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Ralph Nader calls for Bush impeachment- live on WPR now.

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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:20 AM
Original message
Ralph Nader calls for Bush impeachment- live on WPR now.
Edited on Thu Jun-09-05 08:24 AM by followthemoney
Find the live feed at http://www.wpr.org/

call in 800 624-1234.

try 800 246-1234 Hope this one is right.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. Was Bush the "Tweedledee" or the "Tweedledumb" in Ralph's analysis?
Can't remember. Want to make sure we are impeaching the right one. :hide:
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KennedyGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. Gee thanks Ralph...
and this after all your ego-tripping campaign did to help him get elected.
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newscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. What is it with this calling Nader an egomaniac?
I dont' see it.

He's always been this way.

He seem devoid of ego.

He also thinks the Democrats and the Republicans are on the take to big biz.

You disagree with him if you want, but in my book, he's still a great American.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. The gutless calling Nader the enemy is like...
Edited on Thu Jun-09-05 08:38 AM by followthemoney
Bush calling Kerry a war coward.
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KennedyGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. and I suppose the fact that he was funded
Edited on Thu Jun-09-05 08:38 AM by KennedyGuy
and propped up by Republican money which he happily took doesn't bother you either eh? Gimme a break.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. And you object to Kerry taking Corporatist Party money...
with the same intensity? And Kerry's support of the Republican war?
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Itsthetruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. John Kerry Was Propped Up By Republican Money, Not Nader
And John Kerry organized a Republicans for Kerry campaign organization which raised even more money from Republicans!


Nader For President 2004
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
October 14, 2004

Kerry Receives 100 Times More in Contributions from GOP Donors than Nader

Center for Responsive Politics Finds: 50,000 Republican-Kerry Contributions vs. 700 Republican-Nader Contributions
$10.7 million for Kerry vs. $111,700 for Nader.

Who is really in bed with Republican fat cats: Ralph Nader or John Kerry? Who is the real independent candidate with the independent message?

Washington, DC: Today, the Independent presidential campaign of Ralph Nader and Peter Miguel Camejo released the preliminary findings of research conducted by the Center for Responsive Politics. The findings demonstrate that Senator John Kerry has thousands of contributors who have supported the Republican Party. Kerry has more than ten million dollars donated by Republican donors.

The anti-Nader Democrats have spread their big lie to discredit Nader and silence his anti-war and progressive message that Kerry could not rebut. The anti-Naderites hired Stanley Greenberg to conduct surveys and focus groups to determine how best to smear Nader. They found that falsely claiming Nader was funded and controlled by Republicans was the most effective line they could use—a line that can’t pass the laugh test when compared to the facts. They announced their findings at the Democratic Convention and then spread the lie through the Naderfactor.com and the United Progressives for Victory.

But the reality was only 700 Republican contributions (no individuals, but individual contributions) had given donations to the Nader campaign and most of the contributors were people Nader had worked with on justice issues in the past. Even among these 700 the Democrats received more money than Nader/Camejo—$111,700 to $146,000. But, the Democrats continue to use the Big Lie—despite the facts.

The logical question—never asked by any journalist, so the Nader campaign had to—is how many Republican Fat Cats gave how much to Kerry and the Democrats was never asked of the Center for Responsive Politics (CRP) by any journalist. So the Nader campaign asked the question the Kerry campaign never wanted asked: Is Kerry in bed with large contributors from the customary hedge their bets Republican campers- how many of them and for how much? If elected, will Kerry give them the access they want due to their donations?

Preliminary CRP results: 50,000 contributions who have given to President Bush or the Republicans have given $10,697,198 in large contributions to Kerry. This means 100 times more Republican money has been contributed to the Democrats campaign than to the Nader-Camejo campaign. That amount is five times the entire budget of the Nader Presidential campaign! These are preliminary results because there are so many that it is too expensive for the Center to review the donations for final results. Maybe an independent media outlet would like to try, rather than continue to repeat the corporate media’s reporting of the malicious Democratic fabrication that the campaign is funded by organized Republicans. We’re waiting for the full story on how the Kerry campaign is funded by the Republicans who play both sides of the two party duopoly.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. Thanks for bringing more facts about our so-called democracy
I'm a always democrat, but a Democrat only when they deserve it.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #28
43. A nice compilation of bullshit.
Kerry got money from "Republicans for Kerry". Repubs who saw that Bush and the Bush machine were destroying their party and the country. They wanted to defeat Bush to help put the Repub party back on its traditional track of small govt, low taxes, etc.

Nader got money from republicans who wanted to sabatoge Kerry's campaign. They knew, as all rational people did, that Nader was not a threat to them, that any extra votes he pulled would be from Kerry.

This self-serving anti-dem rant is BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
71. Which Republican donors?
Paleo or Neocon? Some of the PaleoCons and moderates put country over party.

And are they the kind of corps that split their donations down the middle, or at least give to both? Open Secrets would answer those questions. This is too vague.

Besides, taking Repub money is no crime. Ask Ralph.

I bet Kerry didn't get any money from the Smear vets.
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Tiggeroshii Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
56. Nader's not great cause he tried to run for President, he's great because,
without him, you probably wouldn't have very reliable seatbelts in your vehicle; see- "Unsafe at any speed" and read about his lobbying congress to enforce seatbelt laws. It was harder than you think!
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. He did a number of wonderful things.
Unfortunately he pissed them all away.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
77. And also
the republicans fought for Nader to be on the ballot this last November. Why? So they'd get votes away from Kerry. Of course Nader didn't care about that.
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AlGore-08.com Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
27. Take your pick, he's either an egomaniac or a hypocritical liar or both...
Edited on Thu Jun-09-05 09:04 AM by AlGore-08.com
http://dir.salon.com/news/col/cona/2000/10/24/nader/index.html

Several months ago, Nader indignantly denied a quote attributed to him by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the environmental advocate and Gore supporter, to the effect that the Green maverick would actually prefer a Bush victory. But the editors of Outside magazine cited a transcript of an interview with Nader showing he had said just that in an unguarded moment.

Obviously Nader can't afford to encourage the perception that he is consciously helping Bush, no matter how predictable the result of his endeavors may be. Still, in his quest for vindication (and federal funding) he seems well aware of which voting bloc he can attract, and has mounted a much fiercer rhetorical attack on Gore than on Bush. Whenever pressed about whether he risks being a "spoiler," he quickly retreats into mushy utopianism.

After an Oct. 22 rally in Northern California, for example, Nader sounded as if he had rejected reality, telling reporters for the San Francisco Chronicle: "I want to defeat (Gore). I want to defeat Bush. I want to take more votes than I can possibly dream of."

Of such mindless dreams are nightmares made.

In their more sober moments, Nader and his supporters have tried to reassure the fearful that almost everybody can have it both ways -- casting a vote of "conscience" for him but getting a Gore victory anyway. If that sounds illogical coming from a candidate who simultaneously proclaims that there is "no difference" between Democrats and Republicans, it is only a sad signal that Nader is becoming the kind of public figure he affects to despise; that is, a politician who will say anything to win votes.


(More... )

Then there's the fact that Nader spent years demonizing Gore for owning stock in Occidental petroleum. The only problems being: when Gore was in office (24 years) he did not own any stocks at all. Gore's Dad had some Occidental stock, and when he passed away, Gore's Mom inherited it. (Gore's Mom was a lawyer, and was of sound mind during the 2000 campaign; there's no reason to believe that she was not making her own financial decisions.) But the real hypocracy involved the fact that Nader himself owned stock in Occidental (and a bunch of other companies Nader had protested against anyone investing in). And he never appologized for it.

http://dir.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/10/28/stocks/index.html

Inside Nader's stock portfolio

A recent financial statement shows the Green Party candidate invests in companies he rails against -- including Dick Cheney's former employers.

By Jake Tapper
- - - - - - - - - -

October 28, 2000 | MADISON, Wis. -- Supporters of Green Party candidate Ralph Nader are angrily lining the streets on the way to a rally for Vice President Al Gore. They hold up Nader signs, looking scornfully at the motorcade that passes by.

Lefties like to bash Gore for being a tool of corporate America. More specifically, Gore incurs their wrath because the trust of his mother, Pauline, owns stock in Occidental Petroleum which, according to Nader running mate Winona LaDuke, "is working to exploit oil reserves under U'wa land in Colombia." The U'wa are an indigenous tribe in Colombia, and became the champions of an anti-Gore rally at the Democratic National Convention.

"As I listen to the vice president espouse his views on campaign finance reform, I look at his investment portfolio and have to ask how that might influence public policy," LaDuke has said, slamming Gore erroneously for "own substantial stock in Occidental Oil Co."

