The RW Canard - "All global Intel thought Saddam had WMD or program"

[bpilgrim]

so that shows bush wasn't lying"

1. that is not true, and is part of the reason why many didn't join.
2. our own Intel didn't agree with their public statements, put in OSP to FIX it though
3. inspectors were sent in to verify and actively BLOCKED then ordered OUT by US
4. millions protested the world over
5. bush ignored them all, even the UN which has since said the war is ILLEGAL, and went in anyways
6. we are not the worlds police and have no right to attack any country not a threat to us or our allies, WMD or not.

WHY are they allowed to get away with this in the M$M?!?

i know, they don't bite the hand that feeds them but even our side seems to let them get away with too often as well.

anyways, whats your RW BS SMACK-DOWN :evilgrin:

:hi:

peace

[aden_nak]

1. Well, they did fire anyone who disagreed with them. :P

[johnaries]

2. Yep, here's a post I did earlier with a link

Russia called our Intel "propaganda". France called it "phony"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3790179&mesg_id=3790622&page=

[whistle]

3. The repukes own M$M

[BlueEyedSon]

4. The movie "Uncovered" featured MANY career intel analysts

who said Blix & co were right. All the dissenters were silenced or fired. The then newly-created OSP (Office of Special Plans) cooked up conclusions that were exactly what the admin wanted, and which became the official version.

Colin Powell himself initially refused to present his pack of lies to the UN, literally calling it "bullshit."

source: http://www.blah3.com/graymatter/archives/00000170.html

on edit: we must assume the Brits had the same negative intel (no WMDs in Iraq) if they were a party to the DSM discussion, otherwise that conversation would never have happened.



http://www.truthuncovered.com/

[bpilgrim]

5. no M$MW talks about the OSP unless to explain it away...

another HUGE smoking gun.

thanks all keep coming :toast:

peace

[fujiyama]

7. You're absolutely right

The silence is deafening.

I don't recall hearing once in the corporate media about the administration creating an agency, while circumventing and ignoring the CIA, to blatantly feed itself what it wanted to hear.

[EFerrari]

6. Not even Bu$h believed it or why did he order the FBI to find

dirt on Hans Blix?

[bpilgrim]

29. so much evidence so little time

peace

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. How does "our side" tell their side of the story when the press is....

...controlled by the political rightwing?

[bpilgrim]

11. thank GORE he 'INVENTED' the INTERNETs ;-)

and we gotta CONTINUE to call in and/or write to all the media we can and pass the word ourselves.

we gotta give FREE talking points and encouragement to our leaders, no matter the party but especially progressives who are more likely to be responsive.

it is certainly a huge challenge but we are making a lot of headway in getting the other side of the story out there ;->

:hi:


http://images.globalfreepress.com

peace

[Norquist Nemesis]

9. My RW smack down

When you decide to wake up from la la land and face the truth, we'll talk.

[bpilgrim]

13. lol

very difficult to have discussion with an entrenched know-nothing with a terminal righteous death-grip on their ignorance ;->

:hi:

peace

[bryant69]

10. Well they usually change the story

If you had been betting in early 2002 the way to bet would have been that he had some sort of WMD program. I don't remember anybody Democratic or Republican saying anything else. The question was is such a program a threat to the United States? Can the goal of protecting the United States be accomplished without going to war?

Bush was clear; he wanted war. He denies it of course, but his goal was not to protect America from Iraq, but, instead, to invade Iraq. Bush wanted to send our troops into combat and preferred that to letting the inspectors finish their job.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[bpilgrim]

14. i'm talking GLOBAL opinion as well

and there was dissent, which was correct, and bush ignored the world focus group even our own Intel which is a RW BS talking-point that is always raised and I think shouldn't be given in to.

but you raise another excellent point that folks wanted to handle this situation through containment and inspections which bush ignored as well, in spite of other states ESCALATING their actual programs didn't deter him to RUSH to war.

we must shoot down ALL their CANARDS as quickly as they come up then go into our more detailed narrative.

peace

[radwriter0555]

12. The entire "Saddam Had WMDs" farce is based on this 1998 White House

Report;

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/bm-threat.htm

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
of the
REPORT
of the
COMMISSION TO ASSESS
THE BALLISTIC MISSILE THREAT
TO THE UNITED STATES

July 15, 1998

Pursuant to Public Law 201
104th Congress

Members of
The Commission To Assess the Ballistic Missile Threat
to the United States were nominated by the
Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives,
the Majority Leader of the U.S. Senate and the
Minority Leaders of the U.S. Senate and the
U.S. House of Representatives

The Honorable Donald H. Rumsfeld, Chairman
Dr. Barry M. Blechman
General Lee Butler, USAF (Ret.)
Dr. Richard L. Garwin
Dr. William R. Graham
Dr. William Schneider, Jr.
General Larry D. Welch, USAF (Ret.)
Dr. Paul D. Wolfowitz
The Honorable R. James Woolsey
and appointed by the
Director of Central Intelligence

Iraq is mentioned 30 times. That's THIRTY TIMES. NO OTHER organization or nation has made ANY bona fide accusations OR investigations into Iraq's allleged capabilities WITHOUT REFERRING TO THIS DOCUMENT.

It's important to note who the Chairman is.



c. Iraq

Iraq has maintained the skills and industrial capabilities needed to reconstitute its long range ballistic missile program. Its plant and equipment are less developed than those of North Korea or Iran as a result of actions forced by UN Resolutions and monitoring. However, Iraq has actively continued work on the short range (under 150 km) liquid- and solid-fueled missile programs that are allowed by the Resolutions. Once UN-imposed controls are lifted, Iraq could mount a determined effort to acquire needed plant and equipment, whether directly or indirectly. Such an effort would allow Iraq to pose an ICBM threat to the United States within 10 years. Iraq could develop a shorter range, covert, ship-launched missile threat that could threaten the United States in a very short time.

Iraq had a large, intense ballistic missile development and production program prior to the Gulf War. The Iraqis produced Scuds, and then modified Scud missiles to produce the 600 km range Al Hussein and 900 km range Al Abbas missiles. The expertise, as well as some of the equipment and materials from this program remain in Iraq and provide a strong foundation for a revived ballistic missile program.

Prior to the invasion of Kuwait in 1990, Iraq could have had nuclear weapons in the 1993-1995 time frame, although it still had technical hurdles to overcome. After the invasion of Kuwait, Iraq began a crash program to produce a nuclear device in six to nine months based on highly enriched uranium removed from the safeguarded reactor at Tuwaitha. Iraq has the capability to reconstitute its nuclear weapon program; the speed at which it can do so depends on the availability of fissile material. It would take several years to build the required production facilities from scratch. It is possible that Iraq has hidden some material from U.N. Special Commission (UNSCOM) inspection, or that it could acquire fissile material abroad (e.g., from another "rogue" state.) Iraq also had large chemical and biological weapons programs prior to the war, and produced chemical and biological warheads for its missiles. Knowledge, personnel, and equipment related to WMD remain in Iraq, so that it could reconstitute these programs rapidly following the end of sanctions.

[TWiley]

17. Great Link ! Thank you. n/t

[bpilgrim]

19. so the PNAC thugs were all in agreement and they think that constitutes

the 'world' view... typical of the CRAZIES tunnel vision/CARTOON worldview

thanks for the info :toast:

peace

[OffWithTheirHeads]

15. The fact that they were stupid

is NOT an excuse!

[KharmaTrain]

16. Disconnect Reality...Insert Revisionism

First...get on the same page here. The latest regime mantra is that we're helping those poor Iraqis save their country from their own best interests.

WMD? WMD? They're still there in wingnut land. They're in Syria. Remember all those trucks that streamed across the border...the wingnuts have tons of "experts" who will attest this is where they are. So WMD is still the issue, just now it's in Syria...why Assad has to go next.

Also, our allies knew Iraq had WMD...Bill Clinton's Clenis told them so. No matter if one of those who supposedly had chemical weapons was Al Zarquawi...who hated Saddam as much, if not worse than we did...and we let him get away...but then we've killed him several times since. :headspin:

The narrative in wingnut land twists by the day now as they invent new reasons, bogie men and justifications for being complicit in an immoral and dirty war. They still like it, want more and be damned with history or facts, this is shear power on power. Their ignorance and selfishness will continue to lie and avoid responsibility and Americans will continue to die. Shameless.

[bpilgrim]

20. lol

very true... changing all the time :crazy:

but since WMD always comes up whenever you discuss our decision to go in, and since it was the major point (that and terrorism) they used to market & sell it to everyone i think it is important not to let that slide, which most commentators, i hear, do. and you make another good point in regards to their BS follow up talking point... 'they were moved' which should be handled easily by saying if he had them why wouldn't he use them in self defense, it doesn't make any sense, why have them if your not gonna use them... actually that there were no WMD's used - cept by us 'DU' - should be all the evidence anyone needs to know for sure that there were never any WMDs.

these points are not complicated and that is why i am always surprised how the M$MW's and commentators let them get away with their BS even after all this time :crazy:

peace

[JohnyCanuck]

18. Prewar Findings Worried Analysts

Prewar Findings Worried Analysts

By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, May 22, 2005; Page A26

On Jan. 24, 2003, four days before President Bush delivered his State of the Union address presenting the case for war against Iraq, the National Security Council staff put out a call for new intelligence to bolster claims that Saddam Hussein possessed nuclear, chemical and biological weapons or programs.

The person receiving the request, Robert Walpole, then the national intelligence officer for strategic and nuclear programs, would later tell investigators that "the NSC believed the nuclear case was weak," according to a 500-page report released last year by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

It has been clear since the September report of the Iraq Survey Group -- a CIA-sponsored weapons search in Iraq -- that the United States would not find the weapons of mass destruction cited by Bush as the rationale for going to war against Iraq. But as the Walpole episode suggests, it appears that even before the war many senior intelligence officials in the government had doubts about the case being trumpeted in public by the president and his senior advisers.

<snip>

By late January 2003, the number of U.S. troops in the Persian Gulf area was approaching 150,000, and the invasion of Iraq was all but guaranteed. Neither Bush nor Powell reflected in their speeches the many doubts that had surfaced at that time about Iraq's weapons programs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/21/AR2005052100474.html

[bpilgrim]

21. exactly

good info, thanks for sharing :toast:

peace

[ComerPerro]

22. My personal favorite RW point is: "Saddam was a bad man"

And, yes, that is true. But why didn't Reagan and Bush I care about that when he was their ally?

[cthrumatrix]

23. he was soooooo bad.....we supported him for years

[sandnsea]

24. Road to Hell Paved With "Good Intentions"

Basis of my post today. The "good intentions" they keep peddling are a charade to excuse their Bush Doctrine war.

The Bush Administration has put us on a road to hell, a road to hell that they have led us to believe is paved with good intentions. They’ve revved up their “good intentions” propaganda machine in preparation for Senator Kerry’s expected remarks on the Downing Street Memo. The whole world thought there were WMD’s. Saddam was a bad bad man. We’re fighting the terrorists over there. Democracy is spreading like flowers in May. America is removing the “freedom deficit”.

All of these, of course, miss the point. The only way any of these excuses leads to an invasion of Iraq is through the window of the Bush Doctrine and Pre-emptive War in order “to reform the politics of the Middle East”. Without the good intentioned doctrine of American Primacy, a true imperialist America, a Pax Americana (the exact opposite of John F. Kennedy’s vision), there could be no basis for the Iraq war. The only basis to strike a country that is not preparing an imminent attack is if you believe in your power to shape that country’s economic and political landscape, you believe in your own “expansive geopolitical purposes”.

Whether you believe the “Bush Doctrine” is or isn’t sound American foreign policy, the truthfulness of the WMD intelligence is critical. The basis for preemptive invasions is potential threat. The Downing Street Memo states the Bush Administration’s war “intelligence and facts were fixed around the policy”. This is far beyond anything their own doctrine outlined. The war was not merely to prevent the threat of Saddam Hussein to the region, it was intentionally planned for the “expansion of the American perimeter”. What this means, obviously, is war anywhere, any time, a neocon administration calls for it.

MORE:
http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/?view=plink&id=1020

[Just Me]

25. I thought BushCo doesn't rely on others.

They knew and they lied ON PURPOSE!!!

[Spazito]

26. Certainly not true re Canada....

Chretien kept asking bush for the proof which, surprise, surprise, he never got. I can remember at the press scrums Chretien had to repeatedly say, "Where's the proof?".

[bpilgrim]

27. Powell and Condi Rice said he didn't have weapons or a program before 911

i'm sure google got them links still :evilgrin:

peace

[Spazito]

30. Exactly, and Chretien knew it hence the continued request to bush

for his evidence which we know he couldn't provide because it didn't exist.

[bpilgrim]

28. DSM: A Very Special Special Report With Brit Hume

KONDRACKE: Right. Bush wanted to remove Saddam though military action -- through military action justified by the conjunction of terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. And this is the key controversial sentence. "But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

Now, does that mean that we are being jimmied, we are being -- that intelligence was being cooked?

HUME: But this guy that said this based this on his conclusion on discussing this with national security aides surrounding President Bush, right?

KONDRACKE: Right, right.

HUME: Not policymakers?

KONDRACKE: Right, and the adversaries of the policy are fastening on this sentence to say, "Aha!"

HUME: The smoking gun.

Ceci, is it a smoking gun?

CONNOLLY: Hard to say that it's a smoking gun. It certainly raises legitimate questions about timing, and motives, and again, going back to the discussion of how good our and everyone else's intelligence was about Iraq.

...

BARNES: He clearly meant it was fixed, it was manipulated. But if it were manipulated, if the U.S. manipulated it, how did they also manipulate French intelligence, and German intelligence, and British intelligence, and fool the Senate and House Intelligence Committees, and that -- what was it -- Silberman-Robb Commission that looked into the whole thing. They fooled everybody, and manipulated the intelligence all over the world.

Discuss here...

that's all they got folks...

peace