Is economic freedom more compelling than political freedom?

[NNguyenMD]

I was listening to a BBC documentary on the economic conversion of China, and how this new generation of young Chinese entrepenuers aren't phased by the fact that their civil freedoms are curtailed, as long as the ability to get rich, make money, and move up the economic ladder is alive and well. This isn't at all generalizable for the entire country, but for the exploding economies in Shanghai and Beijing, or even the growing medium sized cities like Shen Yen, the almighty buck trumps civil liberties any day of the week.

Would you make a similar generalization about the United States?

[kliljedahl]

1. We have neither here

Keith’s Barbeque Central

[geek tragedy]

2. That argument makes more sense in China, which is obviously much

poorer and where respect for authority is an integral part of the culture.

[jwirr]

3. I would say it depends

on if your family is starving.

[applegrove]

4. If there are barriers to your family owning land you have farmed forever

so you remain poor and cannot accumulate wealth - then having laws that work against you is bad.

So too is a lack of civil freedom.

So too is crime.

So too is are evil people in power.

So too is evil that leads people into acting tribal (at this late date in civilization)

All bad. All the time!!

[NNguyenMD]

5. I don't think its so much that demanding civil rights is considered a bad

thing amongst these new entrepenuerial young Chinese, its just that they're apathetic about it. You often hear them (on the BBC radio program) say that things are better than before but they don't want to rattle the system about issues that don't affect them much, especially when there is so much money to be made.

[applegrove]

7. I think everyone knows that there is a point at which the Chinese

cannot turn back. Right now they get their asses kissed. But at some time they will be as dependent on civil strife not messing up their economy.. that they have to allow for freedoms. May be decades away. I mean with the government parking money in America bonds they certainly are not 'spreading it around'.

Too bad the neocons in the USA get to us this half totalitarian China to hide their own bad deeds behind.

[Richard Steele]

8. In China, BOTH freedoms are increasing, so why rock the boat?

Certainly, their freedoms of speech and thought are still far behind many other nations.

However, in the "rights race", China should be viewed more in terms of its VELOCITY than its current POSITION.

In the 'Western'(Caucasian) world, we occasionally mention the 'Dark Ages' and the 'Inquisition' when discussing such highbrow matters.
These terms are used in the sense of an argumental 'boogeyman' or 'Lowest Possible Denominator'...

For Westerners, those ideas exist only in history books about Europe 1000 years ago.
But China was THERE a mere 40 years ago...its 'Cultural Revolution' was all the worst days of the "Dark Ages" packed into a mere 15 years or so!

China in 2005 is certainly REPRESSIVE of ideas, while busting its butt to encourage economic growth.
The best comparison to the USA would be the late 1950's under McCarthyism.

So, to sum up, in 'USA years':

CHINA:
has jumped from the year 1176 to 1958 in under 40 years;
Their ECONOMIC freedoms are an almost vertical spike;
Their SOCIAL freedoms are currently at "stockholder" and continue an upward curve.

The USA:
has jumped from 2001 BACKWARD to an ILLUSION of 1958 in only 4 years.
Only the Hypnotic Corporate media maintains the ILLUSION of a happy suburban 1958-era citizenry.

Our 'Economic Freedoms' have been moved back to 1898 levels;
those few groups (unions) who had pre-existing "Contractual Guarantees" are seeing those contracts SHREDDED by pro-fascist Federal Courts.

And our CIVIL RIGHTS in the USA here in 2005?
Sadly, things are so bad that we can't really estimate a YEAR!

In our CONSTITUTION's "Bill of Rights", not a single Amendment of the Ten has been respected in the last 5 years,
So I can only give you a 'ballpark estimate':

Our "Civil Freedoms" have gone from "Year 2000" to "Pre-1783" in 5 short years.

[Psephos]

6. Sooner or later, economic freedom begets more political freedom

At least, that's generally been the lesson of history. My belief is that maximum economic efficiency requires the rule of law. Enforceable contracts may not sound glamorous, but they are fundamental to economic expansion.

Peace.

I find that principles have no real force except when one is well fed.
-Mark Twain

[lonestarnot]

9. Aren't the Chinese used to not having civil rights? How do you miss what

you've never known?

[NNguyenMD]

10. my thoughts exactly, their choice though I suppose or perhaps not