Does Dean's blunt talk about GOP help or hurt Democrats?

[yurbud]

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[LaurenG]

1. He says what we have been trying to verbalize forever it seems

[JAbuchan08]

2. Saying that the Republican party is the party of white-christians

may be stereotypical, but its a stereotype that has more than a splinter of truth - more like a log.

[yurbud]

13. Any white person who would be offended would NEVER vote Dem anyway

they are the closeted (or out of the closet) racists who like the confederate flag and hate people that don't look like then or god-forbid, speak another language.


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[jpgray]

3. As long as we don't have our act together, it hurts

Your poll options are far too exclusive for my opinion, though. Republicans love to feel persecuted, and as long as his generalizations are spun that way rubes will identify with those "persecuted," majority race-religion-party, dominating all three branches of government Republicans. We have to better protect provocative statements, and we have to be smarter about which provocative statements we make. If Dean harnesses his ability to get a "controversial" statement blasted all over the media, we'll have a powerful tool. But we're not there yet, and people publicly ripping on him are really doing the GOP's work.

[Guaranteed]

6. Yup. nt

[Caution]

14. Oh my is that the voice of reason I hear?

Good post. Personally I think having someone who apparently doesn't who apparently doesn't understand how to control what he says and speak appropriately is going to cause a lot more harm than good. Why people aren't alarmed about the fund-raising problems Dean is having is beyond me. The fact is that the American political process requires donations from the wealthy. The republicans vastly outnumber us in this area which is unsurpising considering how much they pander to the wealthy. But there are many with money out there who believe in the ideals of liberalism/progressivism/whatever you want to call it this week who have money who see Dean as a hothead who can't control himself. This is not good for the party as a whole regardles sof how much some of us may agree with the sentiments expressed. If Dean can't control himself than he shouldn't be heading up the party, it's that simple.

I like Dean and I donated to him, but his behavior is not helping.

[yurbud]

15. maybe he should get some tips from Bill Moyers

He had some good similar lines like the GOP making the faithful look heavenward so corporate America could pick their pocket unnoticed.


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[truth_is_extreme]

4. Mike Malloy would do an ever better job though

GO DEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guaranteed]

5. It only hurts when DLC whores jump on him about it. nt

[wallwriter]

7. Insufficient answers

The GOP is corrupt and wrong in so many ways. We should criticize them and undermine them in ways that will either definitively show how evil they are or bring a large and powerful group into the Democratic tent.

So far, a majority of people in this country are still Christian and white (I am not one of them). Attacking that demographic will do the Democrats no good.

Dean needs to be smarter than that. He should attack evil individuals and actions. There are so many of them. But going after such a large demographic is just foolish and destructive.

[yurbud]

16. a lot of white people don't want to associate with racist whites

and Dean's comment indirectly underlined that. Rather than being insulted, people might think, is this the kind of example I want to set for my kids, belonging to the white folks club?

This wouldn't have any effect on the religious right one way or the neocon, corporate sociopath branch of the party, but those who might be in just because Rush told them to might be swayed.

[wallwriter]

33. Maybe true, but not too shrewd politically.

Do you want to be correct or win elections? I'd rather do both. Dean is not setting himself up that way.

[yurbud]

37. do you honestly think racist whites will vote democratics?

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[GoneOffShore]

8. It helps - of course it does

What we need are more Democrats to come out swinging at the Repugs. Thank Dog for Howard Dean!
Despite the fact that there are some deluded working class Rethugs, more than a few have made their living off the backs of others. (added on edit) And the 'white, Christian label'? Well, yes - They've taken over the mantle of the old line Dixiecrats who were against social justice in all its forms.
Go Howard!
Go Howard!
Go Howard!!

[Just Me]

12. We have incredibly brilliant, assertive Dems who've put up their dukes.

They deserve a flurry of support.

[Just Me]

9. Truth only hurts the frauds.

The bigger the fraud, the more freaked out they get!!!

[KittyWampus]

10. It's One Thing To Be "Blunt". It's Another To Be Blunt And Ill Spoken

which Dean is.

[GoneOffShore]

19. My dad had a saying

"He calls a spade a spade." Followed by, "Let the chips fall where they may."
And that's exactly what Dean is doing. For far too long Democrats, liberals, progressives have let the right-wing whackos define the playing field. He's now out there flinging their terms back at them - as we all should have been doing over the years.
Dean has been speaking truth to power and if it makes you uncomfortable, well, sorry. For the rest of us who have watched the right (reich?) call the shots, this is good thing.
And sorry, but I would humbly beg to differ that Dr. Dean is "ill spoken" as you so unjustly characterize him.

[Jon_da_brockman]

21. And therein lies the problem.

The right wing Wackos have defined the playing field, and now we are playing in it. We need to change the field, not accept it.

[KittyWampus]

41. No, Dean Doesn't Have The Talent To Call A Spade A Spade

he'd manage to fuck that saying up somehow.

The sayings you reference imply making oneself understood clearly BY ANYONE.

Dean's comments only resonate with the few Democrats who post on DU.

He does NOT express himself well and it's pretty sad how desperately so many DU'ers want to pretend he does.

[K-W]

25. It is better to be blunt and ill spoken than meek and well spoken.

I think any reading of political history will prove that ten times over.

[KittyWampus]

42. You Can Be Forth Right & Express Yourself Well. What Part Of That Can't

you grasp?

[Warpy]

36. he's blunt and WELL spoken

sorry if the bald truth offends so many people, but it is the truth. Delay and Frist are both on record as wanting to rewrite the constitution according to their interpretation of what Christian principles are, and a look at their convention should have shown you just how lily white that party is.

Plus, Dean is getting us on the air after a very long time of having anyone but milquetoasts like Colmes whose only function is to agree with the right wing spewbots on the air.

So go ahead and purse your lips and wrinkle your noses, all you timid souls. Dean is doing us proud. Your way just plain didn't work.

[KittyWampus]

43. "Bald Truth" LOL. Dean Resonates With A Small Fraction Of Americans

who post on DU.

And this bullshit notion Dean has some secret strategy is laughable.

He was a crappy speaker during the primaries but the Media didn't let him slide time and again on his gaffes. In fact, DU'ers even said he had "teflon" :D

If this is some grand strategy apparently Dean wasn't smart enough to let the rest of the Democratic Party in on it.

[alfredo]

11. Dean is defining the Theocratic Party, or is it the Autocratic Party?

No, it could be the party of White Christian Men. Anyway, he is throwing crap against the wall seeing if anything will stick.

It is OK if the politician distances themselves from Dean. Really it is.

"He may not talk for me, but he does bring up some valid issues"

There is a method to his madness.

[andino]

17. OTHER!!

It makes GOPers that are unhappy with their party look past us. There are many many gopers out there that are unhappy with the direction that their party is headed in. I think that we hurt ourselves when we lay broad insults on the other side. It makes it harder for staunch GOPers to change over to our side.

Personally, I believe that we should embrace the other side and at the same time play against them. Say things like "Well, gotta love the way the conservative party is being so conservative" and "Why in the world would any rational person support a war with no just cause". The popularity of the war is on the way down. We remind people that Bush 'fixed' the intel and lead us into this saying it would cost us nothing. Make HIM deny it!!! We should start building a case for reforming immigration laws. We should focus on the middle class and tell them that we have always and will always fight for them. They are the ones that are the largest voters. They should be who we focus on. 2006 is just around the corner. If we were to gain a few seats in the senate then we could launch a few investigations and make the GOP look like shit for a change.

Also, fire every single person that works in the DNCs advertising department. They suck. They haven't gotten one point across in 8 years. And while we are at it, Differentiation is the name of the game. Send people up who stand out. Let the cream rise to the top and stop it with the good old boy crap. I really don't care how many elections so and so worked on. I care how many he has won. Why in the hell do we hire losers just because they ran 3 failed presidential campaigns? Hire the winners!

Sorry for the rant... I had to vent...

[yurbud]

27. if Dean's criticisms are true, they will resonate with disaffected GOPers

As I've said on this topic in a couple of places, a lot of white people would be very uncomfortable if they found themselves in a racist club, and not everyone is in the GOP because they are a hardcore or even latent racist.

[Jon_da_brockman]

18. HELPS!!!

Shows the American public that the Democratic Party can be JUST LIKE THE REPUBLICANS!!!! Just like we always wanted!!! SWEET!

[LittleClarkie]

20. Could he make headlines talking about health care

do you think?

[BigBearJohn]

22. I guess that settles THAT!!! (grin)

[yurbud]

30. for those that say hurts, does patronizing people win them over?

or ignoring glaring flaws?

you can't "coax" people out. You have to say your message plainly, unapologetically, and repeat it over and over and over until it sinks in.

The GOP knows this. They did it with tax cuts and supposed coming failure of Social Security until both became the conventional wisdom.

Haven't you ever done something stupid, like walk out of the bathroom with your pants unzipped, and nobody tells you because they don't want to embarrass you? Well, what is going to be more painful to white Christian republicans, having Howard tell it like it is, or unknowingly getting economically screwed up the ass for that much longer?


