BULLSHIT ALERT! Arm yourself to counteract Pug "spin" on the DSM

[LunaC]

The Pugs have a tendency to twist the Truth and sometimes go to the extreme of just making shit up. Once the meme is implanted in the dittohead's lizard brain, they keep on repeating it until they believe it's true. There is a classic pre-emptive Rove mind-fuck in the works and I want everyone to be appropriately armed to be on the counterttack.

As mentioned on another thread, (nice catch, Crisco) the Pugs plan on trotting out H.R. 4655 signed by President Clinton named "The Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998". They will claim that this gave President Bush all of the legal recourse necessary for the war.

They will purport to quote directly from the bill: "Iraq Liberation Act of 1998" declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government. "

Don't be fooled by the selective tunnel-vision rhetoric.......

This bill is to support the IRAQI OPPOSITION. It never came close to opening the door for direct U.S. military intervention.

And here's another handy tidbit to know.....Clinton may have signed the bill but he never funded it! Why? Because a huge ortion would heve gone to Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress

Here's a few quotes to throw back,......

Speaking on behalf of the bill in the Senate, Trent Lott said:

"The United States has many means at its disposal to support the liberation of Iraq. At the height of the Cold War, we supported freedom fighters in Asia, Africa and Latin America willing to fight and die for a democratic future. We can and should do the same now in Iraq.

"This year, Congress has already provided $5 million to support the Iraqi political opposition. We provided $5 million to establish Radio Free Iraq . We will provide additional resources for political support in the FY 1999 Foreign Operations Appropriations Act, including $3 million for the Iraqi National Congress

"Enactment of this bill will go farther. It requires the President to designate at least one Iraqi opposition group to receive U.S. military assistance. It defines eligibility criteria such a group or groups must meet. Many of us have ideas on how the designation process should work. I have repeatedly stated that the Iraqi National Congress has been effective in the past and can be effective in the future. They represent the broadest possible base of the opposition. There are other groups that are currently active inside Iraq: the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan ,the Kurdish Democratic Party and the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq The State Department seems to believe there are more than 70 opposition groups, many of which do not meet the criteria in H.R. 4655. Many barely even exist or have no political base. They should not be considered for support. We should also be very careful about considering designation of groups which do not share our values or which are simply creations of external forces or exile politics, such as the Iraqi Communist Party or the Iraqi National Accord.

"This is an important step. Observers should not misunderstand the Senate's action. Even though this legislation will pass without controversy on an unanimous voice vote, it is a major step forward in the final conclusion of the Persian Gulf war. In 1991, we and our allies shed blood to liberate Kuwait. Today, we are empowering Iraqis to liberate their own country."


Jesse Helms Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, commented:

"This bill will begin the long-overdue process of ousting Saddam. It will not send in U.S. troops or commit American forces in any way. Rather, it harkens back to the successes of the Reagan doctrine, enlisting the very people who are suffering most under Saddam's yoke to fight the battle against him."


According to Senator Bob Kerrey

"Second, this bill is not a device to involve the U.S. military in operations in or near Iraq. The Iraqi revolution is for Iraqis, not Americans, to make. The bill provides the Administration a portent new tool to help Iraqis toward this goal, and at the same time advance America's interest in a peaceful and secure Middle East.



http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Iraq_Liberation_Act_of_1998

[dogday]

1. This Bill is a policy, not a mandate to war, that simple.

[slor]

2. Nice post...

and you are absolutely right. Be prepared for the spin and fight it. Let the Impeachment Begin!

[Disturbed]

5. It's a Left Wing Conspiracy to bring down the Bush Regime.

This is being tried as the counter. The Left Wing is bringing up Torture and War Crimes and now the Downing Street Minutes to bring down the Bush Regime.

This battle will be bloody and hard fought. Will the Dems be able to frame the battle or allow the Fascists, as they often do, to frame the issues?

[LunaC]

10. If he hedn't fucked it up so badly

We wouldn't have any ammunition to throw at him. WE aren't making stuff up, just throwing it in their faces.
Waaaaaa-waaaaaa.....crybabies.

[AuntiBush]

21. But it was "SURE ALRIGHT" to take down Clinton over a BJ!

[drm604]

29. A simple response to "It's a left wing conspiracy".

Just say: "Since when is pointing out the truth a conspiracy? These things are true."

This moves the debate away from arguing about whether or not it's a left wing conspiracy, and towards arguing about whether or not the accusations are true. This plays into their weakness and into our strength. The facts are on our side and they know that they can't win if the debate is about the real issues, that's why they're trying to shift it into a debate about the motives of the left wing.
Don't let them do this! Take control of the debate!

