World is better with Saddam out of power - what does this mean?

[Justice]

It is the republican attempt to justify the war - when you say no WMDs, when you say people lied, when you say our armed forces are dying and being wounded, when you say things are mess in Iraq -- they say (to each of these statements) yeh, but bottom line, or no matter what we are better off with saddam out of power.


what does that mean? Your thoughts please, cuz I just don't get it.

[Triana]

1. Saddam was simply replaced...

...with george bu$h. No. we're not better off. We just have a different dictator.

[havocmom]

2. Means the junta is grasping at straws to keep from admitting they are

fucking liars and war profiteers.

[kentuck]

3. The world would be better off with George Bush out of power....

He is more of a threat to world peace than Saddam could ever be...in my opinion.

[Protagoras]

32. The logic certainly seems like it would apply to both cases

if it was good for one...why not the other?

[tuvor]

4. It's a smokescreen. Unless they believe the end always justifies the means

[tk2kewl]

5. He would've died of old age

before he could've done the damage bush has done

[evlbstrd]

6. It's the only argument they have left.

Doesn't matter now how it was done.

[BlueEyedSon]

7. I think it behooves us as Democrats, as progressives, as patriotic

Americans who uphold the constitution..... to have a serious response to that statement which makes it clear that the world is much worse off now. Our answer should be unequivocal and weighty, and CHANGE PEOPLES MINDS (granted, people throwing that around are just parroting empty BS rhetoric....).

[HuskiesHowls]

8. "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance,

Baffle them with Bullshit!!"

[noiretextatique]

12. exactly...it's total bullshit

i wonder how iraqis feel about that statement.

[LoZoccolo]

9. It's a false choice.

If all other things were equal, yes, the world would be better with Saddam out of power.

But all other things are not equal. There were other consequences to waging war as we did, and there were other ways to remove Saddam from power than the route we pursued with fewer and less severe side-effects.

This is just one of those quick right-wing quips designed to forget all that.

[LoZoccolo]

13. Also, it falsely ascribes a human-rights agenda to Bush*...

...who also re-established ties with Equatorial Guinea, which were cut due to human rights violations.

[firefox]

10. It is a thought-stopping question

It means forget your line of thinking and answer us, because we sure do not want to start answering you. You might ask why the CIA put Saddam in power in the first place or why we told him we would not get involved in a territorial dispute if he reclaimed Kuwait.

[Justice]

20. All responses are great, yours is very intriguing.

I think republicans are taught to give thought stopping answers. (like hannity today said on the view (1) bush had the moral courage to act and rosie stopped for a moment and he said (2) where is the proof of torture, abuse of koran - and puts rosie on the defensive to come up with examples.

what is the response that we should give to this statement? It is used over and over again, and often shuts off discussion b/c.

[oblivious]

34. My response would be: "No it's not."

And I could go on to recite a list of reasons so long that they wouldn't be able to get another word in till the end of the interview.

[johnaries]

11. How are we better off? The DSM admits that Saddam was

contained and wasn't even a threat to his neighbors, much less us. And how is the world better off when the most powerful country in the world is led by a man who will lie to justify pre-emptive war?

We will not be better off until we have a President that tells the truth about foreign and domestic issues.

[Old and In the Way]

14. It difficult to disprove a hypothetical.

And who wants to argue that the world would be better with Saddam in power? Who knows? Actually, the world would be no different....but a lot of dead Iraqi and American soldiers might beg to differ with that straw man argument. And we'd be better off if we hadn't gotten dragged into that fiasco.

But we knew that in 2002....

[me b zola]

15. If I know my * speak,

..it means that there are no unknows that are unknowable except when they become known :puke: blah blah :puke: blah :puke:

or something like that

on edit: I made an unknowable error

[whistle]

16. The World is better with Saddam out of power means......

....U.S. neo-conservative plan for the new American Century is better with Saddam out of power!

[knowbody0]

19. and now they have that lovely embassy right in bagdhad

[Spazito]

17. It's an admission that regime change was the reason for

the invasion and occupation of Iraq and, therefore, illegal in International Law, imo, and they think saying it often enough will somehow make something illegal into something legal.