If LaDuke is looking for Occidental stockholders to criticize, she might want to look a little closer to home. In the financial disclosure form Nader filed on June 14, the Green Party presidential candidate revealed that he owns between $100,000 and $250,000 worth of shares in the Fidelity Magellan Fund. The fund controls 4,321,400 shares of Occidental Petroleum stock.

(snip)

But even if Fidelity were to divest its holdings in Occidental, it holds shares in so many companies Nader has crusaded against, it's hard to escape the conclusion that Nader's participation in the fund is supremely hypocritical. The fund, for example, owns stock in the Halliburton Company, where George W. Bush's running mate, Dick Cheney, recently worked as president and COO. The fund has investments in supremely un-p.c. clothiers the Gap and the Limited, both of which have been the target of rocks by World Trade Organization protesters, as well as Wal-Mart, the slayer of mom-and-pop stores from coast to coast.

Nader spokeswoman Laura Jones says that only the candidate himself can answer questions about his personal investments. Nader could not be reached for comment.

In a June interview with the Washington Post about his millionaire earnings -- much of which he has donated to his public interest groups -- Nader said the stocks he chose were "the most neutral-type companies ... No. 1, they're not monopolists and No. 2, they don't produce land mines, napalm, weapons."

But this is not true. The Fidelity Magellan fund owns 777,080 shares of Raytheon, a major missile manufacturer. And this isn't the only example of his rhetoric not matching up with his financial investments.

(More... )


More specifics about Nader's portfolio from BushWatch:

http://www.bushwatch.net/nader2000.htm

HOW NADER PROFITS WHILE HE PREACHES
Did you know that Ralph Nader has a financial interest in Dick Cheney's success and has financial ties to Enron, one of George W. Bush's major campaign contributors? While Nader attacks corporations such as Halliburton, Raytheon, Boeing, Ford, Phillip-Morris, Pfizer, MacDonalds, and Occidental as being harmful to mankind, he makes investment profits off of all of these and more. What's the point, you ask? If corporate contributions corrupt candidates, can't corporate investments corrupt candidates? And if Mr. Nader questions Mr. Gore's populist rhetoric and his mother's oil holdings, shouldn't he also question his own?

by Jeff McMahon

As you know, Greens and other activists have been protesting Al Gore because his mother's trust owns stock in Occidental Petroleum, which has been striving to drill for oil on the sacred lands of the indigenous U'wa people in Colombia. In the US, the protests have had two main targets: Mr. Gore and Fidelity Investments, one of the largest holders of Occidental stock. Fidelity holds far more shares, by the way, than Pauline Gore's trust. Fidelity controls about $500 million worth of Occidental Stock, according to the Rainforest Action Network, which accuses Fidelity of "Investing in Genocide." Protestors have urged Fidelity investors to divest from Fidelity unless Fidelity pressures Occidental to cancel its Colombia project. Apparently, Ralph Nader didn't hear them.

In the financial disclosure form he filed on June 14, Ralph Nader reported that he owns between $100,000 and $250,000 worth of shares of the Fidelity Magellan Fund. As an owner of the fund, Nader owns a portion of the stocks that make up the fund, including its 4,321,400 shares of Occidental Petroleum.

Mr. Nader has no control over the investment choices Fidelity makes in this fund, but he receives reports of fund holdings and he has his choice of funds. Unlike Mr. Gore, Mr. Nader has a personal stake in Occidental, and he has not issued any press release annoucing his divestment or pressuring Occidental to halt its project.

But wait, there's more. Fidelity Magellan also owns stock in Dick Cheney's Halliburton Company, which has been linked in a published report to the deaths of environmental activists and indigenous people in the Niger Delta. And I'm sure you will recognize the names below, just a small sampling of the companies in which Ralph Nader has a personal stake:

Exxon Corp., Royal Dutch Petroleum, BP Amoco, Chevron (Bush advisor Condoleeza Rice is a director of Chevron), Shell, Sunoco, Texaco, The Coastal Corp. (Gulf of Mexico drilling, coal mining), Total Fina (specialist in international oil exploitation), Raytheon (missle guidance systems), General Dynamics (warships), Kimberly-Clark (destroyer of forests), Louisiana Pacific (destoyer of forests, polluter of bays), Ford Motor Co. (chastised by Nader just last week), General Motors (ditto), Biogen ("bio-pharmaceuticals"), Genentech (ditto), Monsanto (pesticides incl. Roundup and bioengineering, including corn that kills butterflies), Bristol-Myers Squibb (these are all pharmaceuticals), Merck, Pfizer, Warner-Lambert, Caterpillar (don't they make bulldozers?), McDonalds (a villain of globalization), Clorox (maker of ozone layer holes), Gillette (former torturer of bunnies), Proctor & Gamble, Phillip-Morris. And the next time there's an anti-consumerism day, be aware that Mr. Nader owns stock in:, The Gap, The Limited. And these big-box purveyors of sprawl:, Wal-Mart, Target, Home Depot, Circuit City, Bed Bath & Beyond, Staples. Also a couple of energy companies: Montana Power Co. (moving from oil, gas, coal, to fiber optics) Enron (largest natural gas company).

Fidelity Magellan controls stock in hundreds more corporations. These just popped out at me. I don't think it's a sin for a man to have investments, although there is a case for hypocrisy here, but I think those activists chaining themselves to desks at the Gore campaign might want to also visit the Nader office. In 1996, Nader refused to release a financial disclosure statement or his tax return, saying it was "full of zeros." This year he filed the financial disclosure, perhaps because his contribution level triggered a requirement. Personally, I can't believe he's not in a blind trust or one of the socially conscious funds that are available, but apparently no one scrutinizes Nader. Everyone assumes he is above reproach. He still refuses to release his personal income tax return.

Documents: Nader's disclosure form: http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/index/P20000527.htm, Fidelity Magellan annual report: http://personal300.fidelity.com/gen/ew/EW46241.PDF, Call for divestiture: (a href="http://amazonwatch.org/newsroom/newsreleases00/apr0300uwa.html" target=x> (http://amazonwatch.org/newsroom/newsreleases00/apr0300uwa.html), Report on Halliburton: http://consortiumnews.com/082000a1.html.

Relevant quotes: "As I listen to the vice president espouse his views on campaign finance reform, I look at his investment portfolio and have to ask how that might influence public policy. Gore owns substantial stock in Occidental Oil Co., which is working to exploit oil reserves under Uwa land in Colombia." --Winona LaDuke (http://votenader.org/issues/clinton-bush-gore.html)

1996 NPR Interview: SCOTT SIMON: Mr.- Mr. Nader, will you, would you, as major party presidential candidates do, release copies of your tax return and financial disclosure statement?

RALPH NADER: No, because I want to practice what I- I've preached for 30 years. I have advocated the privacy of medical records, income tax records, because I think that's an essential defense to corporate power and arbitrary government power.

SCOTT SIMON: I- I'm just wondering if- if American voters aren't entitled to know something about what your sources of financial support have been over the years in work which you're very clearly involved, even for the benefit of the American people, just so they can, you know, make a rational judgment.

RALPH NADER: Well, I- I've- I'm- I've said it to anybody who asks. It's not relevant because it's full of zeros. In other words, I don't take any funds from any of these non-profit groups. I don't take any funds from the potential can- campaign contributors, and it's hard to, you know, demonstrate a negative. (http://www.npr.org/hotnews/nadert.html)

--- "Nader said the stocks he chose were 'the most neutral-type companies.' 'Number one, they're not monopolists and number two, they don't produce land mines, napalm, weapons,' he said." (Washington Post, June 18, 2000) Nader's Fidelity Magellan fund: 777,080 shares of Raytheon, missile manufacturer (plus five other aerospace/defense corporations).

--- Nader: "I'm quite aware of how the arms race is driven by corporate demands for contracts, whether it's General Dynamics or Lockheed Martin. They drive it through Congress. They drive it by hiring Pentagon officials in the Washington military industrial complex, as Eisenhower phrased it." (The Progressive Magazine, April 2000) Nader's Fidelity Magellan fund: 2,041,800 shares of General Dynamics.

--- "The corporations are planning our futuresSThey are making sure grow up corporate. The kids are over-medicated, militarized, cosmetized, corporatized. They are raised by Kindercare, fed by McDonald¹s, educated by Channel One." (The Washington Post, Saturday, June 17, 2000) Ralph Nader's Fidelity Magellan fund: 15,694,800 shares of McDonald's.