[Sleepless In NY]

7. LunaC... great post

I always thought Clinton's "regime change" was meant to come from within Iraq, not for us to invade. And maybe I'm wrong on this & please correct me if I am...but didn't Clinton succeed in keeping Saddam contained? It's obvious now, Saddam wasn't able to develop anymore WMDS. And Saddam certainly wasn't "invading" anyone when we invaded Iraq. You're right its just more bushit from the "right". I Just hope all the democrats get on the same page when this is brought up. Bush invaded Iraq, not Clinton & given what's going on there now, I think it was wise Clinton didn't..he seemed to achieve results without a war. When does bush take responsibilty for his own actions?

[LunaC]

14. Yes, sanctions WERE working

But those sanctions put the PNAC business interests at risk ESPECIALLY when Saddam turned his back on the U.S. Dollar and accepted only Euros as payment for his oil in November 2000. This had the potential of seriously destabilizing the U.S. economy and the PNAC considered this an hostile act of aggression towards them. (see link in sig line for details.)

[wtmusic]

3. Helpful also to pull out Junior's "war is a last resort" quotes

there are at least ten of them.

[wtmusic]

4. Text of bill

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c105:1:./temp/~c105OTvyzW::

[wtmusic]

6. Unfortunately their "direct quote" from the bill...isn't

Damn, they're getting sloppy. Their version:

"It should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government."

The actual bill:

"It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

"seek to" vs. "support efforts". Just a few little words...

:rofl:

[Goldeneye]

18. Isn't that a little ...unethical of them?

no surprises I guess.

[AuntiBush]

20. Aww... "The Bigger They Are, The Harder They Shall Fall!"

And...

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive!"

Remember as a child, when you were told not to lie.
Obviously, it's immorally wrong, but remember being told that 1 lies leads to another lie and so forth, and so on...

After awhile, you've woven yourself in so deep you begin to forget all those lies.

"It all comes out in the wash, eventually."

Here's hoping we get a clean laundry list ASAP!

[peacetalksforall]

8. Be ready...that means having ready a copy of the above -

it's source - (repeated)



http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Iraq_Liberation_Act_of_1998


And THIS - A summary of the Resolution they are going to try to use

"H.R.4655
Title: To establish a program to support a transition to democracy in Iraq.
Sponsor: Rep Gilman, Benjamin A. (introduced 9/29/1998) Cosponsors (1)
Related Bills: H.R.4664, S.2525
Latest Major Action: Became Public Law No: 105-338
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUMMARY AS OF:
10/5/1998--Passed House, amended. (There is 1 other summary)

Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 - Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government.

Authorizes the President, after notifying specified congressional committees, to provide to the Iraqi democratic opposition organizations: (1) grant assistance for radio and television broadcasting to Iraq; (2) Department of Defense (DOD) defense articles and services and military education and training (IMET); and (3) humanitarian assistance, with emphasis on addressing the needs of individuals who have fled from areas under the control of the Hussein regime. Prohibits assistance to any group or organization that is engaged in military cooperation with the Hussein regime. Authorizes appropriations.

Directs the President to designate: (1) one or more Iraqi democratic opposition organizations that meet specified criteria as eligible to receive assistance under this Act; and (2) additional such organizations which satisfy the President's criteria.

Urges the President to call upon the United Nations to establish an international criminal tribunal for the purpose of indicting, prosecuting, and imprisoning Saddam Hussein and other Iraqi officials who are responsible for crimes against humanity, genocide, and other criminal violations of international law.

Expresses the sense of the Congress that once the Saddam Hussein regime is removed from power in Iraq, the United States should support Iraq's transition to democracy by providing humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people and democracy transition assistance to Iraqi parties and movements with democratic goals, including convening Iraq's foreign creditors to develop a multilateral response to the foreign debt incurred by the Hussein regime."

and it's source:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d105:HR04655:@@@D&summ2=m&

There is nothing about war as we know Bush and PNAC intended and as we sorrowfully know. This resolution is all about support for Iraq's own people to do something on their own.

This may be their biggest lie of all.

Be ready. Now we know why they use the word democracy in every other sentence.

[AuntiBush]

22. While they've DRAINED us of our own (Democracy)

[meti57b]

28. That appears to define specifically what we can do and does not allow war

at all.

[acmavm]

9. It really doesn't matter one whit what Bill Clinton signed, thought, or

did. It's sort of like when we tried to tell my Mom that we should be able to do something because this or that person got to do it. She'd whip out the old "and if (name here) jumped off the Mormon Bridge does that mean you should do it to?". It's all about responsibility, personal responsibility.

Oh and by the way, Clinton didn't justify his actions with a boat load of lies and deceit like some other people in a different administration did? I mean those speeches by bush**, Powell, Rummy, Wolfie, Dickie. They were all blatant, intentional lies to deceive.

[Just Me]

11. How does that justify lying to and betraying the American people?

It doesn't.

