BBV: Want to help? Report a felony today.

[Gordon25]

Been doing some reading and thinking about how to get more people involved in taking actions to correct this problem. Suddenly realized it was staring me in the face.

If, as citizens, we encounter evidence of a crime (or multiple crimes) being committed, we are taught it is our civic duty to report it to the proper authorities.

I have included two sets of quotes below; the first from a Diebold Election System, Inc.'s employees manual recently leaked to the media by a Diebold whistle blower; the second from a summary of United States federal law on hiring and harboring illegal immigrants. All emphasis added are mine.

Read through the quotations. If, having done so, you question why Diebold would need to illegally bring non-U.S. citizens in to work as tech support for our elections, and if you feel the need to act, well all the instructions you need are contained in the quotes. And if you don't want to deal with INS, thanks to John Ascroft issuing an executive order, you can now report immigration crimes to the FBI and they have the authority to investigate and make arrests.

Please note, I am not advising you to do anything. I am merely providing data. But should you decide to act, patriots everywhere will support and applaud you.

Gordon25

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0309/S00157.htm

"1. Overview
"This document is intended for Diebold Election Systems, Inc. staff attending elections, and attempts to address the majority of representati ve situations that may be encountered at an election. The document aims primarily at educating novice election support staff...

"Travel
"Page 2-2
"2. Travel
"Book a flight, car rental, and hotel either through Bolack Travel in Albuquerque or Creative Travel in Vancouver. Bolack is our designated travel agent, although Creative will offer possibly much cheaper fares. Air fares booked through Bolack are paid directly by the company, while air fares booked through Creative are paid directly by the booking individual. You pay for car rentals, hotels, and restaurant bills directly. Collect all receipts, then following the election, submit expenses using the forms recently issued by Larry Hogan..."

"Book your trip so that you are onsite the full Monday before the election, and leave no earlier than the afternoon following the election...."

"2.1. Border crossing
"Indicate that you are attending an election when questioned by US customs. Provide a terse explanation of what your job is as well as the business the company you work for is in. Under no circumstances should you indicate that you intend on working in the US. If requested, give Tab's name and work telephone number as reference."

"3. General issues
"As representative of Diebold on election day, you will be considered the paragon of knowledge and authority with respect to the jurisdiction’s election, even though you may in fact be the least qualified person on site. In light of this, present yourself in as diplomatic, reassuring, and professional a manner as possible.

http://www.fairus.org/html/04176912.htm
(Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) website.)

"The following is an overview of federal law on hiring and harboring illegal aliens. It is not a substitute for professional legal counsel in specific situations...

Summary
A person (including a group of persons, business, organization or local government) commits a federal felony when he:
*assists an alien whom he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him to obtain employment,
* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S., by referring him to an employer, by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way...

"Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime.

"In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

"It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an alien for a fee, knowing the alien is unauthorized to work in the United States. It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an alien knowing that the alien is unauthorized to work...

"It is unlawful to hire an individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements. Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with 3 days advance notice, they must be made available for inspection...

"Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States...

"An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verification of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the alien labor. The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements...

"If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire...

"An employer can be convicted of the felony of harboring illegal aliens who are his employees if he takes actions in reckless disregard of their illegal status, such as ordering them to obtain false documents, altering records, obstructing INS inspections, or taking other actions that facilitate the alien’s illegal employment. Any person who within any 12-month period hires ten or more individuals with actual knowledge that they illegal aliens or unauthorized workers is guilty of felony harboring...


"It is also a felony to encourage or induce an alien to come to or reside in the U.S. knowing or recklessly disregarding the fact that the alien’s entry or residence is in violation of the law. This crime applies to any person, rather than just employers of illegal aliens. Courts have ruled that “encouraging” includes counseling illegal aliens to continue working in the U.S. or assisting them to complete applications with false statements or obvious “errors”....The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years...

"Convictions for aiding, abetting, or conspiracy to commit alien smuggling or harboring, carry the same penalties

"Conspiracy to commit the crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years imprisonment...