--- "Bristol-Myers Squibb markets Taxol at a wholesale price that is nearly 20 times its manufacturing cost. A single injection of Taxol can cost patients considerably more than $2,000 and treatment requires multiple injections." -- Ralph Nader Testimony before the House Budget Committee. June 30, 1999 Ralph Nader's Fidelity Magellan fund: 15,266,900 shares of Bristol-Mayers Squibb.

--- "Both parties are terrible on antitrust. Look, we have Boeing now, one aircraft company, manufacturer after the McDonnell Douglas merger." (Ralph Nader, Burden of Proof, CNN, 8/9/00.) Ralph Nader's Fidelity Magellan fund: 2,908,600 shares of Boeing.

--- "Equally damaging, Nader said, was the Justice Department¹s failure to effectively challenge such recent mergers as British Petroleum with Amoco and Exxon with Mobil. 'The combining of these giant oil companies concentrates the oil industry¹s economic power in fewer hands and gives these merged companies greater opportunity to manipulate prices,' Nader said. 'Oil company profits are up an average of 300 percent in the first quarter of 2000 compared to the first quarter of 1999.' (Nader 2000 press release, June 28, 2000) Nader's Fidelity Magellan fund: 24,753,870 shares of BP-Amoco. 28,751,268 shares of Exxon-Mobil.

--- "The bearded Eddie Vedder, with chin-length hair framing his still-boyish face, launched into a tender version of 'Soon Forget,"' from Pearl Jam's latest album, 'Binaural.' He called out facetiously to find out whether Microsoft co-founder and area billionaire Paul Allen was in the audience, and then dedicated the song -- about the isolation and loneliness that accompany excessive wealth -- to Allen and Bill Gates.... After receiving a standing ovation, Vedder brought Nader to the stage, introducing him as 'someone who represents us and not the corporate interests.' (Salon, Sept. 26, 2000) Ralph Nader's Fidelity Magellan fund: 41,845,400 shares of Microsoft.

--- What's the point, you ask? If corporate contributions corrupt candidates, can't corporate investments corrupt candidates? And if Mr. Nader questions Mr. Gore's populist rhetoric, shouldn't he also question his own? 10/27/00
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Itsthetruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. Care To Post John Kerry's Portfolio And His Corporate Benefactors?
Edited on Thu Jun-09-05 10:23 AM by Itsthetruth
So you think that Ralph Nader and his running mate represent corporate interests and the rich while John Kerry is just a ordinary kind of guy who represents working class people!

Surfs up!


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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #34
44. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Kerry has never said he didn't take corporate money. He, like the whole world, knows that he is rich.

Nader's career has been built on attacking the corporate system.

Which, then, is the hypocrite?
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AlGore-08.com Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #34
47. Thanks for making my point by avoiding the issue
As far as I know, Nader never demonized Kerry for owning the same stock that Nader owns.

Nader demonized Gore for something Gore did not do.

That's called lying.

Nader did the very thing he claimed Gore was doing.

That's called hypocrisy.

Support Nader for his politics if you like, but don't pretend he's some kind of saint. He isn't. He's a hack, like all the other hacks in politics. A point you proved by responding to "Nader is a corporate ho" with "well... he's not the only one!"
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #27
45. Something can be said for wishing for Bush to win. I believe Nader was
Edited on Thu Jun-09-05 11:00 AM by anarchy1999
of the opinion, better it get worse fast than slowly. Only then will change happen.

Enough Republicans need to feel the pain, jobs gone, downsizing everywhere, THE WTO, NAFTA, corporate malfeasance, cronyism, health care crisis, lack of journalists and real truth telling by the corporate owned media, etc. and so on and so forth.

Just wait for the housing bubble to pop folks, all hell is going to break loose.

Just something to think about.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #45
50. The argument against that is, the repub leadership is too
fucking rich to feel any pain. They won't lose their jobs. They won't lose their healthcare. And as long as they've got ES&S and Diebold, they won't lose their offices, either.

Exacerbating the divisions between the haves and have nots instead of making rational political appeals won't lead to re-structuring, but to revolution.

I don't think we want to see our cities in flame, do we?
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
35. No room in the leadership of the Re-democart party
for someone not beholden to big biz?

