I will say something that Governor Dean cannot say...

[kentuck]

This entire Administration is a bunch of criminals. Republicans are criminal. Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Rice....all of them. They lie us into war. They lie about their policy goals - no matter if it is Social Security or the "death" taxes or whatever - they lie about it. Their lies are criminal because people suffer and die because of them. And they cover their tracks by destroying any documents that might incriminate or convict them. Just like Enron, rules are made for other people. They are a criminal Party.

[trotsky]

1. Nominated. Well said. n/t

[bryant69]

2. That is an interesting question

Should Dean be saying this? Would it be an effective statement?

I will say while you call the criminals your statement focuses on the lies they have told. Lying isn't technically criminal (though perhaps, given the weight of some of thse lies, it should be).

No question they are a bunch of filthy liars though.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Marnieworld]

13. war crimes not lies

just the conduct of our "gulags" and the deliberate intention to ignore the Geneva Conventions, detailed in their own communications which we have, is enough to try them as war criminals. They knew this and that is why they tried to find a way around the illegality. The Geneva Conventions is part of an international treaty that the US is a signatory to and all treaties become our laws. The penalty for treason of this nature can legally be death. It is so more than lies but even so, if a deliberate conspiracy to go to war based on lies, and these lies caused the death of tens of thousands is it really "just" a lie?

[Deep13]

3. I suggest a new Franken book:

Crimes and the criminal criminals who commit them.

[Califooyah Operative]

4. haha, that made me laught nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

14. I'll buy it!

[Roland99]

5. Not all Republicans are criminals

And, there are criminals on the Democrat's side, too. And, I would bet in other 3rd-parties, too.

Generalizing is never really the best way to engage in debate.


That said, this administration *has* engaged in actions and policies that have been extremely harmful to the welfare of this great nation!

[Vincardog]

10. This entire Administration is not all republicans

The PNAC Kabul has lied to the Republicans too. They have committed Crimes against humanity as well as crimes against nature. They 'This entire Administration' are in fact CRIMINALS.

[Pacifist Patriot]

16. I'm leary of that too, but I would have no problem saying two things.

PNAC is comprised of dangerous criminals.

The Bush Administration is comprised of dangerous criminals.

[Roland99]

30. I would agree 100% with that!

[AuntiBush]

47. No, but again the Republicans are voting for Brown in-line.

Following their "Pied Piper..." What happened to those brave "7?"

[MojoXN]

6. Well, Dean COULD say those things...

If the Edwards of the party would quit worrying about the Democratic 'image'. Fuck image! This pragmatist says that the more vocal Dean is, the better. It's time to fight fire with fire.

MojoXN

[nightfox02]

11. Agreed. He could and should. That is the truth isnt it...

A long time ago most politicians abandoned caring about truth and only worrying about their own ass.

That isnt the way it is supposed to work. He should and could say this. They are criminals. Why should we be ashamed or even worried to admit that when the facts clearly support us?

I for one dont want to be on the wrong side of history when we are judged by what we have done....

[GreenArrow]

7. actually he could say it

and it probably wouldn't be any more divisive than saying most Republicans have never worked an honest day in their lives. And it would be true, which is not the case with what he did say, which is simply insulting to a good many people.

[Marnieworld]

8. War criminals that should be tried , convicted and sentenced to death

Though I would accept detention in Abu Ghraib or Guantanomo.

[whistle]

9. I agree totally, now what is needed is evidence on the level of....

...the White House tapes which brought the Nixon administration down. Unfortunately, it can't be here-say evidence which is what the Downing Street Report consists of. It has to be in Bush's own words just like we heard Nixon speak in his own words on tape. Or, we need not one but three "Deep Throats" who will all come forward and testify under oath against these thugs.

[Alpharetta]

15. Exactly my feelings on the Downing Street minutes

The minutes are this: Notes about a meeting where no evidence was introduced.

That is not a smoking gun. It is grounds for questioning the meeting attendees. Unfortunately for America, I don't think the Democrats or the Tories have enough power to force the attendees to answer questions about why they made statements that the invasion of Iraq was not justified but still inevitable.