"A person or entity having knowledge of a violation or potential violation of employer sanctions provisions may submit a signed written complaint to the INS office with jurisdiction over the business or residence of the potential violator, whether an employer, employee, or agent. The complaint must include the names and addresses of both the complainant and the violator, and detailed factual allegations, including date, time and place of the potential violation, and the specific conduct alleged to be a violation of employer sanctions. By regulation, the INS will only investigate third party complaints that have “a reasonable probability of validity...”

"Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO)..."

"Employers who aid or abet the preparation of false tax returns by failing to pay income or social security taxes for illegal alien employees, or who knowingly make payments using false names or social security numbers, are subject to IRS criminal and civil sanctions..."

[TorchTheWitch]

1. kick

kick

[grasswire]

2. wtf is this???

Can it be that this Diebold brought non-citizens in to be at hand in polling places to LOOK COMFORTING AND KNOWLEDGEABLE?????

I'm beside myself here. Freaking out.

What kind of cynical and anti-American crap is this??

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

[grasswire]

3. look!!

"As representative of Diebold on election day, you will be considered the paragon of knowledge and authority with respect to the jurisdiction’s election, even though you may in fact be the least qualified person on site. In light of this, present yourself in as diplomatic, reassuring, and professional a manner as possible.

[grasswire]

4. kick and hope people read this

My blood pressure must be off the chart.

[nostamj]

18. they put this shit in WRITING ???

even though you may in fact be the least qualified person on site

[shirlden]

5. Have been wondering about this.

I printed the manuel and have been wondering about this and why they find it necessary to "sneak" employees in from Vancouver. It would be no problem to prove they were here and when from the leaked memos. Compiling a list would be easy too. Some of these folks are no longer with Diebold/GES. I found a web site today for Guy Lancaster.....guylancester.com He is in Canada or I should say back in Canada. Believe he was living in Texas for at least part of the time he was with GES.
While I am not opposed to this action, I have to question if it would further our cause, which is to secure our voting system. Most of these people seemed to be just trying to do a job and they would be more damaged by a suit of this nature than Diebold, who would just pay a fine and go on with business as usual.

:think:

[Gordon25]

42. Any official investigation...

...which starts overturning corporate rocks will lead to the real crimes.

Gordon25

[Cocoa]

6. is this related to BBV?

even if this is illegal, is it related to the technical election integrity issue?

It seems like it's not. This smacks of throwing everthing against Diebold that you can find and seeing what sticks.

[grasswire]

9. who are you?

And why are you opposed to ensuring open, free and fair elections?

[Zhade]

35. Disruptor. Or, not interested in even potential vote fraud. Your pick.

NT!

[Kelvin Mace]

11. It is related since

these people are being brought in to provide support and guidance to election officials using Diebold hardware/software.

Some of these people would be in a position to "fix" problems that arose during actual elections. I find non-citizens tampering with the inner workings of our electoral process VERY germane.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org

[Cocoa]

16. explain the part about being in a position to "fix" problems

Exactly how is this so, and doesn't the fact that these people seem kind of clueless contradict this?

And what does the citizenship have to do with it? Seriously, I want to know, this whole thing seems very strange.

What countries are they coming from?

[Gordon25]

20. Read the manual...

...and you will find lots of references to things they are supposed to do including "fixing" things when they break, as the emails make clear happens often. They are at the polls and at election center as Diebold's representatives. That apparently gives them all the authority they need to access the machines and software. As to what that has to do with citizenship (and why out of work U.S. tech trained citizens couldn't be hired to do the job), those are real good questions.

Finally, Cocoa, look at the original post. There is certainly evidence there that Diebold is committing felonies, or has been (why else write the manual?). Why would you be opposed to them being investigated by the INS or FBI on the basis of that evidence? Or do you feel it is ok for corporations and their executives to commit felonies as long as no private citizen can "prove" they are trying to rig elections?

Gordon25

[Gordon25]

19. Since that's the way they treat our elections...

...don't ya think turnabout is fair play?

Gordon25

[Cheswick2.0]

7. I can not fathom this at all

Why were they bringing people from over the border to monitor our elections?

