In all seriousness...does anyone else think Bush is mentally ill?

[OrlandoGator]

I was calling for this during the campaign, but it seemed to fall on deaf ears. How do we go about demanding an independent full medical exam on the president, including testing for mental faculties? I honestly think the man has a neurological disorder that is being concealed from the public.

This isn't a generic "Bush is so stupid, he he he" thread. I really think the man is sick and it puts the entire world in danger to have him as our sitting president.

[ananda]

1. remember the great article on..

.. malignant egophrenia?

That about sums it up.

Sue

[Theres-a]

2. We have a winner!!!!

Tell her what she's won,Bob!!!

[liberalitch]

6. Life time supply of rice-o-roni

[liberalitch]

5. Link?

Seems like I remember that too, just can't find it.

[babylonsister]

18. Try this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=245&topic_id=2702

[liberalitch]

3. yes.... prince bunny pants is nuts

[Richard D]

4. Agreed

At least a neurological disorder. Sociopathic too.

[lonestarnot]

8. Narcistic looking in the mirror at self when talks freak is sick alright!

[Occulus]

44. I guess all my Sims are sick

'cause THEY talk to themselves when they're trying to raise their charisma points in The Sims 2...

Or maybe my Sims have larger minds than *?

(THAT seems more plausible!)

[lonestarnot]

66. Are they looking into a mirror?

[elehhhhna]

7. Just ask Frist to review the video.

[Sparkly]

20. Haha!!

Good one, El! :thumbsup:

I don't think he's mentally ill per se; I agree with others who say he's got some physical degeneration of some sort and it's affecting his mental abilities in the process.

[liberalitch]

21. LOL

[Demit]

9. Yes, in all seriousness, I do. I think his condition is degenerative.

And with this administration's determination to act in secrecy and with deception, I don't think there's much we can do, except bombard our elected officials and members of the local media and hope at some point they openly address the issue.

I think GWB's mental deficiencies are probably an open secret to anyone who works with him or covers him.

[Ravenseye]

15. Definately Degenerative

Remeber that video showing the comparison in how he spoke in the Texas Gubenatorial Debates and in the Presidential debates? Serious downswing in his speech and cognitive abilities. The video quoted some doctor who viewed it and speculated that the President has presenile dementia.

Now obviously if the president has presenile dementia he shouldn't be president anymore. I don't care if he's Bush, Clinton, or Kennedy. That's one job that we can't afford to have someone with a degenerative mental disease in.

It's just one other thing that's been covered up.

[OrlandoGator]

25. YES! That video is very troubling to me.

In that gubenatorial debate, Bush sounds lucid and even demonstrates a modicum of native intelligence. When compared side-by-side with last week's alleged "press conference", it is impossible not to drop one's jaw at the contrast.

[Ravenseye]

29. Exactly

I think many Republicans still view him that way and are having a problem admiting that he has a problem. They just shrug it off, but there's something wrong with him.

Don't get me wrong, i'm partisan, but i'm honestly worried about the President. I just hope that he's getting good care for his illness, and that Cheney and Rove aren't parading him around to his own detriment.

[Richard Steele]

43. Here it is (Quicktime format)

http://www.adbuzz.com/bushbuzz/
(click on BrainTenYrs*.mov)
Definitely a mental degeneration going on.

And it's happening faster; he's MUCH worse today than when this video was made.

[Arugula Latte]

62. They see his mental illness as Bush just being

"a regular guy." Yeah, a regular Connecticut-born rich cokehead drunkard who never truly earned anything in his whole life and whose family is a bunch of murderous industrialist thugs going back decades.

[Imagine My Surprise]

51. I was blown away by it when I saw it

[morningglory]

32. Reagan had a severe mental deficiency, Alzheimer's while in the

office and he was one of the greatest president to ever live. Sarcasm off.

[Gormy Cuss]

47. Or some other brain deficiency.

I've seen it suggested that Reagan suffered an undisclosed brain trauma after the assasination attempt and that the Alzheimer's came much later. Most of the time he was in the Oval Office he appeared to be acting, as if someone figured out he could still read scripts but was no good at speaking extemporaneously.

I hate to speculate on W's medical condition, but that boy just ain't right.

[Mist]

41. No problem- *'s not REALLY the pres. anyway -

FWIW, yeah, I think he's literally brain-damaged (heavy drinking and drug use for a couple of decades will do that).

[Imagine My Surprise]

50. Does Reagan ring a bell?

[amber dog democrat]

38. There are too many with vested interests

who put this fool up to be their front man, while they work to sabotage the republic and the best interests of common peple world wide - plus it helps the top out of sight rich get even richer.