[Just Me]

17. The minutes prove intentional deception.

The administration intentionally deceived and manipulated the American people into an unecessary war.

If that doesn't constitute "high crimes and misdemeanors" we might as well burn the Constitution and hand America over to the most corrupt among us.

[Alpharetta]

32. the minutes don't prove that. they are only evidence. how strong?

The minutes lead us to believe a meeting happened where people said Bush was faking evidence to go to war.

We may have witnesses to the meeting. Can we force them to testify? Unlikely.

Those who made statements Bush was fixing evidence. Can we force them to provide proof? Unlikely.

Not much of a case yet.

[kentuck]

33. Richard Clark did...

He said the same thing in his testimony. Bush asked him personally.

[Alpharetta]

36. Clark's testimony was not sufficient evidence, it appears

Perhaps taped meetings would be stronger evidence.

Or meeting minutes signed by the attendees so the attendees are attesting to the accuracy of the minutes.

[bpilgrim]

21. how bout meeting MINUTES in combination with WITNESS TESTIMONY

as well as other corroborating evidence.

watch the movie: UNCOVERED: The truth about the war in Iraq.

plenty of witnesses there.

:hi:

peace

[Alpharetta]

35. Witnesses are not proof.

In courts, evidence is weighed according to its strength.

A movie depicts a crime. That does not mean the movie proves a crime occurred or proves the depicted perpetrator is guilty.

===

Why am I arguing this? I want to temper DU's enthusiasm that a smoking gun has been found. It hasn't.

[bpilgrim]

43. minutes, witnesses, motivation, actions, plenty of PROOF

and the meeting MINUTES is a smoking gun that ties it all together.

peace

[Me.]

40. Well This Is Not At The Watergate Level

But wasn't there something in Woodward's book on *ush that said that by Nov. 21, 2001, *ush had made up his mind to invade Iraq? I haven't read the book, but a friend said this is so. If true, why has no one in the media paid attention to that?

[skylarmae]

12. nominated - thanks kentuck!

my feelings are first hand as my rather large family is almost ALL repukes...

[Freddie Stubbs]

18. Oh course Dean can say that

He just has enough sense to realize that saying it would make him look shrill.

[lonestarnot]

19. Dean can say dat! Dean can say truth as truth is always a perfect defense

[Squeech]

20. I couldn't agree more

There are aspects of the Iraq war that are clearly violations of law. What was it, something like $18 billion from the previous Iraq supplemental appropriation can't be traced? Where the hell did that money go? What reason do we have to think that the next $82 billion won't end up in the same pockets, or numbered Swiss bank accounts? Why is Halliburton getting performance awards for such activities as serving in its commissaries food that would never pass inspection in an American restaurant, and driving trucks full of "sailboat fuel" (i.e. air, i.e. they were empty) from place to place and billing that back to the taxpayer? Who benefits from these scams, and why are they being allowed to continue? (Remember when they found a relic from the looting of the Iraq museum *in Rummy's office*?)

Then there's the extremely selective enforcement of environmental law, securities law, workers' rights, civil rights, the way they misuse Homeland Security, etc. etc. etc. All of the above is impeachable in my book.

[understandinglife]

22. What you state is true. Everyone should speak the truth. Everyone.

As that is the only way we can prevent more of:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3788018&mesg_id=3788018

and, this:


Emad Hajjaj, Al-Ghad Newspaper, Amman, Jordan

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - how ever long it takes, the day must come when tens of millions of caring individuals peacefully but persistently defy the dictator, deny the corporatists cash flow, and halt the evil being done in Iraq and in all the other places the Bu$h neoconster regime is destroying civilization and the environment in the name of "America."

[dmr]

25. That pic is ingenious

It's actually a work of stimulating art. It makes me want to cry.

Did you create this? Whoever did, is absolutely brilliant!

[understandinglife]

28. Agreed. It was created by Emad Hajjaj, as noted below the picture.

And appeared in Al-Ghad Newspaper, Amman, Jordan.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[Protagoras]

23. Thank you

but I'd use the term Neocon instead of Republican because a lot of regular people are republicans and are just ignorant...not criminal, whereas all the Neocons I'm aware of are criminal.