[BevHarris]

8. Not monitor the elections -- mess around with the programs

The people they've been bringing over the border to work elections are support technicians, like Sophia Lee, who handled much of California and King County, Washington. They install (often uncertified) software, create ballots, mess with modems and remote connectivity.

These are people with absolute access to everything, including the dial-in phone numbers for the modems, the port settings, everything.

That being said, when Diebold took over it started working on some paperwork for Sophia Lee. I'm not sure what this paperword was, exactly. They may have been trying to close this loophole. I'll go check.

These memos are now very easy to find, thanks to the work of DU's own bpilgrim. If you click this link and enter any term in the search engine, it immediately takes you to every Diebold memo which contains that search term.

http://new.globalfreepress.com/mnogosearch/search.cgi

[grasswire]

10. Bev...

....are they bringing people over because they might have less opposition to messing with U.S. election? Or because they are harder to find to testify?

[DEMActivist]

12. I believe it's because

they are further from the reaches of the American Legal System.

That's just personal belief, though. However, seeing the corrupt corporate culture we are seeing in these memos, I think it's a justified belief.

[grasswire]

13. that's what I was thinking

...they can't be forced to testify to anything.

[RedEagle]

14. Keep this going too

Kick!

[BevHarris]

15. What is L-1B visa, an I-797 approval notice, and a G-28 form?

RE: L-1B Visa for Sophia Lee

People were working on this, including a Dallas lawyer, for Sophia Lee. They reference issues with all of the above, apparently she got stopped at the Los Angeles airport and had a problem because documents weren't in order.

However (at least after Diebold took over) it sounds like they were trying to get them in order.

However, her visa problems don't excuse the other behavior. Anyone who is Canadian and traveling into the USA to work is subject to regulations.

[BevHarris]

17. Answered one of my own questions

L-1B Nonimmigrant Visa for International Employees with Special Skills

Qualifications:
L-1B visa is for persons employed for at least one of the previous three years at a non-U.S. firm, corporation, or other legal entity, who will come to the U.S. to work at its related entity in the United States as an employee who has specialized knowledge.

The Canadian Diebold employees would fit this classification. If they had L1-B visas, though, why not just say so at the border?

Oh, and the memos imply that only Sophia Lee (originally from Hong Kong, I think) has this problem, but what about the other Vancouverites when they come into the USA?

[TorchTheWitch]

21. good question

I believe that when coming into the country to work here you have to give them info about the company... name, address, etc. It looks like it may have been Diebold's intention to bring these people in country without them being known as foreigners working for Diebold.

I know of people that regularly cross into NY from Canada and claim they're vacationing in order to work at the nightclubs because the clubs don't want it on record that those people are working for them, and they hire them under independent contractor status... practically no paperwork on those people that way.

Is anything known about these non-U.S. citizens' personnel records with Diebold? I know that with the people that work in clubs here that come over the Canadian border don't have any personnel records with the clubs other than a little one page signed contract, and the contract basically says they're hired as an independent contractor and have to abide by the club rules. There's no personal info like address, phone number, etc. so the clubs can relatively easily hide the fact that they worked there at all.

It does seem that there would have to be a big reason why Diebold would want to keep their foreign status fairly hidden since they're going through the risk of having the people stopped at the border. The only reason I can think of for why that would be is to hide the fact that they worked for Diebold at all... but that raises the question of why they may want to hide that.

Maybe I'm going around in circles with this, but there would have to be a real reason why Diebold would go to the trouble of having the people slip into the country this way.

[ewagner]

22. Hit and run?

Maybe this.....

bring them into the country, install hardware/software that any Citizen would know to be illegal. Leave the country. No record of employment. No muss, no fuss, no bother.

[BevHarris]

23. Well, there is certainly a record they were here

because the elections officials know them by name, and call them when they have a problem.

Bev

[Gordon25]

24. These are precisely...

...the sort of questions that an "official investigation by the appropriate agency or agencies" would be able to get answered. They would have the authority to do it. We don't. Hence my original post. The manual and emails are significant enough evidence to trigger such an investigation. A rash of citizen reports and complaints will help.

