My son's friend is home on leave

[proud2BlibKansan]

from the navy. He was in the Persian Gulf. I asked him if any of the sailors believe in this war, if they think we are doing the right thing. He said hell no, they all call it Bush's war. None of them believe there were ever any WMDs or that Sadaam needed to be taken out. He also said they are glad they are on a boat not involved in combat because there is no way they could be killing people over there without a guilty conscience. He said they don't understand how the US soldiers in Iraq are handling this mess. He said he and the guys he is serving with just look at what they are doing as a job, just as if they were working at a convenience store or something like that. That's the only way they can survive emotionally.

He also said he doesn't know any sailor who voted for Bush. He said they were really pissed off when they heard the reports that so many enlisted military had voted for bush, no way could that be true.

[Coexist]

1. gee- why does the miliatry hate our freedoms?!

I know, the question about the military vote results is still out there as far as I am concerned.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. I know I had a hard time believing the vote results

A real hard time.

[Eloriel]

25. What vote results? I never saw or heard anything re military results

If you did, please say more (and some links would be great).

[flygal]

35. USA Today had a report that 7 out of 10

military voted for *. The poll was conducted by Army Times magazine or Stars and Stripes - I forget which one. It was not scientific - nor did it differentiate between officer and enlisted.

[EFerrari]

41. And you can bet that if there was a shred of substance behind it

Bu$hco would have it up on billboards. No effen' way.

[Walt Starr]

2. Poor kid will be on the front lines within a year

The final step before a draft will be forcing Navy and Air Force personnel to move to the Army and Marines. Count on it.

[tabasco]

6. I was reading about the failed "Blue To Green program.

The idiot neocons actually expected 27,000 Air Force and Navy people to volunteer to transfer to the Army. I'm not sure what the incentive is. So far, they have signed up 189.

Compulsive reclassifications will ruin retention, but I wouldn't put it past them.

[Walt Starr]

9. It might put off the draft until after the 2006 midterms

and that's what this admin has been about, putting off the really bad stuff until after that next election.

My expectation is they will offer a promotion by one grade if you "volunteer" or face the loss of one grade if you are "redeployed". "Redeployment" will be mandatory.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. That is only .7% of their goal.

Any business with a record that bad wouldn't last a minute.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. He said they are worried about that

and the guys he is serving with are leaving as soon as they can. None are staying beyond their initial commitment.

[Walt Starr]

11. Yeah, I expect "Stop Loss" to be applied to the Navy and Air Force

within the next month or two. On top of that, as with the Army and MArines, you are still IRR after you get out.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. What is IRR? n/t

[tabasco]

15. Individual Ready Reserves

You don't belong to a unit or anyhing but they can call you up whenever they want.

[Walt Starr]

20. Individual Ready Reserve

Once you get out, you can still be called back.

[Divernan]

14. Friend's 23 yr. son told by Army, "you'll be back."

He was in for 5 years - at least one year in Iraq, but the last few months before his discharge, stationed in Germany. I asked his Dad about how the kid was handling his war experience, and his Dad said, well this kid was always on the edge - and had gotten into several fights in Germany. He's supposed to have $70,000 he can use for education - I don't know how that works. Does the military send $$ to approved schools? But it will be difficult to get a degree if you can get called back in at any time.

His Dad knows this war is all about oil/military industrial war profits (his son enlisted before 9/11). Dad said these magnetic car "support our troops" ribbons really make him angry - he feels like ripping them off - because most of the people who plaster these on their cars don't do anything to really support the troops, like protesting cuts to VA or other vet benefits; or more importantly, opposing the waste of young American lives for Bush's profiteering buddies.

[radar]

45. If it's still the same as 10-15 yrs ago...

"He's supposed to have $70,000 he can use for education - I don't know how that works."
...He gets into the school & sends paperwork (like courses taking & degree shooting for) proving he's enrolled - then a gov't check arrives to him once a month for length of semester/classes.
Lather rinse repeat each semester....

[HawkerHurricane]

16. Can't agree.

They're cutting Navy personnel like crazy. Offering early outs, refusing to reenlist people in jobs considered 'non critical'. Believe it or not, the Navy is making it's enlistment/re-enlistment quoatas... mainly because the bar is so low.
Stop loss in navy? First they need to stop the early outs and involuntary retirements.

[Walt Starr]

19. IMO, Stop Loss WILL be applied to the Navy

hours before they have mandatory redeployment to the Army or Marine Corps.

[HawkerHurricane]

23. Can't see it...

at least, not that way.

First, you have to stop discharging them early.

Then, you have to train them... most sailors are technicians for shipboard equipment. Somehow I can't picture the army needs very many Gas Turbine Mechanics... much less Gas Turbine Electricians.

Thirdly, you have to attach them to the Marines (I can't see the Navy giving them up to the Army... I just can't). Ya see, our contracts read 'Navy'. Even if you did assign them to Army units, they'd still be sailors.

In fiscal year 2004, they discharged 40,000 sailors early... many, like myself, involutarily. A similar number is being discharged early (as in before thier contract is up) this year. They're cutting like crazy, to save money (for the army), I can't see them suddenly switching to extending them and shipping to Iraq... not without some other things happening, like a honest to gawd draft.

[Walt Starr]

26. I see this as a last ditch effort move before a draft

so they can put a draft off until after the 2006 elections.

And your contract might say Navy, but the DoD owns your ass (even yours still).

[HawkerHurricane]

30. My arse...

is subject to recall until 2014... I might say I'm retired, but the Navy (unlike any other service) doesn't retire you until the 30 year mark after your enlistment. I'm subject to recall, if they need a communications technician trained in a obsolete system that the Navy official got rid of in 2004, who suffers from high blood pressure, and is now 30lbs overweight. Recall me? Maybe. Send me aboard ship? Sure. Send me to Iraq? Why not just shoot me here, and save the round trip airfare. (actually, a stroke is more likely for me.)