Clinton lied about adultery. No American life was KILLED DEAD from that lie. No American dollar was spent (except to prosecute the lie about adultery) compared to THREE BILLION DOLLARS which have made their way into the leadership's corporacrat pockets.

The BFEE/neoCONs EXPLOITED the American people by their lies. Clinton's lie is like a choirboy's swearing ("shit") compared to the BFEE/neoCON's betrayal and exploitation of the American people's blood and treasure.

[Gman]

12. The key to the resolution is this:

SEC. 8. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.

Nothing in this Act shall be construed to authorize or otherwise speak to the use of United States Armed Forces (except as provided in section 4(a)(2)) in carrying out this Act.

and... section 4(a) (2) reads:

(2) MILITARY ASSISTANCE- (A) The President is authorized to direct the drawdown of defense articles from the stocks of the Department of Defense, defense services of the Department of Defense, and military education and training for such organizations.

and (2) is constrained by previous sections that refer to assistance to Iraqi groups that sought to overthrow Saddam. So, we would probably provide arms to these approved groups as well as military training and humanitarian assistance.

and kick and nominated.

[burrowowl]

17. Thanks for KEY

Kick!

[wtmusic]

23. Xlnt Gman

good find :thumbsup:

[peacetalksforall]

13. In one way it will be good if they use this because they will get caught..

the press won't fall for something this stupid or show their partisan hand to the degree that would be required to distort, omit, defend and add to the lies.

Time to start sending the the facts - AGAIN.

[Gman]

15. Ha! Fox will fall for it and run with it as long and far as they can

[LunaC]

16. " It will not send in U.S. troops or commit American forces in any way."

so said Jesse Helms Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee.


Remember that one quote and you're good to go!

[wookie294]

19. Thanks, I saved your quotes and link on my computer !!

Armed with info!

[magellan]

24. Also remember, PNAC sent Clinton a letter in '98

...urging him to invade Iraq. Clinton ignored the letter and did not invade Iraq, further demonstrating the intent of this bill was to support the Iraqi opposition in bringing about regime change WITHOUT US military intervention.

1998 PNAC letter to Clinton

(Do note the signatories on this letter if you haven't seen it before!)

[oasis]

25. Now Clinton has credibility with right wingers if it can bail Bush out of

his impeachment peril.

[peacetalksforall]

26. Does anyone know if Kerry, Conyers, Reid, Pelosi, Clinton, & Gore

(and crazy mavericks like Leiberman) know on this Sunday evening that they are going to try to use HR 4655 to knock Kerry down?

[Vyan]

36. They might try it on Kerry...

but I think he knows better, since he's one of the few people in Congres who actually seems to bother reading what they sign.

Vyan

[oxbow]

27. I sent out an alert

to afterdowningstreet.org when this story first came out. Maybe someone should email em this thread too, as it's very informative!

[halobeam]

30. Maybe we should all email this thread?

I am doing this already. Many emails get skipped, or take a while to read, I would guess. How can we be sure they get this information immediately? Not that I don't believe they have it, but it can only help.

[LunaC]

33. Kerry would have known about the Senate version of the bill

since he probably voted on it so I'm assuming he can defend himself extemporaneously. But having those quotes available can give him extra ammunition. If this becomes the dust-up that we hope, there will ample time and many heated discussions to get the facts on record.

[halobeam]

31. I emailed some, but couldn't believe I'm having problems

getting an email of this thread over to Kerry. What's with his email? Nice timing for something to go down with his email, wouldn't you say? I sound so paranoid, don't I?

Maybe it's just late and it's me, but can someone else try to email this thread to him... letting him know in the comments section, the number of the "bill" and what it's for? This is frustrating me to no end.

Thanks.

[LunaC]

32. Conyers "snitch" email link was snafu too

when i sent him a heads-up the other day about PNAC 101 as the background motivation leading to the DSM and putting it all in clearer perspective. Funny how these things happen all at the same time, eh?

[Melodybe]

34. kick!

[Vyan]

35. You are correct, but

this infromation isn't new. The Iran Liberation Act actually was mention with HJ. 114 (Bush's Iraq War resolution). So for them to claim that it was of the rationate - now - technically isn't spin.

What's spin, is for them to continue to ignore the HJ. 114 required that the President completely exhaust all viable diplomatic means of bring Saddam Hussein into compliance with all outstanding UN Resolutions, including UN Security Council 1441 - which reauthorized the Weapons Inspections to return to Iraq in November of 2002.

Since Bush didn't let the inspectors finish the job before declaring War - he broke the promise and agreement he made with Congress with they passed he signed HJ. 114 (Which is exactly what John Kerry was talking about all during the election!)

Vyan

[KoKo]

37. Thanks again, Luna for a great post!

Context! :yourock: