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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:23 AM
Original message
Oil Storm FX movie
Ok folks this IS a great way to start the national discussion on Peak Oil. They barely touched on it, though teh consequences on the scenario they were playing with is not that far off.

I want you folks to remember, this movie actually compared their fiction to oh 1929, they missed the comparison to 1973 which makes sense... folks use movies like this one to go... hey you know waht middle america? This is not fiction...

One thing that bothered me to no end was the underlying religious tone, but oh well...

Otehrwise a good way to start the discusion
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funflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. For the cable-free, is FX a channel or what?
Blissfully ignorant....
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yep it is a channel in basic cable
Hey the teevee has gone on for the first time in literally momths if not years
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. Did you get the sense that the movie was intended, to some extent...
...to further enflame anti-Muslim sentiment and even, perhaps, to suggest that we should get military control of the Middle East before its too late?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yes yes I did
I was going ... out of page 65 of PNAC... so yes there was some of that

It was not bad overall if used correctly... but it could be seen as a propaganda movie... did yuo catch the references to FDR? I mean we were literally going... McGraff, Land and Freedom party (1880s) with some New Deal thrown in.

The Knowles were used to get you to think of our poor troops... I had to chuckle when they said, well it is not as dangerous as Iraq... ok... swifties, if we sent troops to Saudi I fear the place will explode.. they hinted at it, but not very well...

Oh and of cousre the news soruce FOX

But I still will make the contention good place to start the discusion
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. I agree. I also got the feeling that it was very much aimed at the...
...white Middle Class demographic. But, as a starting point, I hope that it will bring the topic to the national conversation.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yep definitely aimed at white middle class Americans
and Christian, that was the other kicker... now it is our job to steer the conversation to peak oil and alternate sources when people start talking round the cooler. The younger Knowles kid gives us the openign, as well as the medic...
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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I saw a bit of that as if to convey .....
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 01:09 AM by doublethink
"it's a good thing our military is over there protecting OUR oil pipelines" kinda trying to legitimatize that in a strange way. Even like you said get control of the Middle East Resources before this all takes place. Did they bring Oil Company Motives or Profits into the Picture? Hmmmmmmm ...... and thank God Bush is 'in' with the Saud's ..... Hmmmmmm and maybe we should DRILL for more oil at home, ANWR, etc... etc... The sitting around the table chit chats while Gas was over $8.75 a gallon, I mean the couple still had a 'fresh bowl of fruit' on the table. Odd way of presenting Peak Oil. Still trying to get my mind around this movies subtle hints, was waiting for other responses from DU'rs ? Peace. :)

on edit: is it too apparent I do not trust the FAUX network one bit? Haaaaaaa !!!
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. It was a very weird show
I watched FX's fake documentary show on smallpox and it was a bit more classy than this one. This just seemed like a freaking soap opera to promote Buscho's horrible foreign and energy policy.

My biased summary of the last half hour or so from the show:

Mom: Oh my son died for oil over in Saudi Arabia, so it's sad.

Dad: Yeah, we need more sources of domestic oil! Let's keep the oil flowing for my SUV even if it means more deaths of people like my son.

Port guy from Louisiana: Oh by the way, we should probably look at alternative fuel sources.

Dad: We should really concentrate on getting more oil from somewhere so I can get my gas station going again.

Hokey idiot farmer guy from North Dakota: I want my subsidies from Bush!

Narrator: Bushco saves the day and gets oil from Russia at $70+/barrel. Thank God there's an oil baron in the White House. The economy is in total shambles, but at least we've got some pricey oil flowing! He even restored the farm subsidies for that guy up in North Dakota.
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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Oh yea and the farmer even got out of Jail in a 'good will gesture' ..
by our be-loved president :wtf: ..... did the president use the Patriot Act to put him there in the first place? Missed that part of the show :think: ... and the farmer didn't complain one bit about his Civil Rights possibly being violated. I would have raised all hell in front of that camera upon my release !!! With Reverend Al Sharpton at my side !! Ha Ha ... but then that's just me. Shit my whole script for the movie would have been waaaaaaaayyyyy different :) Peace.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
32. I noticed the fresh fruit too and thought
I don't think so. It was the happy ending that ticked me off. Not going to happen that way.
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NEOBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. It's already too late if people think Mideast Oil can save us.
We can barely hold Iraq. Who the hell actually thinks we can conquer the rest of the Middle East?

Anyway, the US Military-Industrial complex is already breaking down faster than it can fix itself. Morale is totally shot and troops are going AWOL. We don't have the manpower or the material to keep it running for very much longer. Under present circumstances, a Draft wouldn't even guarantee the necessary manpower to keep this sorry episode going.

Maybe Peak Oil will bring down the whole lot of the vile bastards in the White House. When people here are waiting in line for hours for a gallon of gas, I'm sure that will shock many back into reality.
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Conservativesux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
8. Agree. Too much religion in this hokem story..
and it will go over most people's heads, IMO.

The SUV's and other gas gusslers will keep on driving until gas hits 4 or 5 bucks a gallon.
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Diogian Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
9. It was lame...
Waited all week to watch it and then went to watch the wheat being harvested before the movie was half way over.
Disappointing to say the least
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
10. Propaganda - but it may get people thinking.
Definitely not the DVD "End of Suburbia" or Kunstler's "The Long Emergency."

For the Sunday night time slot on FX - surprisingly good.

My one "take home" - it will take an "Oil Storm" catastrophe to initiate the kind of "Manhattan Project" effort that we need to actually face "Peak Oil." And it will take an "Oil Storm" catastrophe to take enough politics out of the "Manhattan Project" so that the "Manhattan Project" researches more then just the pet projects of powerful Congress critters in their districts.

And, it will probably take a generation of the aftermath of the catastrophe to bring our population out of the auto-dependent remote exurbs -- and back into the urban cores. Pedestrian friendly, transit friendly urban inner cores.

The things I did not like

-we have the military might and the military band width to project forces into Saudi Arabia.

-Russia and Saudi Arabia have are immune from "Peak Oil"

Heck - it completely ignored "Peak Oil"


-the solution is "political" and "Peak Oil" will be "solved" by diplomacy (John Bolton? Condi Rice? Rummie? Wolfie?) and not by tough conservation (38 mpg CAFE; abandoning auto-dependent and pedestrian unfriendly, extreme outer exurbs for transit-friendly, pedestrian-friendly, town house and apartment living in inner suburbs and the urban core cities). Yeah "Bushie" will save us.

- the "happy ending" where we cut a deal with Russia. They will be hit with the same "peak oil" and the same demands from the market.
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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Quite a diplomatic lineup we got there to handle this shit huh ...
(John Bolton? Condi Rice? Rummie? Wolfie?) yea we're doomed. :freak:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Well notice they mentioned shrubie twice
(ok three times... an oilman for president) and Condi once

Now the ruskie they had doing them negotiations, I am almost sure that aparatchtick was put in there to make muricans accept KGB aparatchitcks at DHS.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. You expect Bush/Cheney to come up with anything better
Their only idea is to drill off of California and in Alaska, and get rid of the tax break for hybrids.

What can you expect of the team that dismantled America's technological infrastructure?
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
17. The thing was a waste and full of mis-direction
It perpetuated the myth that we get our oil from the middle-east. Since most of oil is supplied by Canada and South America, this movie made no sense.

And they focused on that small farmer and his need for farm subsidies when over 90% of farm subsidies go to large corporations.

Plus that farmer's wife who said something about the last time anyone took to the streets and protested was way back in the 60/70's and she thought those people were nuts.


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theearthisround Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
18. There is more to the Peak oil tale... Check out this Peak oil expose...
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr70.html

excerpts:

This, my friends, is the harsh reality, so pay very close attention: the fact that 'Peak Oil' is an entirely manufactured construct does not mean that the doomsday scenarios painted by the 'Peak' crowd will therefore not become our new reality. This is not just another scam to further pad the pockets of the oil industry and other financial elites. The stakes are much higher than that. Much higher.

In order to clarify my position on 'Peak Oil,' it would be instructive to briefly review the areas of agreement, and the areas of disagreement, that I have with those who are selling the scam.

The Peakers claim that 'Peak Oil' is the single most important issue that we are facing today. I agree with that assessment (but not because 'Peak Oil' is a valid concept).

The Peakers claim that much of America's military might has been directed in recent years at conquering the key oil and gas producing regions of the world. And that is obviously quite true. Central Asia and Iraq have been seized, Venezuela has suffered through constant meddling by the CIA, the Sudan has been targeted for a future assault, and Saudi Arabia and Iran have been subjected to saber rattling.

But the Peakers also claim that these military ventures have been motivated by America's desire to seize what will soon be the last drops of the world's precious reserves of oil -- and that is entirely untrue.

The Peakers claim that we will very soon be facing a world where chaos reigns supreme -- a world of war, famine and death on a scale unknown in recorded human history. And that does, in fact, appear to be the case. And we're not talking about the distant future here, folks; we're talking about the very near future.

But the Peakers also claim that this global "die off" will be a regrettable, but quite natural, and entirely unavoidable, consequence of the world's oil taps running dry. And that is the really big lie. That is the lie that will very soon be used to rationalize the killing off of hundreds of millions, possibly billions, of the world's people. There are, you see, simply too many people in the world who, by merely being alive, are standing in the way of the aspirations of the global elite.

The people that the 'Peak Oil' pitchmen are fronting for are deadly serious about selling 'Peak Oil' to the masses -- and not just in theoretical terms, as a cynical ploy to raise prices and increase profits. No, it has become clear that the real goal is to actually cut off most of the world's oil supplies under the ruse that the oil simply no longer exists. The desired result is massive social unrest, widespread famine, and endless war. The majority of the world's people will not survive. Those that do will find themselves living under the overtly authoritarian form of rule that will quickly be deemed necessary to restore order. And if you think that we here in America are exempt, you are sadly mistaken.

In order to pull off this stunt, all the world's major oil producing regions must be solidly under the control of the U.S. and it's co-conspirators, otherwise known as 'allies.' In other words, the puppet-masters have to control all the major oil taps, so that they have complete control over the flow of oil -- or lack of it. And that, in a nutshell, is the real reason for America's recent military ventures. The goal, you see, is not to steal Iraq's oil, or the oil in the 'Stans, or in the Sudan, or in Venezuela, or anywhere else. We don't want to take their oil, because the truth is that we don't really need it (http://www.oilandgasreporter.com/stories/090101/cov_opinions.shtml). What we want to do is sit on the taps so no one else can get to the oil.

--------

Saudi officials announced on April 28 that the Kingdom's estimate of recoverable reserves had nearly quintupled! (The article below says "tripled," but the math isn't that hard to do.)

Saudi Oil Is Secure and Plentiful, Say Officials
Tim Kennedy, Arab News
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=6§ion=0&article=44011&d=29&m=4&y=2004



WASHINGTON, 29 April 2004 — Officials from Saudi Arabia’s oil industry and the international petroleum organizations shocked a gathering of foreign policy experts in Washington yesterday with an announcement that the Kingdom’s previous estimate of 261 billion barrels of recoverable petroleum has now more than tripled, to 1.2 trillion barrels.

Additionally, Saudi Arabia’s key oil and finance ministers assured the audience — which included US Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan — that the Kingdom has the capability to quickly double its oil output and sustain such a production surge for as long as 50 years.

<...>

“Saudi Arabia now has 1.2 trillion barrels of estimated reserve. This estimate is very conservative. Our analysis gives us reason to be very optimistic. We are continuing to discover new resources, and we are using new technologies to extract even more oil from existing reserves,” the minister said.

Naimi said Saudi Arabia is committed to sustaining the average price of $25 per barrel set by the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries. He said prices should never increase to more than $28 or drop under $22.

<...>

“Saudi Arabia’s vast oil reserves are certainly there,” Naimi added. “None of these reserves requires advanced recovery techniques. We have more than sufficient reserves to increase output. If required, we can increase output from 10.5 million barrels a day to 12 - 15 million barrels a day. And we can sustain this increased output for 50 years or more. There will be no shortage of oil for the next 50 years. Perhaps much longer.”


Note that the oil reserves claimed by Saudi Arabia alone (1.2 trillion barrels) exceed what the Peakers claim are the total recoverable oil reserves for the entire planet. Let's pause here for a minute and think about the significance of that: one tiny patch of land, accounting for less than than 1/2 of 1% of the earth's total surface area, potentially contains more oil that the 'Peak' pitchmen claim the entire planet has to offer! Is there not something clearly wrong with this picture?

--------

Meanwhile, Mexico, which also hasn't been reading the 'Peak' memos, recently announced the discovery of massive quantities of new petroleum reserves. The Peakers, as we all know, repeatedly claim that no new reserves of any consequence have been found for years. In fact, they go so far as to say that there are no new reserves to be found. In one recent collection of lies posted on the FTW website, Julian Darley writes: "Major oil discoveries have declined every year so that 2003 saw no new field over 500 million barrels ... It is well over twenty years since more oil was found than consumed in a year."
(http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/031704_two_planets.html)

Really, Mr. Darley? Are you sure about that? Let's check with the Mexican press to see if you are correct:

Three years of exploration has enabled Pemex to map oilfields that the state-owned oil monopoly believes will more than double the nation's known crude oil reserves. Luis Ramírez Corzo, Pemex's director for exploration, told EL UNIVERSAL that on a "conservative" estimate, almost 54 billion barrels lie underneath the oilfields. That would take Mexico's reserves to 102 billion barrels, more than the United Arab Emirates (which has reserves of 97.8 billion barrels), Kuwait (94 billion) and Iran (89.7 billion), and almost as much as Iraq (112.5 billion). The official also said the discovery could enable Pemex to increase Mexico's oil production from the current level of 4 million barrels per day (bpd) to 7 million bpd. Saudi Arabia currently produces 7.5 million bpd, while Russia's oil output is 7.4 million bpd. Ramírez Corzo said the exploration, at an investment of US 4.6 billion, led to the identification of seven separate blocks rich in oil and natural gas. The most promising blocks are under water in the Gulf of Mexico, thought to contain around 45 billion barrels.
(http://www.el-universal.com.mx/pls/impreso/noticia.html?id_nota=6110&tabla=miami)

No new fields over 500 million barrels? How about the 45 billion new barrels sitting in the Gulf of Mexico, right in our own backyard? Isn't that just a tiny bit more than is "consumed in a year"?

Of course, the oil will not be easy to extract. Mexico will need some help, since it "lacks the technology for deep water pumping." And there is another problem as well: "there are territoriality issues with the United States and Cuba over the fields." In order to bring the oil to market, Mexico will need the cooperation of both the United States government and the major players in the oil industry. In other words, the newly discovered oil isn't going to be extracted any time soon, which is why the American media, and the 'Peak' crowd, haven't bothered to acknowledge its existence.
(http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=15958)

It will no doubt be determined that it is not economically feasible to extract the oil in the Gulf of Mexico. After all, Reuters has reported that, "Oil from deep-water reserves could cost $4 a barrel to extract, nearly double the cost of oil from shallow water." And we certainly can't expect any responsible corporation to shell out $4 a barrel to extract something that they can then trade for $50 a barrel, can we?

(continued) http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr70.html
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Davesweb lives in a parallel universe
Have to disagree -

I think the statement "But the Peakers also claim that these military ventures have been motivated by America's desire to seize what will soon be the last drops of the world's precious reserves of oil -- and that is entirely untrue." is a simplistic half-truth - it's all about hegemony to the neocons.

The statement "The Peakers claim that we will very soon be facing a world where chaos reigns supreme -- a world of war, famine and death on a scale unknown in recorded human history. And that does, in fact, appear to be the case. And we're not talking about the distant future here, folks; we're talking about the very near future." is an overstatement of Kunstler - and I think Kunstler is exaggerating a it. (More then just a little bit).

I have to atack the statement "But the Peakers also claim that this global "die off" will be a regrettable, but quite natural, and entirely unavoidable, consequence of the world's oil taps running dry. And that is the really big lie. That is the lie that will very soon be used to rationalize the killing off of hundreds of millions, possibly billions, of the world's people. There are, you see, simply too many people in the world who, by merely being alive, are standing in the way of the aspirations of the global elite." as being another comnspiracy.

The last two paragraphs clinch it - conspiracy theory.

I checked out "davesweb" --- I will stick with my "Byrd, Stewart and Lightfoot" - thank you very much.

          ----


Here's some more serious reading--->



The Geology
1. Anthony Evans, "An Introduction to Economic Geology and Its Environmental Impact"

2. Kenneth Deffeyes, "Beyond Oil : The View from Hubbert's Peak"

3. Kenneth Deffeyes, "Hubbert's Peak : The Impending World Oil Shortage"

4. David Goodstein, "Out of Gas: The End of the Age Of Oil"

5. Daniel Yergin, "Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money, and Power."

6. Matthew Simmons, "Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy" (Just started it it this weekend)






The Political Will and Power To Hide the Truth

1. Craig Unger, "House of Bush, House of Saud : The Secret Relationship Between the World's Two Most Powerful Dynasties"

2. Gerald Posner, "Secrets of the Kingdom: The Inside Story of the Secret Saudi-U.S. Connection"

3. William Engdahl, "A Century Of War : Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order."

4. Avi Shlaim, "War and Peace in the Middle East: A Concise History"

5. John Keay, "Sowing the Wind: The Seeds of Conflict in the Middle East"

6. James Howard Kuntsler, "The Long Emergency: Surviving the End of the Oil Age, Climate Change, and Other Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-first Century"
    I don't buy into his thesis - overly pessimistic and overly Malthusian - recommend Lovins and Hawken for a more balanced view


7. Peter Hawken, "The Ecology of Commerce: A Declaration of Sustainability"

8. Amory Lovins and Peter Hawken, "Natural Capitalism: Creating the Next Industrial Revolution"



          ----


    I speak with biases and disabilities and severe conflicts of interest.
    Bias: I have worked in alternative, renewable, and clean energy for 30 plus of my 40 plus years in engineering.

    Disability - I have BS, MS, and PhD degrees in engineering - and I do NOT have a blog


    Conflict of interest - I drive a Prius, and I have stock in small companies in the photovoltaics, fuel cell, and high energy density battery fields. And, I provide consulting engineering services in those fields.
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. Alternate energy is here/They have to sell oil while the getting is good
JMO But there is currently probably technology to make oil almost obsolete (or they know it's a decade away)

Our friends in the bush reich (including the saudi's et al) need to suck every last dime they can get out of the remaining oil which is why they floated the peak oil hysteria onto Faux's airwaves last night.

I have no proof of the preceding but with bush and company this stuff is always dollar driven...and the fact that this propaganda piece was run just confirmed what I was already suspecting.

Imagine what will happen to the fat cats around the globe when oil is a worthless commodity?
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. The technology to make oil obsolete as a motor fuel has been here
since the first car rolled down the dirt roads.

The first cars were electric cars -- they lost out to the gasoline cars because Henry Ford saw "the market" as farmers (1908) - but Rural Electrification didn't come until FDR.

The Germans improved on a turn of the century process to make gasoline and diesel fuel from coal during World War 2. It's called "Fischer-Tropsch Gas Synthesis" - and "Big Oil" is well protected. ExxonMobil has over 400 patents on the fine points of making gasoline, diesel, and lubricants from coal by the Fischer Tropsch process. ChevronTexaco has almost 200 patents on other fine points of making gasoline, diesel, and lubricants from coal by the Fischer Tropsch process.

BP Sohio and Shell each have hundreds of patents on photovoltaics (solar energy). TexacoChevron and Shell have massive patent portfolios on "hydrogen economy" (fuel cells).

Explore: Put any oil company name in the "Term 1" block and slide the field to "Assignee Name" -- and any energy related term in the term 2 block (or leave it blank) and hit "search."

Peak oil is real - but the big boys are getting their ducks in order - and their cross license deals - and the joint venture deals, etc. -- for the next universal fuel (or fuels).
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. I agree and I actually knew that because I used to work for a big three co
I was too lazy to explain and type all my rationale but I hear you and agree 100%!

BTW you probably know of Robert Stemple?

I believe he was the head of GM (maybe just NA operations I have forgotten) If you google him you will see that he is now CEO of a fuel cell company (I think it's fuel cells it's one of the new technologies)

I could not agree more with your post but you said it so much better than I did!

I also agree that peak oil is real (if things continue on the same course and if the fools plan to continue to try to hold back the newer technologies)

What I guess I really meant to say is... that I believe, that currently the peak oil issue is being pushed by the cons all of a sudden, because the bushites know their days of cashing in on oil are numbered and they have to do something. I only hope that they have not suppressed things for so long that we cannot recover.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Stemple is CEO of Stan Ovsinsky's "Ovonics" - ECD
Very big in human friendly photovoltaics, and in NiMH batteries.

Stan's photovoltaics use "amorphous" (non-crystalline) silicon on a flexible substrate. Very easy to handle and install.

The NiMH batteries were the "enabling" technology for cell phones, lap top computers, and hybrid cars. Much more environmentally friendly then the old (toxic) Ni-Cds.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. What, no "abiotic oil"?
:eyes:
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
21. I thought its shortcomings overcame its strengths overall...
Perhaps the greatest shortcoming was the idea that everything would simply return to "life as normal" -- except, of course, for being able to drive your gas-guzzler SUV for every errand longer than 1/10 mile. The reality is that if there were ever a significant disruption to the flow of cheap oil to the United States, our economy would essentially collapse.

I don't think it adequately portrayed the hardships from an end of cheap oil. I mean, in the initial shocks, there would literally be people starving to death across the country. That wasn't covered.

Also, I think it was meant to reinforce the idea that we somehow have a "right" to cheap oil, simply because it is needed to maintain our global position.

All that being said, we can at least hope that for those who saw this movie without a knowledge of "peak oil", that it will at least make them somewhat more receptive to the subject.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Hmm actually it did show the consequences
albeit not as well as it could have

Those bare store shelves for christmas and the Knowles going to church for Xmas (and for heat) was part of it, the other was the medic's monm dying from the cold.

They COULD and SHOULD have pointed out that this would have happened faster... because of just in time warehousing models, but they did... it was just you had to dig for it. Oh and life never returning to normal, lemme see four and change dollar a gallon WILL change driving habits... and you betcha Hybrids will become the rage.

Hey they also showed an administration that was quite incompetent...

that we know it is true.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. It didn't adequately display the severity of the consequences...
That was one of my big problems with it.

With the truckers' strike, food would have been emptied off the supermarket shelves literally in days. Following that, you would have had mass starvation beginning, especially in urban centers.

Inadequate heating was portrayed as a problem for the elderly. It would actually become a big problem for all of the urban poor. It wouldn't just be elderly people freezing to death -- it would be little kids and people in the prime of their lives, depending upon the severity of the winter.

And the ending was quite far-fetched, IMHO. There would be no return to "normalcy" after such an event. Nor would Russia be able to boost their capacity to flood our markets with their oil, especially since it is their national policy to hold their reserves rather than pump them.
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CabalPowered Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
22. Did anyone else notice the "The Radicals" poster in ...
the kid's room. He was the only person that said maybe America should wake up and end the dependence on oil. In every one of his pseudo-interview segments he had a "The Radicals" poster behind him. Nice subliminal trick, lousy piece of propaganda..

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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. Good catch ......
I'll have to check it out on the re-run. Weird Movie overall, and way too 'life is so surreal suburbia calm here at home at the end of it' for me. I mean the woman lost her child for oil, oh well life goes on. Geesh... :) Peace.
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
23. 40' motor home pulling a Hummer H2
that's what i saw this weekend, when i wasn't listening to ski doos rampage all over the lake we were staying on, shattering any peace &/or quiet.

no one is going to WTFU in this country, ever. i had to fill our we-only-take-it-on-trips-now Explorer twice @ $50/per tank to get there & back.

Oil Storm was a giant f-ing joke, and the voice-over guy (who normally does Frontline, right?) should be ashamed.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
26. For the first time ever, I have to disagree with nadin
This film was classic right wing propoganda. Take a legitimate issue, then frame the debate with lies so that the seeds of confusion are sown. I watched it with a very critical eye and here are a few of the things I noticed.

1. George Bush will protect us and solve our problems
2. God will take care of us
3. Start hating China
4. Pass cheney's energy plan and drill the piss out of the US.

No, I have to disagree. The movie did an incredible dis-service to its viewers and was a naked promotion of the conservative agenda. Not surprising that FX is a Murdock channel.
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. But if they had shown "End of Suburbia"
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 12:44 PM by Coastie for Truth
and "fast forward" a generation at the end to show--

Electric Mini-Coopers and Electric Crosleys
Town houses and garden apartments
    In URBAN neighborhoods, with sidewalks, and neighborhood schools and neighborhood shopping -- all close to mass transit

Intensive recycling of all organics
    --Lovins and Hawken, Natural Capitalism: Creating the Next Industrial Revolution
    --including fuels from anaerobically digested sewage and farm waste plus all of the scientific papers from Googling the cited , Bug Power
    Waste-gobbling bacteria may be our dream ticket to clean renewable energy, and the conference proceedings

The FX viewers would have clicked over to CSI or Law and Order.

I give it a passing grade for showing our complete dependency on cheap oil,

and a failing grade for mischaracterizing the problem and solution as essentially political or military -- with a "drill more" and "buy from Russia" solution (a complete ignorance of geology, thermo, chemistry, and engineering -- but what can you expect where a plurality of the (scientifically illiterate) flat earth society sheeple "believe" in "creation" or "intelligent design.").
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. I thought so too. Big Bush propaganda machine.
When I read Murdock was behind it, I wondered. But never thought they'd pull a 2 hour republican fest to get their points across. Could this be why dubya is so freakin quiet about Usbek and still lookin into Putin's soul?
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
34. i'm watching it now.....
i don't see all the religious hokem so many people saw....but i'm a little under halfway thru.


what i find interesting is the number of times "cheap oil" was mentioned.



i'm not sure what FX is playing at - now they've got a new show "Over There" coming. it looks like it's about iraq - and might be somewhat clsoe to reality. But i'm not sure.
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