[Jackpine Radical]

10. Depends on what you mean by "mentally ill."

Personality disordered, certainly. He formally meets the DSM-4 criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder with antisocial features. It's hard to go much beyond that from this distance.

[dog_lovin_dem]

53. Bingo!

My diagnosis, exactly.

[Verve]

11. I don't think he's mentally ill...

just brain damaged!

[OrlandoGator]

12. What's really bothering me lately is the third-person self references.

He's saying "the president" this and "George W. Bush" that way too much for my taste.

[Jackpine Radical]

13. A common narcissistic trait.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

17. At the end,

Big Dick Nixon spoke of himself in the third person.

Always a bad sign.

[Auntie Bush]

83. So did Bob Dole

[Art_from_Ark]

39. The American version of the royal 'We'?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

14. There are two books you might want to read

Both of them quite compelling. Theorizing on Bush's mental state - the first, especially, I found very easy to support: "Bush On The Couch," by Justin Frank, MD - http://tinyurl.com/aapdu

The second - "The Bush Dyslexicon," by Mark Crispin Miller - http://tinyurl.com/8pnck - isn't so much an examination of his mental state as of what his use of language signifies. Another very telling work, I think.

[Atlas Mugged]

16. I've always thought he had some serious mental problems

Where does one even begin??? Besides the ones already mentioned, there's one that is overlooked: impotency. While impotency in itself is not necessarily a mental problem, it can manifest itself as such, and this idiot has it in spades.

[lonestarnot]

22. Good point!

[arwalden]

19. Psychotic (God "Talks" To Him) And DT's (With His Finger On The Button!)

It's frightening.

He's a lunatic.

[sweetheart]

23. "consumption" is a disease

It is more than bush, but a whole culture that elevates "satiating
desire" as the core value of its existance. Then greed is elevated
over all other intents, and we get criminal administrations that have
no other ethos besides taking whatever they can steal.

[Zen Democrat]

24. I think he's just slow. We know he's dyslexic and he probably has

additional learning disabilities.

[alfredo]

58. Isn't rigidity a trait of people who suffer dyslexia?

Isn't that rigidity spun as being resolute?

[Roland99]

26. Years of cocaine and alcohol abuse.

Did we ever hear of the results of his physical that was delayed until after the election?

[Jamison]

33. Not just those.

At one time I think he had to have done every drug under the sun...seriously. He reminds me of some of the wasteoids I used to know of that did nothing but get high everyday.

[DemBeans]

27. I do believe he's mentally ill

I think he lives in a complete dissociative state, and I've thought that for years. That's probably why he's "sleeping well...at peace" in the middle of a brutal vicious war of his making.

[murray hill farm]

28. that is an insult to the mentally ill!!

he is just a looser...a puppet....and a fool....not to mention a huge embarrassment to us all.

[OrlandoGator]

31. I'm not holding him less accountable for his actions...

...but it is rather clear to anyone paying attention that this man is not in complete control of what comes out of his mouth.

[opihimoimoi]

35. Yup, Agreed.....

[Maraya1969]

30. I really think he is drinking, seriously

Alcoholism used to be considered an incurable disease. It was only when Alcoholics Anonymous came into being around 1935 that alcoholics started to recover. I would say that all or almost all rehabilitation centers for alcoholics push their patients to go to AA.

Remember those pictures of him with all the bruises and cuts on his face? I think the man drinks when he can and then is pulled together by his handlers. I also think that is why he can't talk.

There was a celebrity years ago; I think it was Charlie Chaplin but I'm not sure. He had people following him around to keep him from drinking.

[Imagine My Surprise]

48. AND NO ONE EVER QUESTIONS THE PICS OF HIS NOSE RED!!!!

[Kansas Wyatt]

49. Could be the reason he spends so much time at Crawford.

It would be a Hell of a lot easier for his handlers to conceal his drinking binges and/or continued drug abuse. It is also odd that all of his mishaps (injuries) occur at his fake ranch, where prying cameras and bystanders are removed.

[Double T]

34. The entire republican leadership is afflicted with an....

...antisocial personality disorder, for which there is no cure. Therefore, we must vote these insane individuals out of office.

[Maraya1969]

36. Maybe this is why so many people still love the man

The situation is very analogous to when seemingly good, normal, loving Germans
supported Hitler, believing he was a good leader trying to help them. The German people didn't
realize that the virulent pathogen malignant egophrenia had taken possession of Hitler and was
incarnating itself through him. By not seeing this and supporting Hitler, they became agents
used by this non-local, deadly disease to propagate itself. This was a collective psychosis, and
this is what is taking place in our country right now.
This is exactly what Jung was warning us about when he said "The gigantic catastrophes
that threaten us today are not elemental happenings of a physical or biological order, but
psychic events. To a quite terrifying degree we are threatened by wars and revolutions which
are nothing other than psychic epidemics. At any moment several millions of human beings may
be smitten with a new madness, and then we shall have another world war or devastating
revolution. Instead of being at the mercy of wild beasts, earthquakes, landslides, and
inundations, modern man is battered by the elemental forces of his own psyche."

[CJCRANE]

37. Self-hypnosis.

I think the neocons have some kind of self-hypnosis thing going on whereby they repeat the same things to themselves over and over so that they think they are true.

I have experienced this myself and it's very difficult to get out of especially if you're surrounded by people who reinforce it.

Kind of like a cult/brainwashing.

[Botany]

40. Something is wrong w/ him no doubt .....

...... from spreading bull shit on toast and calling it "country style apple
butter" to his widely inappropriate behavior right down to the left
corner of his mouth sagging the man has problems. Ever see the picture
of him punching another player in the face when playing rugby?

Why does he not ride a horse? Ever hear of horse sense? They know
when you are stupid and try to mess w/ you all the time.

[Triana]

42. Just had coffee w/ friends last night who made same comment...

...they SERIOUSLY think bu$h is a 'blank slate' as they put it. He's retarded, or otherwise mentally ill or mentally challenged.

Yep.

[Imagine My Surprise]

45. Yes, because he is an acting-out, out of control dry drunk...

While I have my own caveats about AA and 12-step work (having gotten "sober" 10 years ago but no longer doing the meeting thang), I do believe that for many people, the 12 step route is at least a necessary stepping stone to reality/realization.

In Bush's case, he presumably cold turkeyed it after a chat with Billy Graham. (I'm dubious.)

Anyway, there is no doubt but that the BEHAVIOUR of the addict/alcoholic continues UNLESS some modification occurs. Pretty damn obvious this has NOT occurred with asshole.

I do NOT believe (having once been a bible banging fundy preacher) that a so-called religious conversion in itself changes this BEHAVIOUR.


To make matters worse, most people who "get sober" don't have a family fortune and political dynasty to fall back on.

Addicts/alcoholics tend to often be delusional even on a good day.
But they don't have the "authority" to fuck things up on a world scale as this jerk does.

I will also say here that I do not believe Bush is a Christian. There I said it. Having read some intersting stuff about Hitler and the Thules, I believe Bush presents an image to the public yet holds a very different face -- his true face.

If anyone thinks this is conspiracy theory crap, I would urge you to do a google search for "Hiter" and "Thule" and see what comes up.

I am not saying Bush is a Thule. I am saying he is an out of control, acting out dry drunk and the damage will continue.

[assclown_bush]

67. "Severe Insult To The Brain"

Is how doctors refer to alcoholism. The damage is irreversible. I am sure that Bush is suffering from the effects of his years of alcoholism and drug abuse. Actually, he is enjoying the effects. It is WE who are suffering because of it.

[Dervill Crow]

73. * reminds me of my dad when he developed dementia.

Years of drinking caught up with him in the form of an organic brain syndrome. Even in the earlier stages, he lied pretty much constantly about things there was no reason to lie about and seemed to have no idea that what he said wasn't true.

[imax2268]

46. mentally ill...

no...not really...I just think that he's really dumb...

I also think that all the trouble that he has gotten himself into all his life his parents bailed him out of it...especially daddy...

He is a typical product of a dysfunctional rich family...

[fortyfeetunder]

52. FAS manifesting itself?

Not that I am trying to place any diagnosis on him, but it makes me wonder if his mama had one too many martinis when she was in the family way with him.

I was reading stories on fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS)and the effects on verbal and motor skills, and wondered, gee, is it possible this man had this problem? Now we see the effects on older people.

A few examples: the klutziness, his inability to talk coherently and logically, his battles with the bottle (and I don't think he has stopped).

FAS manifests itself differently from person to person, but from looking at this person's biography just makes me wonder...this guy is not all there....

[Old_Fart]

56. I agree

You took the words right out of my mouth. His eyes are very small and he has the characteristics that are described as symptoms of FAS.

[Jackpine Radical]

59. If you're being serious, I disagree with a FAS Dx.

He really doesn't have the physiognomy. Also, the IQ concomitant with FAS is about 60-70.

As for manifesting differently in different people, that is true of FAE (Fetal Alcohol Effects; i.e. partial FAS syndrome), but not really of FAS, which in its own way is pretty recognizable when the full syndrome is present.

FAS is really quite rare, something like 1 per 5 or 10k births, iirc. I've never seen published numbers for FAE, no doubt because it's so hard to definitively Dx.

[fortyfeetunder]

60. True, perhaps a FAE

but then, what was Dubya's reported IQ?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

54. no not mentally ill...just alcohol/drug abuse induced BRAIN DAMAGED

[Old_Fart]

55. My opinion

Bush is a deranged serial killer that gets off on watching people die. Anyone remember Karla Faye Tucker?

[Chicago1]

57. Narcissistic Personality Disorder & Substance Issues

I saved the URL's of the DU Posts on my blog and have the articles that came with it. The URL is http://usaworkstories.blogspot.com.

Below is the heading for the post.

Corporate America's Executives & pResident CuckooBananas: How they're behavior IS THE SAME: Bush Diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder


Waiting for the IMPEACHMENT WHILE THE SCANDALS KEEP UNFOLDING
America's Work Stories
http://usaworkstories.blogspot.com
[e-mail]

[amazona]

61. he's a substance abuser

There is no mechanism under the United States constitution for removing brain-damaged presidents, as we've seen with Reagan or Wilson, much less the garden variety alcoholics like Grant or Bush. Caligula's daddy was actively puking his guts up on the Japanese prime minister as a result of his drug use, and we couldn't get him replaced in office for lack of function. Going after Caligula himself on medical grounds is a lost cause. Not having a brain is not grounds for removal from the U.S. presidency.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

63. Partial complex temporal lobe seizures w/o loss of consciousness

Partial complex TL seizures would help explain his series of "accidents" and hyper-religiosity. I also suspect some congenital brain issues, though these are always hard to pinpoint without the benefit of early childhood medical records. My guess would be some congenital issue with his left temporal lobe, which now may the region of his partial complex seizure locus.

Add to the mix possible ischemic white matter damage secondary to cocaine & alcohol abuse, which would help explain his general "slowness" in information processing speed and verbal retrieval.

Oh, and then there's the personality disorders, of which he demonstrates a mix of sociopathic and narcissistic features (i.e., Cluster B personality disorders).

JB

[Jackpine Radical]

65. I'd say "Amen" to that, but everyone would probly miss the pun.

Unlike Daniel Amen, I don't necessarily assume localized brain damage as the necessary explanation for all behavior. First, do we even know that he's hyper-religious? I think he fakes it for the mob. My evidence is all those times when he let his hair down & made cracks about "pussy" (no pun intended of course), is known to curse, etc. in private, a habit of leaving wads of gum wherever he feels like it, smirking at supposedly solemn moments, & similar data suggesting simple hypocrisy.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

68. Good points...however being hyper-religious doesn't mean being pious.

Your valid points on hypocritical behavior go for a large majority of the Southern Protestants I know. This type of personal opportunism and using religion as a social network speaks more to Bush's sociopathy.

I would add that I have seen a number of hyper-religious TLE patients that were far less than saintly. I think the hyper-religiosity in some of these epilepsy patients is less about god and more about a obessive fixation on a belief system affording opportunities for ritualized behavior.

Regards,
JB

[Jackpine Radical]

77. Do you know Michael Persinger's work at Laurentian University?

He was able to induce temporary "oceanic," ecstatic experiences in people by disrupting temporal function & thereby mimicking TLE. I think that may be one of the roots of hyper-religiosity. Also, since temporal lobe dysfunction seems involved in various kinds of perseverative behaviors, that might be related to Bush's inability to break set. Once on a track, he won't learn that it isn't working anymore.

I wouldn't by any means rule out some kind of temporal lobe dysfunction (needn't be ictal, does it?), but I'm not sure we need it to account for the data. "Consistent with" isn't synonymous with "demonstrates the presence of."

Anyway, if you want to look for some real problems in that guy, I would imagine that the right orbitofrontal cortex is pretty deficient in dendritic elaboration. That's the area of the cortex that develops when the infant is first being socialized by the primary caregiver (PC talk for "mother"), and if the proper kind of babbling, cooing, mirroring, etc. don't happen, this area of the brain doesn't develop normally, and that deficit is the neurobiological substrate of attachment disorders, the most severe form of which is psychopathy.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

78. Interesting work.

Though, I'd put more weight in frontotemporal dysfunction as a correlate of perseverative behavior deficits.