[Walt Starr]

43. Other branches do the same

for officers.

Cannon foddre is cannon fodder and anything that keeps the draft off the table until after the election of 2006 will remain on the table.

[Yellow_Dog]

27. Keep in mind

The Marines are a division of the NAVY, it will just be a different assignment.

The Navy also has the SeaBee's for construction, but they also fight,

If I had a son in the Navy, and their enlistment was up, I would certainly try and convince them to get out.

[HawkerHurricane]

29. Yes

Marines are a division of the Navy, something we squids use to harass jarheads with. And a percentage of the "Marines" in Iraq are USN Corpmen, doctors, nurses, chaplains, RP's, dentists, dental techs...

Funny thing about the CB's... the construction battallions aren't doing much construction. Formed in WW2 after American civilians workering on Wake Island were executed by the Japanese, the Navy's CB's are supposed to do construction work where combat might occur... but that work in Iraq was contracted out to American civilians. CB's in Iraq are mostly doing guard duty.

So, anywho... before they sent the majority of sailors to Iraq, they'd have to teach them how to be soldiers... We're not TRAINED to be infantry.

Not saying they won't do it. Just not seeing it yet.

[Walt Starr]

44. Yup, the Marines are the Navy's Army

Just don't tell a Leatherneck that!

[HawkerHurricane]

50. Navy's Bellhops

The Marine Corps symbol...
Is a Eagle, for America
Over a Globe, for world-wide commitment
WITH AN ANCHOR SHOVED UP HIS BUTT SO HE REMEMBERS WHO HE WORKS FOR!

[hippiegranny]

47. Hawker, you're right

my son-in-law has been offered an early out - which he's taking.

[HawkerHurricane]

51. Unlike...

your son in law, I wasn't offered... I was told take 1/2 pay retirement or be tossed out with nothing.

And, since I work on a base... the Navy Times (weekly newspaper) has been having articles about how the Navy is cutting personnel... and wonderful job opportunities in the Army.

[EFerrari]

42. Do you think they're trying to redirect personnel to the Army? n/t

[HawkerHurricane]

52. See Post #6

Yes, they are. And failing.

[FreedomAngel82]

32. Question from me

Can they not stand up and fight the administration and say "hell no we won't go" like with Vietnam?? :shrug:

[Boudica the Lyoness]

28. Air force is getting like the army.

If you'd like to see what airman are being trained to do now take a look at the article titled 'Meet the Cadre' in the Patriot newspaper for Altus Air force Base. Sorry I don't know how to do links unless it's to someones email address. It can be Goggled easy using the words 'Meet the cadre The patriot Altus'.

[funflower]

38. self-delete

[LWolf]

3. My son's best friend was home last week;

he's back in Mosul this week. He's supposed to be deployed somewhere else this fall, and he's due to get out next January. He has big plans for taking up his life again. I don't know who he voted for; I do know his ideas about our role in the middle east have changed drastically since he's seen it first hand.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. This kid told me he should have listened to me.

I did try to talk him out of enlisting. Those damn recruiters got to him in high school.

[MrScorpio]

4. Believe you me, a lot troops feel the same way

But they are powerless to do anything about it.

A lot them have voted with their feet

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. My husband wondered if they were as disillusioned as

he and the guys he served with were doing the Vietnam War.

[Roland99]

17. We need more people like your sons friend writing LTTEs

and creating blogs.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. Good idea

I will suggest that to him.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Tehy won't do it

against military regs

[Fiendish Thingy]

21. something like 28% of overseas military ballots not counted...

according to Americansabroad.com (I think, I'll look for the link). Hmmmm....

[BrotherBuzz]

22. Oh, they were counted alright!!!

just before they were tossed into the circular filing system.

[Lars39]

24. I thought most of the military vote was filtered through the Pentagon.

[zann725]

33. That's what I heard too. They were counted on Pentagon 'computers.'

n/t

[Fiendish Thingy]

48. Yes, but the article I read reported that a large percentage of ballots

didn't even make it to the Pentagon computers to be "counted"...

[ngGale]

34. I do remember during the campaign soldiers...

were afraid to vote anti-Bush because Rummy wanted all votes coming through the Pentagon. I'm not sure how this turned out, but living in NC we had lots of voting machine problems in Jacksonville. Lots of military members and families, didn't seem right to me that Bush won.

[AllegroRondo]

46. There was a big push in Missouri

to allow active duty people to vote via email instead of postal service - by going through the pentagon. I believe the bill passed, no idea how many actually participated.

[EFerrari]

40. I came here for the Election Forum.

And waited and waited for the Cabal to trumpet that they'd gotten the military vote.

It never happened.

All I can think is, if they had announced the big lie, they would have a lot of empy uniforms laying around.

[FreedomAngel82]

31. Nice to hear

I only saw three reports from the election of who the group voted for. Two out of three voted for Kerry. You know good and well if Bush had the proof of all the votes for the military they would've been promoting it around like crazy. Like he was the best Commander in Chief and all that nonsense. I hope they're all staying as safe as they can (both in Iraq and other places). I only wonder what it would be like once the troops are all home for good. :\ Does he know about the Downing Street Minutes?

[housewolf]

37. Did you happen to ask him

What's it going to take for the military to stand up and start protesting this debacle?

[funflower]

39. Great post. One more nomination.

[B Calm]

49. Don't believe the right wing hype the military votes republican.

When I was in the service it was the same as now.