[Justice]

21. You may well be right

Today on the View, Rosie effectively stated more than once - George Bush invaded a sovereign nation against the UN (wishes or directive or something like that). You stop and say, she is right, a sovereign nation - we skip right over that one by calling it Iraq.

[Solly Mack]

18. It doesn't mean anything. It's the reich wing fall back answer when

all else fails. They know Bush lied and they can't refute that he lied so they change the subject.

[ToeBot]

22. It means the republican you're arguing with gets the last word...

...unless you can come up with a concise circumvention of the question. If anyone has one I'd like to know what it is.

[gulliver]

23. That's the only tangible asset from this huge investment Bush made.

Bush sold America a salted gold mine. It was the worst security investment mistake in history. Hundreds of billions, and thousands of irreplaceable lost and ruined lives. But we get to see Saddam Hussein on trial on the tube!!!

Can anyone even hate Hussein any more? Is anyone still impressed by the guy Bush was comparing to Hitler? America got royally screwed by Bush on this one.

[EFerrari]

24. Nothing. Nothing at all. n/t

[LuPeRcALiO]

25. It means they're wrong.

Iraq under Saddam was infinitely better than Iraq under occupation, and so was the world.

[Dangerman]

26. My two cents...

Personally, the world will be better off with Fidel Castro removed from power, but nobody listens to me.

Seriously, I DO NOT think that removing Saddam from power is a good idea, I don't care what anybody think.

Saddam learned his lesson after he was driven out of Kuwait, but the US military and those SOB Republicans are not done with him yet. So they bombed Iraq for twelve years and slap the country with sanctions that killed thousands of Iraqi children.

Then those neocon bastards planned to invade and occupy Iraq. I don't think is really about "freeing the people from a brutal dictator" or "eliminating his weapons of mass destruction", it's about oil, greed and power, and nothing else.

America, you're wrong... you're DEAD WRONG! The world IS NOT better off without Saddam! That was George W. Bush's perverted thrash talk! Terrorist attacks increased a hundredfold ever since our "brave men and women in uniform" invaded a defenseless sovereign country for no reason at all. (i.e. a pack of lies)

I am sick and tired of this crap about "the world is better off without Saddam", how about: the world is better off WITHOUT GEORGE W. BUSH AND HIS NEOCON JACKASSES!!!

Take that "better off" nonsense and shove it up your ass, Ken Mehlman!

[LynnTheDem]

27. We're all less safe because of bush's war on Iraq.

”We have a stronger jihadi presence in Iraq today than in March 2003,” noted Roger Cressey, the former director for Transnational Threats in Bush's National Security Council at a briefing at the libertarian Cato Institute earlier this week.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0911-01.htm

Worldwide terrorism-related deaths on the rise
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5889435%20 /

US Losing the War on Terror in Iraq; The invasion of Iraq has increased, not decreased. the threat of terrorist attack
http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article2629.html

Occupation Made World Less Safe, Pro-War Institute Says
http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/terrorwar/analysis/2004/0526iissreport.htm

Iraq Invasion Hurt War on Terror
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0719-10.htm

Musharraf: World more dangerous because of Iraq War
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/25/03544/7945

Blix Says Iraq War May Have Worsened Terror Threat
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0319-02.htm

Poll: Aussies, Brits, Italians say Iraq war increased terrorism
http://www.startribune.com/stories/1576/5027215.html

Iraq intervention increased threat of terrorism
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/archive/scoop/stories/c7/9d/200409100845.68f9c878.html

UK Government; Iraq war 'increased terror threat'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3451239.stm

Iraq war has swollen ranks of al Qaeda
http://www.smh.com.au/news/After-Saddam/Iraq-a-terrorist-spawning-ground-CIA-admits/2005/02/17/1108609349394.html?oneclick=true

US State Department Corrects Report to Show Rise in Terrorism
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5264512 /

Iraq has become a terrorist spawning ground, CIA admits
http://www.smh.com.au/news/After-Saddam/Iraq-a-terrorist-spawning-ground-CIA-admits/2005/02/17/1108609349394.html?oneclick=true

Iraq Conflict Feeds International Terror Threat
http://www.skyhen.org/Focus/iraqcoverage/cia_iraq_conflict_feeds_international_terror_threat.php

[pinto]

28. It's a verbal smoke 'n mirrors sleight of hand.

Never listen to the scam artist, watch what he does.