Does Shrub have a documented history of head injury (not counting pretzel and recent bike incidents)? I wouldn't be surprised to hear of multiple concussive injuries.

What I wouldn't give to get my hands on high-res T1-weighted and FLAIR MRI scans of Shrub's current neuroanatomy.

JB

[Jackpine Radical]

80. I was thinking specifically about the category test,

which measures perseveration but has been shown empirically to be predictive of temporal damage. The Wisconsin Card Sorting Test, on the other hand, is also primarily a measure of perseveration and predicts frontal & prefrontal damage. I never have really "gotten it" about why the two tests, seemingly so similar, relate to different brain areas. Perhaps the WCST concept-learning task is somewhat more abstract...

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

82. The Category Test is a multidimensional measure...sensitive, not specific

I actually did some of my dissertation on the CT. The task demands are quite different for some of the subtests and a factor analysis of subtest performance in normals suggests 3 discrete factors. Of these, spatial/perceptual and logical abstraction account for about 60% of task variance. Because of the multidimensionality of the CT, it is very sensitive to organic deficit but not terribly specific. The WCST, on the other hand, is not as broad in it's task demands lending to better specificity (i.e., dorsolateral PFC).

BTW - it's good to know that there's a fellow "neuro-nerd" out there in liberal land. Thank the lord, I'm not alone.

JB

[Chicago1]

69. You must be a clinician of some sort

Your post was outstanding. You sound like a PhD or a Psychiatrist. I've heard other clinicians talk about temporal lobe epilepsy and that's what they think he has also.

Waiting for the IMPEACHMENT WHILE THE SCANDALS KEEP UNFOLDING
America's Work Stories
http://usaworkstories.blogspot.com
[e-mail]

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

76. Caught. My alter ego lives and works in the clinical neurosciences.

It would be interesting to know if Shrub's medical records indicate any EEGs...but, then again, this kind of thing would be expunged from public scrutiny.

In Shrub's favor, he's in very good cardiovascular health, so any damage done during his cocaine years is probably being held in check with no further damage.

Does anyone know of the existence of Barbara's pregnancy records? There may be details within hinting at possible congenital or teratogenic problems.

JB (MD., Ph.D.)

[ailsagirl]

71. And to top it all off, he's morally bankrupt n/t

[ailsagirl]

72. And to top it all off, he's morally bankrupt and socially retarded

And I'm NOT trying to be funny

[Lisa]

84. I wonder -- Bush having some kind of "spell" ...

... could explain why he suddenly stopped flying planes, not long after his (expensive) training period ... and the higher-ups didn't seem to be too concerned about his not showing up.

Bush is notoriously reluctant to talk about ailments -- it wouldn't surprise me if he were afraid that it would be looked at as some sign of weakness (or, as his base might view it, divine disapproval?). He hasn't confronted the issue of alcoholism or his possible learning disability -- until recently these also had a stigma about them (and still do in some quarters, e.g. all those neo-con outbursts about liberals "coddling" children who are merely "lazy").

[ComerPerro]

64. No. He is just an asshole

[ailsagirl]

70. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Well put...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[lonestarnot]

74. Well that tooooo!

[EFerrari]

75. Exactly. To be mentally ill, you first must have a mind. n/t

[OrlandoGator]

79. See the Texas gubenatorial debate videos...

...Bush actually once did have a brain of his own.

[Mairead]

81. Understand that 'mentally ill' is a culture- and class-dependent construct

Any ordinary person who behaved with the lack of concern for the wellbeing of others that many of the wealthy elites display would be diagnosed. But money excuses much.

By the standards of his class, Bush's behavior is apparently considered generally within the limits of 'acceptable'. If it weren't, he'd already be under supervision somewhere. (Although, I must admit, it might be that he is 'under supervision somewhere'.)

[RobbinsdaleDem]

85. Alcoholic psychosis.

My dad was an alcoholic, and by the time he was 40-years-old, he was paranoid. He also lied to us so often, he began to believe his own lies. And nothing was ever my dad's fault. Somebody else was always to blame for his problems. My dad never apologized for anything. My dad died 25 years ago, but I still remember how he acted in his later years, and the shrub reminds me a lot of him. Even if the shrub really did give up the booze at age 40, as he said he did, he'd probably already done an awful lot of damage to his brain.

[davekriss]

86. Yes, personality disordered (at the least)

Anti-social Personality Disordered.
Narcissitic Personality Disordered.
Classic sociopath on full phony display.