I think the story of Saddam is the story of CIA Blowback...

[Junkdrawer]

Since so many here want to frame our opinion of Saddam, let's all remember how Iraq was blessed with Ba'ath government to begin with...

There was a coup in Iraq in 1963. What do we know about the U.S. involvement in that coup?

The U.S. involvement in the coup against Kassem in Iraq in 1963 was substantial. There is evidence that CIA agents were in touch with army officers who were involved in the coup. There is evidence that an electronic command center was set up in Kuwait to guide the forces who were fighting Kassem. There is evidence that they supplied the conspirators with lists of people who had to be eliminated immediately in order to ensure success. The relationship between the Americans and the Ba'ath Party at that moment in time was very close indeed. And that continued for some time after the coup. And there was an exchange of information between the two sides. For example it was one of the first times that the United States was able to get certain models of Mig fighters and certain tanks made in the Soviet Union. That was the bribe. That was what the Ba'ath had to offer the United States in return for their help in eliminating Kassem.

Do we know to what extent Saddam Hussein was involved in the killings when he came back from Cairo?

I have documented over 700 people who were eliminated, mostly on an individual basis, after the 1963 coup. And they were eliminated based on lists supplied by the CIA to the Ba'ath Party. So the CIA and the Ba'ath were in the business of eliminating communists and leftists who were dangerous to the Ba'ath's takeover.

The coup took place in April, Saddam Hussein did not return to Iraq until May. But he went to work immediately. He became an interrogator in the Fellaheen and Muthaqafeen detention camps. They are camps where they kept communists and fellow travellers, after they took power. And in interrogating people in those camps, he used torture, and undoubtedly like everybody else involved in this activity, eliminated people. In 1963 he was still one of the party's toughs, one of the party's thugs, if you wish.

...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saddam/interviews/aburish.html

[expatriot]

1. just b/c Bush said he was evil doesn't make us obliged to defend him

I agree with you on your opening comment... I think a few well-intentioned DUers are falling into the trap of thinking they have to create a defense for Saddam.

[LynnTheDem]

8. Actually, Hussein has a fundamental right to the best defense possible.

Unless you don't give a damn about fundamental human rights.

And no, it isn't a contest; that Hussein didn't give a damn doesn't mean you get to not give a damn, too.

You either believe in HUMAN rights.

Or you don't.

[applegrove]

2. Saddam was a monster. No need to worry about that. Says nothing

about the stupid, hubristic way the neocons ran the war. They are wrong. So is Saddam.

[radwriter0555]

5. There is little evidence to validate the wild stories about saddam. After

all, Castro has horns and a tail as well... but oddly, there is little evidence of it.

I will not accept the bush regime stories about saddam. They've been embellished and stroked for more than 15 years by a small group of people who have a lot at stake.

There is no evidence and no witnesses to validate the stories about saddam, and all the stories seem to eminate from the cronies of bush.

[applegrove]

6. I've been around for a long time and Saddam was a particularly

grotesque monster way before the neocons & right wing policy hacks in the USA broke with him. He is an evil person. Yes - during the Iraq/Kuwait War there was propaganda about Saddam throwing babies out of incubators there. That was war propaganda and everyone was upset to hear how we had fallen for it. And you really cannot trust all the info that gets said during war. But - long before Saddam was out of favor with the US - he was a monster. Even while he was still their bestest pal.

Nothing changes that. Let the people there have their trial. They deserve that at the very least.

I am Canadian and we never fell for the USA propaganda against Cuba. Never. We are all aware how 'particular' your foreign policy can be. Everyone was scared of Saddam and the things he was doing in the 1980s. Everyone.

There was not much documentation on Hitler doing his war atrocities with scapegoated people. Not until the war ended and investigation could take place (well it was pretty obvious in every town and city that the Allies liberated).

[DemonFighterLives]

9. Do you really think this trial will reveal that much?

I have serious doubts. We are being channeled info. that is good for the B*sh regime. Any reporter who attempts to tell another story will be killed or smeared according to Neocon tradition. I really could care less about Saddam's trial unless he is allowed to tell all. I would love to see Cheney or dubby and rummy in the Hague. Maybe Saddam should be with them, but the jury is out.

[LynnTheDem]

12. "Any reporter who tries"? Try discussing the facts right here on DU and

not get smeared.

[DemonFighterLives]

17. I know

It was time to come out of my hole.
:hide:

[LynnTheDem]

19. LOL!

:D

[applegrove]

13. Don't you think Saddam will get up there and talk?

[applegrove]

14. Already we know that the Iran Iraq war will not be one of the 12 cases

and they say that is because it would result in war reparations that Iraq would have to pay to Iran and that they cannot afford that. I'm thinking that the Iran Iraq war was probably heavily neoconed. So the neocons get out of that one. Yes it is true.

[DemonFighterLives]

20. I think he will be muffled or silenced

Not sure how yet, but the neocons are pros. at this crap. It will play out good for hero * and Saddam will just look like a washed up hateful old man. What happened to the pages from his Iraqi Weapons Declaration? I'll give you a hint - they were tore up by the US and never were distributed.
Ronnie Raygun and Geo the elder played Iraq against Iran and it was sickening and we had to know it would blowback.
There was the October Surprise that brought these a*sholes into power. There was phony intelligence of Iraqi's ready to invade Saudi Arabia and the door was opened for Saddam to go after Kuwait. Somehow the side drilling must have ties to our own sidewinders.

[Junkdrawer]

15. Suppressing evidence that the CIA aided Saddam's rise to power...

will be the biggest "challenge" the puppet regime will have in Saddam's trial.

If it's like any other BushCo scandal, a small minority who get their news via the alternative media will get the straight scoop. The rest will get a comfortable, sanitized "we're good, he's evil" version.

The truth is out there, it's just uncomfortable.

[applegrove]

16. I agree. I hope Saddam talks. I hope Iraqis talk about Saddam during

the trial and about the neocon involvement for the next 20 years. I don't see how you can put him on trial & some of his friends and not have neocon stuff and American foreign policy make it out.

I mean there will be one angry bunch of Iraqis if the truth is continually suppressed.

It is very strange. But don't think the black and white version will be the thing that comes out of the trials. The black and white version isn't playing even now.

[DemonFighterLives]

21. I hear ya

The last time Saddam got a chance to speak he wasn't giving an inch. He carved up the judge and they had to put him back in his cage.
A fair trial seems like a wetdream. It might happen and it might not. Wonderful trial that Saddam's boys got though/not.

[radwriter0555]

22. I'm curious; when do you recall the players starting to demonize

Saddam?

After all, rummy and wolfie were best friends with saddam. He couldn't have been all that bad.

[SmokingJacket]

18. He's a monster, but he's our monster.

We made him. That's the point here, I think.

[EFerrari]

3. I think we owe it to the people who died because we put this man

in power, because we supported and armed him, because we decided he was no longer useful, and because we invaded Iraq twice, to try to find the truth.

In the same way that today, people forget that Watergate was not about a burglary but about election tampering, we forget that if Saddam was a monster, he was very much our monster.

The dead are owed that much.

[LynnTheDem]

10. Bravo!

I can't believe there are progressives who think the actual factual cold hard truth, and discussion thereof, isn't important.

[Junkdrawer]

4. A Pre Saddam Trial Kick...

:kick:

[LynnTheDem]

7. Don't mention facts!!! Any mention of facts will be deemed a defense of

Saddam Hussein.

There is NO NEED to know the facts!

"Everybody knows" is all you need to know!

DO NOT MENTION FACTS!

:eyes:

[DemonFighterLives]

11. You're right!

:rofl:
Don't disturb the crusaders parade!