This time it went too far, and she's probably "fish food" (It IS an island)..

I feel for her family, but just because you are a straight-A student, it doesn't mean you have common sense.

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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. Another blame the victim devotee
Sigh.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. I am NOT blaming the "victim".. just stating the obvious
Millions of kids go on these trips, and most are not killed..Some ARE, though.
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
85. And here's the other thing.....
When an African-American woman goes missing, they never receive this type of press coverage.

I don't want to come off as racist, but when a White woman goes missing, it's breaking news worthy of interrupting programs.

Black woman goes missing---nada!
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. I think it has to be a rich and reasonably photogenic white woman.
I doubt the media would be in overdrive right now if Bertha Mae Turnipseed, a trailer dweller in Palatka, Florida, were to turn up missing.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
87. How many died in Iraq today?
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
92. 1 girl leave a party with 3 local guys??? or even 3 guys she knows
(we've read too many of those stories too)
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