[applegrove]

29. It is true. So is the world better off when the neocons loose power.

[The2ndWheel]

30. God works

in mysterious ways. Same thing.

It's the wall that stops questioning, thinking, and conversation. Once that wall is hit, the conversation either stops completely, or it just then turns into a shouting match and nothing get accomplished.

And for anyone who can see beyond Americanism, it's not supposed to make sense. You're not who they're talking to. I wouldn't worry too much if you don't get it.

[Career Prole]

31. They can say it as much as they want, but the country now disagrees.

"Perhaps most ominously, 52 percent said the war in Iraq has not contributed to the long-term security of the United States, while 47 percent said it did. It was the first time a majority of Americans disagreed with the central notion President Bush has offered to build support for war: that the fight there will make Americans safer from terrorists at home. In late 2003, 62 percent thought the Iraq war aided U.S. security, and just three months ago 52 percent thought so."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/07/AR2005060700296.html

"Central notion", my ass! :grr:

[LynnTheDem]

35. 52% of Americans are correct. We are ALL LESS SAFE now.

”We have a stronger jihadi presence in Iraq today than in March 2003,” noted Roger Cressey, the former director for Transnational Threats in Bush's National Security Council at a briefing at the libertarian Cato Institute earlier this week.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0911-01.htm

Worldwide terrorism-related deaths on the rise
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5889435%20 /

US Losing the War on Terror in Iraq; The invasion of Iraq has increased, not decreased. the threat of terrorist attack
http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article2629.html

Occupation Made World Less Safe, Pro-War Institute Says
http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/terrorwar/analysis/2004/0526iissreport.htm

Iraq Invasion Hurt War on Terror
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0719-10.htm

Musharraf: World more dangerous because of Iraq War
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/25/03544/7945

Blix Says Iraq War May Have Worsened Terror Threat
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0319-02.htm

Poll: Aussies, Brits, Italians say Iraq war increased terrorism
http://www.startribune.com/stories/1576/5027215.html

Iraq intervention increased threat of terrorism
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/archive/scoop/stories/c7/9d/200409100845.68f9c878.html

UK Government; Iraq war 'increased terror threat'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3451239.stm

Iraq war has swollen ranks of al Qaeda
http://www.smh.com.au/news/After-Saddam/Iraq-a-terrorist-spawning-ground-CIA-admits/2005/02/17/1108609349394.html?oneclick=true

US State Department Corrects Report to Show Rise in Terrorism
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5264512 /

Iraq has become a terrorist spawning ground, CIA admits
http://www.smh.com.au/news/After-Saddam/Iraq-a-terrorist-spawning-ground-CIA-admits/2005/02/17/1108609349394.html?oneclick=true

Iraq Conflict Feeds International Terror Threat
http://www.skyhen.org/Focus/iraqcoverage/cia_iraq_conflict_feeds_international_terror_threat.php

[Career Prole]

36. Hey! You keep that up and informationclearinghouse will just buy out

your contract and we'll never see you again!
Nice grouping, that! :toast:

[LynnTheDem]

37. ROTFL!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[The_Casual_Observer]

33. I think MY world would be better with a different boss. So.......

[Dirk39]

38. US corporations make more profit...

no matter, who is out of power.
They have installed the Sha in Iran, they have financed Saddam as long as he served their profits.
They have toppled every democratic regime that oppossed to sell out their country for U.S. profits.
And they never cared and never care for every fashist regime, they have financed and installed, as long as it serves their profits.
It's that easy. You don't need a high school exam to understand this.
The USA is at war with Iraq since about 15 years. The Bushes have killed about 200.000 Iraqis, Clinton and Albright have killed about 1.000.000 of them.
The world would be much better with the Clintons and Bushes out of power .
Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[Behind the Aegis]

39. Magic tricks

In stage magic, one of the tricks of trade is misdirection. As I am waving my left hand around wildly, my right hand is doing something else. That is what that statement is.

"HEY! There were no WMD's!!!"

"But the world is better off without Saddam! (look over here at all the bad things he did (or could have done)."

Meanwhile, people start to forget why they were outraged or even why we went to war....Magic Trick completed. Of course, it helps that the MSM is also part of the "slight of hand."