Maybe Dean and Ralph hsould have a meeting, now that would be interesting.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. The Founding Fathers failure to forsee parties and ..
The law of unintended consequences. Any third candidate upsets this feeble system that couldn't make the war an issue in the last election.
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
62. agree.
Nader did the Condi. Thought more of his own glorification and that of his followers than he did the country. He knew he was unelectable. He knew his sapping votes from Kerry would help Bush. But he has to have the stage. No matter the cost to America.
Condi puts her loyalty to Bush above everything else. He's God to her. Ralph worships his own idealism. And let the country fall where it will.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. So the a**hole who made it possible for W to win now sees the light:
too little, too late a**hole, you've f***ed the country forevermore.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. We have to take our support where we can get it


I am not a Nader fan but if we want Bush impeached, let's support his support.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Ain't no three Repuke Congressmen ever gonna vote to impeach a Repuke
president under any conditions. EOS
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Even the Ditto heads are going to support impeachment ....
when the draft starts again. I will welcome their support despite their ignorance and cowardice.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
48. I agree. You see, I believe, unlike the Naderites, in working
together to defeat a common enemy.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. I do not agree. I've apologized to my Green friends lately because
I had to learn the hard way that, in essence, Ralph Nader was right that we only have One Almighty Corporate Party that's divided into two branches: 1)Lovin' Big Brother (Republicans); and 2) Serving their corporate master with a wink and a nod (DINO Democrats).
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Nadar's candidacy served only one purpose: best assure W's election
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Kerry's campaign served only one purpose....
to endorse bush's war.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. No disagreement here: once W's war was endorsed, Kerry lost any chance
of winning IMHO.
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jman0 Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. That is assuming Nader voters would have voted Democrat
Instead of just staying home.
Obviously the Democratics didn't earn those votes.
Why do you believe the dems are entitled to them?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #21
54. Maybe because by keeping Bush in power
they guarantee a further erosion of their principles? Degradation of the environment? Appointments of religious fanatics to the federal courts?

Do you really think Kerry would not have done just a few things differently than Bush?

If not, then I contend that you might suffer from a slight case of absolutism -- the kind that makes devoted communists become devoted fascists. It's not the principles that are important, but the belief.
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Itsthetruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
33. Not Nader's Fault!
It's not Naders fault that the Democratic Party ran such pathetic Republican lite candidates for President in 2000 and 2004.

Perhaps the Democratic Party could win elections if it ran candidates for President who actually opposed Bush's policies!
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
37. Sorry KERRY made it possible for gwb to "win". eom
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. I can see this decending into a hate Nader thread.
Ralph isn't to blame for Bush being in office folks. Look in the mirror.

The Democrats abandoned Gore in 2000 and Kerry abandoned us in 2004.

The establishment Dems are the problem.
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. i think we all need to stand together
let the dead bury the dead.
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. 'Scuse me all to hell for my resentment toward Ralph.
I will not, however, be told to sit quietly in the corner.

Right message - WRONG WRONG WRONG MESSENGER.
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Step away from the coffee.
Take a deep breath

:)

Relax


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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #24
49. Condescension doesn't flatter you.
nm
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Neither will Ralph sit quietly in the corner...
You have much in common with him. You might consider supporting his call for Bushes impeachment. Or start your own.
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #25
53. I, however, didn't in any way contribute to a Bush win.
nm
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America_Is_Real Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
30. Did he talk about Conyer's letter?
I missed Nader's interview, will it be archived anywhere?

I hope he encouraged listeners to sign Conyer's letter to investigate the downing street minutes, that is the first step we need if there is any hope for impeachment in 2006.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #30
52. He talked about the Downing Street Memo
Edited on Thu Jun-09-05 11:14 AM by followthemoney
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
14. The fact that Nader is in public calling for impeachment...
...should get an interest going.
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
57. Interest from who?
The majority of Democrats don't seem to care about impeachment. This despite Bush's numerous impeachable offenses.
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
15. Nader was also on C-SPAN recently
saying the same thing:

http://www.c-span.org/VideoArchives.asp?CatCodePairs=,&ArchiveDays=100&Page=3

Of course the Nader-Haters will spit and sputter, but at least he's out there talking about the failings of this administration. Whether or not a Republican congress would impeach is not the point, he's getting people to talk about it.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. Bush repeats his message over and over again....
He says he has to "catapult the propaganda".
Maybe we need to catapult the facts.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
19. GREAT!
Good Karma on Nader. I still reserve a considerable amount of hostility for the man for being the instrument that facilitated bu$hit's "win" in 2000. However, he is absolutely doing the right thing calling for bu$hit's impeachment.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
26. been listening since your heads-up
Thank you.
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DFWJock Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
29. From the man
who brought you George Bush in 2000....
"Lets impeach!"
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #29
59. Exactly.
"See this mess I helped create? Somebody really ought to clean this up."
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. Kerry was going to do it better...
Who was going to clean up after Kerry?
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
31. Can't believe his funders allowed him to. nt.
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Samurai_Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
32. Gee Ralph...
I thought all Republicans and Democrats were alike. That's been your mantra for years. Now you want to change your tune? Too late, buddy. I'll never believe another word that comes out of Mr. Me-me-me-look-at-me's mouth.
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Itsthetruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. "Republican lite" Democrats Hate Nader/Camejo More Than Bush!
eom
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Yellow Dog Dems or Reagan Dems...
Who is worse?
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Samurai_Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #38
55. Gee, that's quite an assumption...
I'm not a Democrat. I'm an independent, because I because I think the Democratic party is not liberal enough.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
40. Amazing after all that's happened people still pile on
Get a clue, folks- Ralph was right about a lot of things- just how much more evidence- how many more sell outs do you need?

They've given Bush everything that he wants- they refuse to stand up for any coherent set of principles- THATS WHY THEY LOSE.

That's why Gore lost- and why Kerry lost. (It's also why countless other candidates lose and will continue to lose).

If more Dems had Conyers or Dean's attitude (or at least had the guts to back them up, instead of cowering and snivelling on the TV talk circuit)- we wouldn't be in this position.

And Ralph has absolutely nothing to do with that-
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Dems need a backbone. The election is over....
the cowardly Dems should now free to say what they really believe. Get a backbone. Nader is the real "small d" democrat. Only a handful of office holders have any guts.
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olddad56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
42. As if Ralph Nader carried any weight. He is a has been and a joke.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. So says one of his republican supporters...
You right wingers are all alike.
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #46
60. That's borderline name-calling, friend.
Dangerously skirting the rules.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. Only if you think Republican is a foul epithet...
most Nader haters probably wear that badge proudly
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Painting with a mighty broad brush, aint'cha?
I see you're new here. Enjoy your stay. You'll learn a lot.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. You imply you are going to teach me. Might y big talk for a...
squigly line on a paper.
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DawnneOBTS Donating Member (374 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
51. Ralph Nader is his own person...
...and, in his OWN opinion, neither candidate was thought to serve the best interests of the people. Remember, this was his OWN opinion. The Green Party chose not to run him as a candidate also, remember, so nobody can blame the Greens for taking votes away from Kerry. Those who voted for Nader believed in him-a lot of people like Nader's style of taking on big corporations-something that Kerry did not do, frankly. Kerry could have run a much better offensive instead of, in my opinion, looking "wimpy." Most people would agree with this, those of us who are very pleased with Howard Dean's style. I voted for Kerry, not Nader, but I did see this throughout the entire election.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
61. That's nice Ralph dear
now go play outside.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. And don't hurt any spinless Dems.
Edited on Thu Jun-09-05 04:35 PM by followthemoney
sorry, meant spineless.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. He used to be able to do that
now he can barely gum his way through oatmeal. Sad really. Shoulda never taken that Smear Vet money. Shrivelled him right up.

Is it time for his nap yet?
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. And don't forget his union busting.
Yup, quite a piece of work.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Tell Me more.
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Take a look.
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. this one too
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Thanks for the links...
Chomsky suggests "wealth and power tend to accrue to those who are ruthless, cunning, avaricious, self-seeking, lacking in sympathy and compassion, subservient to authority and willing to abandon principle for material gain, and so on."

I tend to agree with Chomsky. Thats why I prefer having more candidates than those the two parties allow. Kerry was only a marginally better choice than Bush. The use of election laws to prevent any meaningful choice by the electorate is a far worse issue than any of those listed by these mostly right wing publishers: Chicago: Regnery Gateway, New, Republic Book Company, Dave Barry, a Bush supporter.

Michael Moore complained about his treatment by Ralph also.

Fair elections are too risky. The people's choice might win. Better to maintain this pretense at democracy. Better, at least for those with a lock on power.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
72. He's just doing what the spineless Dems should be doing.
I see the NaderHaters and "moderates" are out in force to attack him.

BTW. Save your breath. I held my nose and voted for Kerry.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
74. Good!
The best way Nader can make up for bad mouthing the Democrats back in 2000 and 2004 is mentioning Bush and Impeachment for the next three years.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
78. Thanks Ralph
nt
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