YES! DIEBOLD knew:16,022 Al Gore Volusia Cty votes disappeared!

[TruthIsAll]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=125848

Yes, yes, yes....

Remember 18,181? Now this.. 16,022 votes taken from Gore and spread around to a bunch of other third party candidates: Socialists, Libertarians, et al


Diebold Knew! 16,022! Diebold Knew! 16,022! Diebold Knew! 16,022! Diebold Knew! 16,022! Diebold Knew! 16,022! Diebold Knew! 16,022! Diebold Knew! 16,022! Diebold Knew! 16,022! Diebold Knew! 16,022! Diebold Knew! 16,022! Diebold Knew! 16,022!

[protect freedom impeach bush now]

1. didnt you get the DLC/DNC memo ? "forget about it"

<heavy sarcasm>

Stolen votes ? WHY...Why WHY would you bring that
up now ?

Are you un-American ? <dripping with sarcasm>


Because of the total US press whores...NOTHING will happen
to the PNAC puppet - Fraud W Bush, EVER !

10,000 uncounted ballots ?
or 100,000 uncounted Gore ballots.....The US news media
whores dont care....Bush & his cabal dont care either...


the whole attitude of Bush White House is -

"so what",

"what are you going to do to stop us?",
"try to stop us and you'll end up....."

[Cocoa]

9. they didn't say forget about it

they sued and got one of the few Florida recounts in this county.

http://www.cnn.com/2000/LAW/11/13/presidential.recount.update.02/

Gore joins lawsuit to extend Florida recount deadline
After joining a lawsuit Monday to extend Florida's vote certification deadline, Vice President Al Gore said the "integrity of our democracy" is at stake

November 13, 2000
Web posted at: 7:19 p.m. EST (0019 GMT)

TALLAHASSEE, Florida (CNN) -- Vice President Al Gore directly entered the post-election legal fray Monday in Florida, joining a county lawsuit to extend Tuesday's deadline to certify election results, a campaign aide said.

Gore joined the lawsuit filed by Volusia County. The Bush campaign had already intervened in that suit, seeking to block any extension of the deadline.

[hippiechick]

2. kick !

this is muy importante ... unless of course its a set up trying to get us to 'trust diebold to do it right in 2004' ...


but it DOES warrant massive media coverage,

thanks !



:hippie:

[whirlygigspin]

3. here are the modified results from the cbs site

http://www.cbsnews.com/campaign2000results/election/

[DWright]

4. Mark Crispin Miller is on this!

http://markcrispinmiller.blogspot.com/

ELECTION THEFT 2000! A NEW BOMBSHELL!

[Q]

5. So what's going on here?

- Are you trying to make it difficult for the current crop of cloned candidates? Of course, I'm just kidding.

- I've always considered Gore to be the president in exile. But many Dems have 'moved on'...just as instructed by Mr. Rove.

[TruthIsAll]

34. The good news is...some Diebold employees are honest...

the bad news is...honesty is not the best policy if you value your job (and well-being) more than the truth...

[fizzana]

6. Before we get too excited.

Third party candidates in Volusia county actually received about 4,000 votes which is very much in line with the spread in all other counties

I do recall that there were a couple of instances where computers did spit out wrong numbers but these were corrected within a short period of time (1-2 hours).

The original premise of this thread is that 16,022 votes were received by 3rd party candidates which is absolutely wrong. Nader got 2,900 votes, Buchanan close to 500, Brown 442 and the rest a combined total of about 100 votes.

[BevHarris]

7. 16,026 = minor party votes Gore got minus 16,022; it's about memos

The figures relate to this post, pulled over from the big guy today. The issue is that the Diebold memos clearly are struggling to explain why Gore got minus 16,022 votes and yes, obviously they corrected it, but the internal memos can't explain it and make reference to the possibility of an unauthorized vote total being uploaded.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3A0AE5D6.9B210A64%40excite.com



------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Beetwasher
Subject: VOLUSIA CTY, FL, WHAT'S THE DEAL?
View: Complete Thread (11 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic, alt.politics, alt.politics.elections, alt.politics.gossip, alt.politics.democrats.d, alt.politics.media, alt.politics.usa.constitution
Date: 2000-11-09 09:43:11 PST


What is going on with the vote count in Volusia County, Florida?

There seem to be several "anomalies" in the vote totals that, perhaps, have innocent explanations. But it would be interesting to learn what those might be.

Look at this:

There are 10 candidates on the Florida presidential ballot: Bush, Gore,Nader, Browne, Buchanan, Harris, Phillips, Hagelin, Moorehead, and McReynolds.

According to the CBSNews.com county-by-county vote totals, there were
198,230 total votes cast for all candidates for president in Volusia
County.

However, there were only a total of 178,973 votes cast for all seven
senate candidates (the only other statewide contest on the ballot).

The 19,257 total vote difference appears to be unusually high and seems to be the largest difference among all counties in the state.

Here's more:

In the presidential balloting in Volusia County, Candidate James E. Harris garnered 9,888 votes out of his statewide total of 10,469. Candidate Howard Phillips got 2,927 votes in Volusia of his statewide total of 4,280. And Candidate Harry Browne received 3,211 Volusia votes, by far his best county showing in the state where he totaled 18,856.

Add up these three minor party candidates' votes in Volusia County and they total 16,026.

Now, remember the unusually high presidential-to-senate total vote difference of 19,257 in Volusia. The difference between that number and the 16,026 votes the three minor party candidates got is 3,231, or just about what the difference appears to be (on a percentage basis) in the other Florida counties between president and senate votes cast.

What's so unusual about Volusia County? Is it the home county of Harris, Browne and Phillips? Are these numbers just quirks? Is something else going on?

Just asking.
------------------------------------------------------



Is this the DU Beetwasher?


-----------------------------------------------------
edited for structure

[Junkdrawer]

16. Bev: I did further research and Volusia did do a hand recount...

See: http://quest.cjonline.com/stories/111000/gen_count.shtml

Google Volusia hand recount. Baker fought it tooth and nail, but he lost and the hand recount was done.

[gristy]

8. Where do you get your numbers?

Link, please. Or explanation. Thanks.

[arcane1]

10. BAM!

the hammer strikes again!

:toast:

[cmd]

11. kick

[Cheswick2.0]

15. kick

and for all the "conspiracies never happen" nuts. It is not about whether the votes were fixed. The issue is that diebold knows their voting machines can deliver a campaign and they have been lying about it ever since.
Put that along with all the other shit that happened in florida it is clear that the vote was stolen and it should be AKNOWLEDGED in the media and by the parties.

[catzies]

24. And shouted from the rooftops relentlessly until we make them stop.

Or calling ourselves a democracy means nothing forevermore.

[gully]

12. So what's next? What are WE going to do about this...

????

[KAZ]

13. Can this be confirmed?

I'm sorry, I don't follow this as much as I should. If this is true, the unelected fraud needs to be removed NOW!

[soup]

14. Old wounds

searching Google:

Tight Race Reveals Cracks in System
DELAND, Fla. - Something very strange happened on election night to Deborah Tannenbaum, a Democratic Party official in Volusia County. At 10 p.m., she called the county elections department and learned that Al Gore was leading George W. Bush 83,000 votes to 62,000.

But when she checked the county's Web site for an update half an hour later, she found Gore's count had dropped by 16,000 votes, while an obscure Socialist candidate had picked up 10,000 - all because of a single precinct with only 600 voters.

The aberration was relayed to County Judge Michael McDermott, the election overseer. ''We have a problem here,'' he said.



Volusia County results may be attributable to computer error



and would there be anything here of value?
http://www.volusia.org/elections/results2000.htm

[gully]

17. Somebody break this down for me?

How could they 'correct' anything without a paper trail?

It doesn't sound possible.... I balanced several ATM machines (diebold) in my day, and a paper trail was essential. Why can't they use the same sort of ATM type system?

I'm flabbergasted!

[Cocoa]

18. they had a paper trail

this was not touchscreen, it was optical scan machines.

The recount, as I understand it, was a hand recount of the paper ballots, and it only yielded an adjustment of approx 100 votes.

If in fact the 16,000 votes were stolen, then the paper trail wasn't sufficient to prevent it. I think they would have had to mess with the paper ballots to steal this one.

[gully]

19. They found 'hidden' ballots, ?

I remember hearing something about that. That they were hidden in the same counties that Black voters were intimidated in?

Anyone else recall that?

This is suspicious, and there was more of this going on...

http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/08/ballotbox.found/

[Cocoa]

20. I remember something like that

Your link is about Miami, but I remember something like that up north in one of the other disputed counties, Volusia or maybe Duval. I also remember a bag, not a box. All very fuzzy now, almost 3 yrs later.

edit: I also remember something from just this month, in elections in Ohio. The poll workers "forgot" to collect the memory cards from the machines, and there was a delay of a few hours while they went around and collected them. I thought that stunk.

[soup]

21. 1st link in post 14 above

further down in the article.

[grasswire]

27. another snip

"Douglas Daniels, a Gore lawyer, predicts there will be ''television movies about how the election was stolen in Volusia County.''

Well, apparently not!

[Eloriel]

22. big ole

:kick:

Eloriel

[ramblin_dave]

23. Volusia County results

Here are the official results for Volusia County 2000 election:

http://www.volusia.org/elections/results2000.htm

I don't think it can be said that 16000 votes were stolen from Gore since the official results are from a full manual recount. There would need to be evidence that the actual ballots used in the recount were tampered with.

The real story is that the electronic tabulators can indeed screw up big time and that if there had been no paper trail then there would have been no way to recover from this situation.

But if anyone still thinks there is reason to believe Gore was cheated in Volusia please tell us how you think this happened.

[BevHarris]

25. A careful reading of the memos shows they corrected the count

after all, minus 16,022 votes is kind of an obvious screwup, even if there hadn't been a paper trail.

The memos indicate, if I am reading them correctly, that a set of votes on card #0 was uploaded, and then for some unknown reason the same set of votes was re-uploaded, but this time the card was logged as #3. The second upload had all the races correct EXCEPT for Gore, which to me pretty much blows away any suggestion that it was a "bad memory card" -- that would give you bad results on all races, don't you think? Or no results at all.

Now, apparently, no one can find memory card #3, which Tab Iredale, head of the programmers, says might have been "an unauthorised upload."

So going by this, I assume they corrected the error, but we've got to stop this business of saying "oh, a glitch, it's corrected, it's okay."

I, for one, am glad the auditor came around asking uncomfortable questions. The real question is: Since my understanding is that Diebold counted 40% of Florida in 2000, how many other "unauthorised uploads" took place that no one caught?

[quilp]

26. How can a program intended to add up votes possibly subtract them?

Under what circumstances would a program need the ability to subtract more than one vote at a time? Assuming the voter had screwed up and wanted a revote.

[Kelvin Mace]

28. If you were to do it correctly...

you would adjust a "wrong vote" at the end of the count, not during the count.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org

[Kelvin Mace]

29. Yes, but it still leaves questions unanswered.

They say they they cleared the result, uploaded the card and everything was "fine". But how do they know? Until somebody answers the bushel of questions about this mysterious second card, it is still a murky occurence.

And, as you point, how many other rogues cards were in circulation and were they all caught?

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org

[whirlygigspin]

30. Analysis of election 2000 "glitches" for CBS

www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/c2k/pdf/REPFINAL.pdf

[ramblin_dave]

32. Was Volusia the only screw up or

was it just the only one so bad that it couldn't be ignored? That's a good point and I wonder the same thing. My main point though was that this thread had an initial post that implied Gore was screwed out of 16000 votes and that has not been substantiated by the memos.

Thing is, even the eventual manual recount wasn't all that pretty since there were issues about the chain of custody of the ballots.

Tight race reveals cracks in system

[TruthIsAll]

31. Volusia County missing Gore votes - Google links

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=volusia+gore+votes&btnG=Google+Search

Here's some more information on the situation in Volusia County - this includes an analysis of the 'official' recount there.


There are over 15000 missing votes in Volusia county, many of which are probably Gore votes. This is far more significant that Palm Beach county and none of the major news networks have picked up on the significance of this discrepancy.


There have been some reports that indicate that there are questions about the results in Volusia, but none that really give much of an explanation, or draw the connection to the missing Gore votes... here is what is going on.


Volusia County - 11/7 indicates results reported to CBS news on election day, 11/9 results on the recount


7%V= percentage won in Volusia county (as reported 11/7).
7%S= percentage won in the rest of the state (all counties excluding
Volusia). (as reported 11/7).


Highlighted percentages in bold are glaring voting discrepancies that
suggest fraud or tabulation error.


11/7: Total Votes= 198,320

http://elect.cbsig.net/campaign2000results/county/county_flop-0.html

11/8: Total Votes= 183,256

http://volusia.org/11-8c-00.htm

MISSING VOTES(!)=15064
GORE BUSH BUCHANAN NADER BROWNE


11/7: 97,063 82,214 396 2,436 3,211


7%V: 48.94 41.45 .20 1.23 1.62


7%S: .4708 .4735 .284 1.581 .0262


11/8: 97,063 82,214 496 2,903 442


8%V 52.96 44.863 .2707 1.584 .2412




HAEGLIN HARRIS MCREYNOLDS MOOREHEAD PHILLIPS


33 9,888 3 59 2,927

7%V: .0166 4.99 .0015 .0297 1.48


7%S: .0375 .00973 .02124 .0295 .0227


11/8: 36 8 5 69 20


8%V: .0196 .0044 .00273 .03765 .0109


These seem like really significant numbers. Note that there is no change for Gore or Bush but that the number of reported votes for all of the third party candidates gyrates wildly. It also now looks like there are questionable figures for both Phillips and Harry Browne in this county, as their initial vote totals look inflated as well.


Most importantly, 15,000 votes have somehow gone missing from this
county. That is huge news and none of the networks are reporting it.


Oh, and by the way, the official word from the Volusia County canvassing board is that:
The Canvassing Board for Volusia County's general election completed the state mandated recount of the Presidential vote
at 8 p.m., Wednesday, November 8. There were no changes in
the unofficial returns in the Presidential race.


I think that it is clear to any observer that there are major changes in the unofficial returns from this county. An explanation needs to be given.


Andy Martin
University of Chicago
773-834-6540

[whirlygigspin]

33. are we going to need election monitors

for the next round?

-Sounds like we need a citizen based VNS.