This corporation is a criminal as Enron if not more so. Enron stole our retirements. Diebold (intentionally or through incompetence-married-to-greed) is trying to steal our democracy by undermining the integrity of the voting process.

They lie, cheat and steal, and commit serial felonies. The evidence is in the emails and employee manuals.

Let me say that again. They lie. They cheat. They steal. They commit serial felonies.

Do you want to trust them with your vote? Then read the emails and the manual and report the crimes you find. Any investigation will eventually lead to all the other crimes the emails detail (running uncertified software during elections, for example. Attorney General's in every state where the emails show uncertified software was used should be notified with formal complaints.)

If anything is clear from this look inside the corporate culture at Diebold, it is that fixing things so they work right is anathema. Covering your ass and making things look good is job number one. So don't expect them to do anything to make things right, to meet citizen objections to their system.

Diebold couldn't do the right thing if their survival depended upon it. Look how they have reacted to the publication of the emails and manual.

Gordon25

[Isome]

25. A formal complaint?

What do we do, call the attorney general's office and ask them how to make one?

I'll give it a shot.

[Gordon25]

26. Check back in the...

...original post and you will find (near the end of the quotes on federal law) the instructions on how to present a complaint to INS. If you have found in the emails one or more which indicate an uncertified version of election software was run in an election in your area, I would call the Attorney General's office, indicate I had evidence that uncertified software was used in an election in the A/G's jurisdiction, and ask who I should speak or write to. Remember that the demand letters from Diebold's attorey's to remove the emails (see blackboxvoting.org) prove the validity of the evidence you have. Thanks for your willingness to help. If we don't report the crimes we are aware of, we contribute to nothing being done.

Gordon25

[Isome]

31. Gotcha'

I'm going to email someone for help if I hit a brick wall!

[Pobeka]

27. I think this is a non-event

Because the people crossing the border are not being *paid* by a U.S. employer, they are still drawing their paycheck from the Canadian based entity.

It just seems reasonable that Diebold wanted to not have confusion at U.S. Customs by having an employee say "going to work in (somewhere, USA)", and the custom official's next response being "let's see your work visa".

But maybe it is an event -- Sophia Lee getting a visa-variant suggests they may be in a grey area, due to the length of stay perhaps?

[BevHarris]

28. No, it is an event all right.

Sophia Lee got picked up at the Los Angeles airport and, it appears, sent back, which is what caused all the stir about getting her some paperwork.

That being said, I would expect that when Diebold bought it, they had their people start dotting the i's and crossing the t's on this paperwork. But one never knows.

[Pobeka]

29. Sent back is definitely an event

Musta missed that somewhere in this thread.

[TinfoilHatProgrammer]

30. wrong again, bev

I suspect that pobeka is absolutely right on the money for the most part. I don't know the specifics of the Sophia Lee case you're referring to since I haven't read all the stolen email, but it would appear from what you posted that Diebold took steps to acquire the required visa(s) for her so I'm not sure what the story is. I suppose "Diebold Secures Temporary Work Visa for Support Staff Worker" doesn't really jump out and grab the reader.

These BBV threads totally crack me up. I especially love reading all the speculation on this thread about why these people are coming from Vancouver, Canada and how it's probably because they have less of a problem messing with American democracy, or how they're beyond the reach of the FBI. Nobody ever supposes that it's because Diebold bought a company that happened to have a development office in Vancouver. Funny how it's always got to be some evil conspiracy.

JC

[TorchTheWitch]

32. yawn

>>"These BBV threads totally crack me up. I especially love reading all the speculation on this thread about why these people are coming from Vancouver, Canada and how it's probably because they have less of a problem messing with American democracy, or how they're beyond the reach of the FBI. Nobody ever supposes that it's because Diebold bought a company that happened to have a development office in Vancouver. Funny how it's always got to be some evil conspiracy."


Funny how it’s always got to be some evil coincidence theorist that can’t read yet can still manage to type.


once again for the intellectually challenged and/or illiterate:


http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0309/S00157.htm
"2.1. Border crossing
"Indicate that you are attending an election when questioned by US customs. Provide a terse explanation of what your job is as well as the business the company you work for is in. Under no circumstances should you indicate that you intend on working in the US. If requested, give Tab's name and work telephone number as reference."