[kentuck]

29. Ignorance of the law is no excuse...

They are accomplices to the criminals in power.

[kster]

24. This may be true, but

There is a bigger picture and Dean and the Dem's have to be quite for now,their are Honest Republicans who we need with us right now, in order to take back our country. It will all be over soon. (My 2 cents)

[nightfox02]

26. we dont need to be quiet...are you kidding me?

Why do we constantly try to shut ourselves up? We have a voice people lets use it and stop trying to roll the dice of political timing. How much more can we afford to lose here?

We need to be loud as fuck! Damnit, there are way too many weak dems here and in general...

Edwards, Biden....et all...

If I could clone more Conyers and Boxers and Deans I think I would....

[kster]

42. Go here

http://www.dembloggers.com/ scroll down to the this video

(Video - CNN Confirms That They Won't Stop Bashing Dean)

You are correct WE should be screaming as loud as fuck. The leaders have to be careful.

[immoderate]

27. Yeah, but why do they lie?? -- So they can steal!!!

Their war is just a way of filtering money into the military industrial complex. So they can produce useless weapons systems, like fighter planes that render pilots unconscious with g forces, or anti-missile systems that couldn't swat a fly.

Their legal reforms are to allow corporations to sell dangerous and ineffective products with impunity.

Their medical solutions are ways of getting money to brokers and middlemen and keeping medical expenses high.

--IMM

[kentuck]

31. Most people know that they lied about WMDs, etc....but

they think it was "unintentional". This memo shows, along with the testimony of Richard Clark, that the lies were "intentional" and people have suffered and died because of those "lies". That makes it criminal. If you recall, Bush asked Clark to more or less, "fix" the intelligence for the invasion of Iraq. (Read the lead editorial on Buzzflash - it is mentioned)

[nightfox02]

34. unintentional just as 1st invasion in GWOT being iraq not coincidental

my ass!

Iraq needed to be invaded because Sadamn tried to kill my daddy...

Most people need God's Help obviously....if that is the case...

[mittenlandgirl]

37. Republicans are criminal?

you are saying over 50 million voters who consider themselves republican are criminal??? for shame for shame...

:sarcasm:



sorry, I think I was channeling wolfie for a minute there...ugh

[kentuck]

44. If you drive the car...

and you thought the criminal was going to get you some tacos but he went down the street and robbed a bank, you are an accomplice. Just as every Republican voter who thinks they are getting tacos.

[fob]

38. I don't think I've come across a Kentuck thread I've disagreed with

and this one is not gonna spoil that record either!

Republicans ARE Criminals.

Now we all know that's an overly broad statement, but if that upsets the rank and file republicans then it's up to THEM to kick their CRIMINAL leadership out on their CRIMINAL asses.

[FSogol]

39. I remember a Matt Groening cartoon

a few years back where a kid asked his Dad, "Dad, if you vote Republican, does that make you an accomplice to their crimes?"

[KnowerOfLogic]

41. Agreed, but dems aren't much better. That's the real problem. nt

[rndmprsn]

45. AMEN!

[AuntiBush]

46. I'll say it too! The entire BUSH ADM are EVIL CROOKS! IMPEACH TIME

Bechtel

Lockheed Martin

Enron

Halliburton: Reported by the Baltimore Sun News paper this weekend, with a photo of one of their trucks carrying liquid nitrogen in the Midwest by that Natl Park (paper not near me), Halliburton rec'd over 1,200 plus permits to drill for oil last year and they're drilling now! http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/about_hal/overview.html

War in Iraq ALL LIES!

World hates us!

Robbing the Social Security Treasury willfully, purposely!

Grandfather Prescott Bush taken down by FDR: That's why he's against the New Deal/FDR.

Bush, Cheney and all his henchmen/women hate America, including all the judges he's pushing for appointment.

Bolton: Man to push horrible red buttons and take us into the worse.

World hate us.

Bush smirks at us! He's a disgrace! A Liar!

Divided us like NEVER BEFORE! This has never been done by any President, ever in the history of America.

People are waking-up on the other side. Hope it's not too late.