Policy/Message/Party Discipline: Good or Bad?

[Stinky The Clown]

Over the last few days, we've seen rhetorical dust-ups involving Dean, Kerry, Edwards, and Biden. I'm not singling them out, except as the latest examples. In any given week there are four others. Or twenty others.

While the Repubs 'go to church' once a week and get their talking points and stick to them like flypaper doomed bugs, our side is continually all over the lot. The circular firing squad is no myth. We live it. Daily.

Is a little party discipline a good thing or does it stifle freedom?

Which one is what the party constituents want?

Discipline or Freedem?

Which one is good for the party?

Discipline or freedom?

If you say discipline. how do you account for divergent views?

If you say freedom, how do you expect to get a coherent, cohesive message out?

There has to be a sweet spot.

Where is it and how do we get there?

[lapfog_1]

1. Unfortunately, I think that this behavior is inevitable

one, because we are democrats and progressives, hence, by nature,
free and independent thinkers... so "marching in lockstep" is not
in our nature (or rather, not in the nature of people who tend to
gravitate to the democratic / progressive ideals)

two, the democrats are currently a minority party... none of those
elected (Dems) have any real power... no bills to sponsor (unless
co-authored with a repuke), no committees to chair, no agencies to
run or departments to command. For people who aspire to be in
power, serving as the "whipping posts" of those actually in power
must be very frustrating. This leads to lashing out at each other
rather than joining together to fight the common foe. Human nature,
I suppose.

I doubt there is much we can do, except hope that the American people
become tired of one party rule and decide to return some part of the
government to the democrats... which, if history is a guidepost, is
very likely to happen. Baring Diebold, of course.

[MelissaB]

2. I agree. I just want us to be on the same page this week about the DSM.

I hope that isn't asking too much.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. I fear it *is* asking too much

We have 'them' who see the political brass ring in dealing with it with strategy A and we have 'those' who see the political brass ring in dealing with it with Strategy Z.

You and I, in the meantime, are wishing they'd **all** use Strategy L, M, N , O, or P.

We need a party ass kicker.

[Stinky The Clown]

3. It saddens me to think you're right

I'd much rather we leave our (elected Dems') personal foibles behind and get to work with **some** strategic thinking.

Freedom is on the march ... and if we're not better at getting our shit together, that freedom's gunna march right over us and trample us to death.

But I agree with what you said. I just can't accept that it is all we can do. We have NO CHOICE but to do better.

[Eric J in MN]

4. I don't want Democrats to be forced to follow a party line on rhetoric,

but I can still disagree with specific statements, like Joe Biden undermining Howard Dean.

[MelissaB]

6. I don't either. We are all entitled to our opinions, but please let them

get it together for the DSM. I think there should be talking points on this one, and they should know the answers to the spin before it starts...and it will...already has. Watch MTP for a good example. If the repukes repeat that everybody who has looked at the DSM has discredited it enough, people will believe. They are making their own reality.

[ultraist]

7. I don't want Dems to follow a strict talking points party line either

We are not lock step brown shirts and should welcome some open dialogue.

I disagree with Dean's statement but I DO support Dean.

I think the sweet spot is where Dems agree on our core values and major issues, such as supporting pro DEM policies that promote our core values--such as supporting programs that help our most needy and our middle class.

We need some diversity and should be allowed to explore all options. A Jim Jones cult, we are not!

It is the MSM that is blowing this out of proportion. They LOVE to paint our party as weak and full of infighting. Fuck the MSM! We ALLOW some dissent and dialogue in our party; unlike the brainwashed Repukes.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. "Fuck the MSM! We ALLOW some dissent and dialogue in our party"

Yeah .... tue .... but if the MSM controls our message, what are we left with?

We need some commonality among all of us and force the MSM (by our message being atleast consistent) to focus on that, cuz that's all we give 'em.

One problem with Dems, from top to bottom, is a propensity to grandstand.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. The parties don't lead. They follow the votes and the money.

The few, very few, decent politicians are the ones who break ranks and speak out. Wayne Morse comes to mind. William Fullbright is another.

Today, most politicians bow to the moneybags who finance their careers and the polls that usually scare the hell out of them and keep them tame.

The "leadership" punishes dissenters by cutting off funds and support.

The only way to foil the "leadership" is for the public to show their support to the dissenters. Dean didn't get to his position because the "party" wanted him. It was because the party was terrified of losing what remains of the left wing and the resulting uproar.

You want to change the party? Vote the issues rather than the party.

[Pithy Cherub]

9. Transcending to an inspired ideal

from a modest message requires very unique talents and special gifts. Without courage first you can not practice any other virtues, the truth, courtesy of Maya Angelou. An inspired ideal, that spawns messages that are truthful, make sense and hopeful seems to be beset by challenges of who is in charge of that message process.

The courage of our convictions has caused many of us here to lead ourselves. Politicians with skills that are now dated, fail to get our attention or sustained loyalty, but because the media can call the tried and tue they can get on TV or interviewed. That doesn't make them the boss of you or me.

Those elected DEMS that walk in where Angels fear to tread - CONYERS, BOXER, to name two are now the gold standard. This is disturbing to those pols who are accustomed to a more mundane, easily swayed and less ferocious populace. The Kings and Queens of soggy milquetoast and the spines of liquid butter are casting about for a safe plate full of donations. The traditional reward for a safe message.

Who is the framer of the inspired DEM ideal that translates into multiple messages with many messengers. The message is about discipline because it is faithful to the inspired ideal. The fights would then become about accountability.