----------
NOTE:
1) "Under no circumstances should you indicate that you intend on working in the US." -- now, why would that be? {snort}
2) "Provide a TERSE explanation" -- why "terse"? {snort}
3) "of what your job is as well as the business they company you work for is in" -- in other words, don't tell them the NAME OF THE COMPANY. {snort}
4) "If requested, give Tab's name and work telephone number as reference" -- in other words, don't tell them the NAME OF THE COMPANY. {snort}
----------


http://www.fairus.org/html/04176912.htm
(Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) website.)

"The following is an overview of federal law on hiring and harboring illegal aliens. It is not a substitute for professional legal counsel in specific situations...

Summary
A person (including a group of persons, business, organization or local government) commits a federal felony when he:
*assists an alien whom he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him to obtain employment,
* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S., by referring him to an employer, by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way...

"Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime.

"In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

"It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an alien for a fee, knowing the alien is unauthorized to work in the United States. It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an alien knowing that the alien is unauthorized to work...
"It is unlawful to hire an individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements. Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with 3 days advance notice, they must be made available for inspection...

"Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States...

"An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verification of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the alien labor. The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements...

"If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire...

"An employer can be convicted of the felony of harboring illegal aliens who are his employees if he takes actions in reckless disregard of their illegal status, such as ordering them to obtain false documents, altering records, obstructing INS inspections, or taking other actions that facilitate the alien’’s illegal employment. Any person who within any 12-month period hires ten or more individuals with actual knowledge that they illegal aliens or unauthorized workers is guilty of felony harboring...

"It is also a felony to encourage or induce an alien to come to or reside in the U.S. knowing or recklessly disregarding the fact that the alien’’s entry or residence is in violation of the law. This crime applies to any person, rather than just employers of illegal aliens. Courts have ruled that ““encouraging”” includes counseling illegal aliens to continue working in the U.S. or assisting them to complete applications with false statements or obvious ““errors””....The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years...

"Convictions for aiding, abetting, or conspiracy to commit alien smuggling or harboring, carry the same penalties

"Conspiracy to commit the crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years imprisonment...

"A person or entity having knowledge of a violation or potential violation of employer sanctions provisions may submit a signed written complaint to the INS office with jurisdiction over the business or residence of the potential violator, whether an employer, employee, or agent. The complaint must include the names and addresses of both the complainant and the violator, and detailed factual allegations, including date, time and place of the potential violation, and the specific conduct alleged to be a violation of employer sanctions. By regulation, the INS will only investigate third party complaints that have ““a reasonable probability of validity...””

"Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO)..."

"Employers who aid or abet the preparation of false tax returns by failing to pay income or social security taxes for illegal alien employees, or who knowingly make payments using false names or social security numbers, are subject to IRS criminal and civil sanctions..."

[TinfoilHatProgrammer]

33. good luck with your civil suit and everything

Here's your favorite excerpt:

"2.1. Border crossing
"Indicate that you are attending an election when questioned by US customs. Provide a terse explanation of what your job is as well as the business the company you work for is in. Under no circumstances should you indicate that you intend on working in the US. If requested, give Tab's name and work telephone number as reference."

Nowhere does it say to lie or misrepresent the company's business.

Nowhere does it say to not divulge the name of the reader's employer.

Nowhere does it say to engage in any illegal activity of any kind, whatsoever.


The excerpt you posted is directed towards Canadian-employed staff who may be deployed on election day in some support or advisory role where their product is installed. This is in no way illegal (despite your lengthy misinterpretation of US immigration law). These people are not immigrating to the US, nor are they seeking illegal employment (or employment of any kind) in the US.

The excerpt you posted instructs the reader to state he or she is attending an election. Is that illegal? No. Is it inaccurate? No.

The excerpt instructs the reader to give a terse explanation of his or her job, as well as the business the company is in. Is the reader told to lie or misrepresent herself? No. Is she asked to misrepresent her business in any way? No. Are they asked to do anything illegal? Not in the least. You question the motive behind the instruction to be "terse". It's always good policy to be accurate and concise with immigration and customs officials. Obviously you'd rather infer something nefarious. Most likely the instructions are simply written to help ensure that the reader's business in the US is not misconstrued as illegal immigration employment.

The excerpt states emphatically that the reader should not indicate that he or she intends to work in the US. That's probably because the reader most assuredly does not intend to work in the US.


There's nothing here. Seriously. You won't believe me, and that's fine. I'm anxiously awaiting the outcome of your civil suit... please be sure to post the results here.

JC

[BevHarris]

34. Tab? Oh Tab, is that you?

A wee might defensive, aren't we?

Illegal as hell: "Under no circumstances should you indicate that you intend on working in the US."

Note the regulations: even if it is only for one day, if they get a paycheck for it, it's a violation without the proper clearance.

Nice try.

[TinfoilHatProgrammer]

37. tab? I thought I was fredda?

Yesterday I was accused of being Fredda Weinberg. Today I'm apparently Tab Iredale. (I must admit, it's way more fun being the evil puppetmaster.) You people need to get your story straight. Geesh.

I have noted the regulations as instructed in your post, and I agree that if anyone works in the US, even for a single day, and picks up a paycheck for it, it'd be a problem. I seriously doubt anyone here is picking up a paycheck besides their regular salary back in Vancouver. Moreover, I'm sure that these particular Diebold clients (i.e. state governments) have at least some vague awareness of US immigration and employment law and aren't paying a bunch of illegal immigrants to work their elections. Does the manual say who in the US the reader should see to pick up their illegal one-day election danger pay? I missed that part. Do you have another stolen document supporting this latest claim in your seemingly endless stream of Diebold-perpetrated felonies? Or is it (as is often the case) just something you're implying to be true?

The truth is, there's no indication these people are illegally working in the US or collecting any illicit pay. The manual says "under no circumstances should you indicate that you intend on working in the US" -- I posit that it's because they aren't working in the US and the directive is there simply to avoid any confusion or delay at the border. In any event I'm a programmer, not an immigration lawyer, so as I suggested to another reader, launch your civil suit and post the results here... I'll cheerfully accept a ruling by a qualified legal body either way. In the meantime I'm off to make popcorn.

JC

[FlaGranny]

38. Doggone suspicious that fredda

disappears and someone new comes to take her place. Perhaps she wasn't effective enough and a replacement was needed.

[Gordon25]

41. Oh, Great THP...

"The truth is, there's no indication these people are illegally working in the US or collecting any illicit pay. The manual says "under no circumstances should you indicate that you intend on working in the US" -- I posit that it's because they aren't working in the US and the directive is there simply to avoid any confusion or delay at the border."


...Please explain the following quotes from the manual. And while you are at it, explain the emails showing uncertified software run in elections illegally. I am all atwitter awaiting your wisdom so I can sleep well tonight instead of worrying about what a damn Canadian company with Russian, Bulgarian and Slovenian programmers are doing writing secret ballotless software (I and my elected officials can not examine it) upon which to conduct American elections.

"This document is intended for Diebold Election Systems, Inc. staff attending elections, and attempts to address the majority of representati ve situations that may be encountered at an election. The document aims primarily at educating novice election support staff...

" You pay for car rentals, hotels, and restaurant bills directly. Collect all receipts, then following the election, submit expenses using the forms recently issued by Larry Hogan..."

"As representative of Diebold on election day..."

Please enlighten me oh knowledgeable one.

Gordon25

[Cocoa]

43. lawsuit?

not gonna happen. See, in lawsuits, you have to go to court, and in court, the accused gets to defend himself. This puts BBV* at a big disadvantage.





*my definition of BBV does not represent the definition of Bev Harris or Plan Nine Publishing.

[Gordon25]

44. Before the courtroom...

...there are the depositions, discovery, etc. By the time this gets to a courtroom Diebold will be playing defense on so many fronts they will wish they had never heard of GES.

And by the way, Cocoa. I think this thread has something to do with reporting felonies, not filing suit. We don't want to sue. We want an official investigation.

Maybe you don't. Tough. Not a single word you say or write in their defense changes a single action they have taken, fixes a single bug or security hole in their code, uncommitts a single crime, or makes our elections one iota safer or more secure. An official investigation would.

To the degree you choose to defend a company who writes buggy secret ballotless voting software, who refuses to fix exposed security flaws, who is a foreign company hiring foreign programmers out of the reach of U.S. law and law enforcement, who runs uncertified software, and who's first reaction to any question about their methods is to cover up and threaten to sue to shut up the questioner, you are the perfect front for such a corrupt corporation. Can't acknowledge the problem. Can't admit there are mistakes. Can't admit they screwed up. And can't confront the questions head on but evade, spin, attack, set up straw men, and generally muddy the water. But you do keep providing reasons to kick this back onto page one so more people see it who can think for themselves. Thank you for your contributions.

Gordon25

Gordon25

[Kelvin Mace]

45. Well, since you definition

*my definition of BBV does not represent the definition of Bev Harris or Plan Nine Publishing.

Isn't that kind of like saying "my definition of x does not represent the definition of x as found in the dictionary."?

Also, it's not Plan Nine's definition, it is my definition. <s>

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org

[Gordon25]

46. Try again, THP

"The excerpt states emphatically that the reader should not indicate that he or she intends to work in the US. That's probably because the reader most assuredly does not intend to work in the US."

Let's try the first sentence of the manual again for the reading challenged: "This document is intended for Diebold Election Systems, Inc. staff...The document aims primarily at educating novice election support staff..."

New American Heritage Dictionary: Staff: <snip> "3.a. A group of assistants who aid an executive or other person of authority <snip> c. The personnel who carry out a specific enterprise:the nursing staff of a hospital."

I suppose they love their jobs so much, and their employers so much, that they altruisticaly travel to these US elections on their own time and money just to learn more. No expectation of remuneration. Oh, heaven's no. That would be so...so...so crassly commercial.

Gordon25

[Zhade]

36. You can't be on DU for the reasons we are...

...or you would realize that the powers-that-be are capable of a whole lot of illegal activity. Much of it conspiratorial in nature.

Like, oh, lying us into a "war" of "liberation".

[havocmom]

39. kick (n/)

:kick:

[zekeson]

40. kick, border crossings?

"2.1. Border crossing
"Indicate that you are attending an election when questioned by US customs. Provide a terse explanation of what your job is as well as the business the company you work for is in. Under no circumstances should you indicate that you intend on working in the US. If requested, give Tab's name and work telephone number as reference."

"Provide a terse explanation..." even if you are unexperienced and clueless as to what you should be doing, when in fact, arll you are doing chaniging counters to our pre-ordained candidate...

[LanternWaste]

47. You guys are doing great work!

You guys are doing great work. You have my best hopes in bringing this to a fully warranted complete public disclosure.

Keep it up!

[PATRICK]

48. How about Canada?

We seem not to be able to get sparks yet from our legal system. How about the Mounties? Seriously, from what I understand the Canadian conservative origins of these companies is strong and also will bounce back into Canadian election processes. OUR customs and IRS people may be leashed but what about Canadian law?

The first goal of what occurred seems an effort at covering up unpleasant questions that might arise and/or assisting in monetary benefits foor their guests. If it means delving so that more exposure is put on deeper and more ominous dealings with this crew any chink is invaluable. Inevitably of course it broaches to the Canadian government a possible encroachment on the integrity of THEIR voting system, something whyich is probably unthinkable to most of them as of now.

Listening to the recall hearings again points out how absolutely blind the legal community and the ACLU is to what we have been finding about Diebold, but more so incredible computer illieracy concerning the insecure nature of scanning and electronic software in the first place.

Of course, they are not alone. Many knowledgeable computer people(not me!) or those advised by such can be duped by the details into ignoring the malleability of electrons in the first place. Often simply because they do not connect human nature to the math and are apolitical animals. More naivete.

Any luck with the CANADIAN authorities yet?