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[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

23. It's time for us to define the Republican Party

They've turned "liberal" into a pejorative, the estate tax into the "death tax", and the Constitutional right to dissent into being "anti-American."

Now it's our turn, and Dean is setting the terms. Are all Republicans white? No. Are they all Christians? No. But saying that they are is so close to the truth (maybe 98%) that it's an image that sticks.

The DLC is wringing their hands about "alienating the undecided voters." Screw 'em. We don't need to convince the people who have a hard time choosing between a vanilla and chocolate shake at McDonald's -- we need to motivate the people who know what they want, and just don't think they can get it.

Dean reminds us what we stand for, and tells us in no uncertain terms that we can have it if we work for it.

And it scares the hell out of those whose income/power/social standing depends on the status quo, whether they're Repugs or DINOs or MSM.

[K-W]

24. How did talking trash about dems help the Republicans?

The answer of course is that it helped them immensly while the constantly faux-respectful democrats played into the republicans plan perfectly by trying to look bipartisan and handing the republicans the right to set every agenda as a matter of principle.

[Andromeda]

26. Dean is throwing red meat to his supporters

and provoking reaction from his detractors. Media's attempt to discredit him is keeping him in the public eye.

His rhetoric is making people think and that can't be a bad thing.

[Prodemsouth]

28. I didn't answer because your polling questions are biased.

Dean's "white Christian" remark did hurt. Why didn't he use the "never worked a day in his life" to jump on the media's selective coverage? He could have said "Was what I said so bad as The Texas Senator's remark about understanding people wanting to harm judges. And mentioned even more controversial remarks by Republicans. I had no problem with the first (never worked a honest etc) comment, the second comment, well...I don't understand what he is trying to accomplish with that remark.
Maybe he realizes he dosen't want the job and wants to be forced to leave.
Maybe he thinks the Democrats are a hopelss cause.

[yurbud]

32. I like your idea to spin it around to GOP violent rhetoric

you ought to send that to him.


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[cynatnite]

29. I take back what I first said about Dean's comments

While I agreed it was the truth, at first I thought it didn't mean a whole hell of a lot.

After watching and reading the reactions from both sides it now seems to me that it's a brilliant thing to say.

Everyone now realizes the repubs is 82% white christian. I've heard that stat on both CNN and MSNBC. And I haven't heard one rw nutjob dispute it. It forces a lot of repubs to take a hard look at their party.

I mean, really, who wants to be part of a political party with exclusivity as it's theme?

[killbotfactory]

I want to see how much they raised this week, compared to before

My guess is that it has gone up.

[housewolf]

31. Other/both.....

Depending on what sort of outcome is wanted:

It riles Dean's base up and thrills _some_ Dems (but not all).

Outside of Dean's base, it reinforces a negative stereotype about Dean and about Dems to Repubs and independents, creates a LOT of negative publicity with pundits giving EVERYONE multiple opportunities to criticize Dean and the Dems.

It creates divicsiveness within the Dems, distratcts them, causes internal division and fighting

[donheld]

34. When Repuglicans talk this way

It never seems to hurt them.

[yurbud]

38. exactly--and they don't talk this way. They say harsh LIES not truths

[WillowTree]

35. Hurts, but not for the silly reasons you listed.

Dean's rhetoric hurts because it leaves an impression of the Democratic Party as being petty, mean-spirited and not in control. Rightly or otherwise, that scream will haunt Dean for the rest of his days. Having him running off at the mouth all the time only reinforces his 'loose canon' image, and that reflects badly on the Party. Like it or not, that's just the way it is and, like it or not, it's turning off a lot of people whose votes Democratic candidates are going to need and want.

Defend him all you want, but answer these, not to me, but to yourself:

Question

How much money has he raised?

Question

How much has he raised as compared to Terry McAuliffe?

Question

How much has he raised as compared to the Republicans?

[yurbud]

39. QUESTION: Does amount of money raised matter if you stand for nothing?

What's all that money going to buy you if you are so bland and milquetoast you say nothing and do less, except for those big corporate donors like feckless whores like Joe Biden does?


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[yurbud]

40. He is still more reasonable than most in GOP and what does scream prove?

That he's not a good cheerleader?

Both Bush and Trent Lott were cheerleaders in college and that doesn't make them good representatives of working people's interests, or in Bush's case, even a coherent public speaker.

That scream bit was the lamest political assassination yet, and even Roger Ailes admitted it the continuous loop replay was over the top.

Why don't you try doing a battle cry and see how it sounds?


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[yurbud]

44. We ought to send this to Dean and the ho's insulting him

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[kentuck]

45. Somebody has to say it, otherwise...

the voters will have nothing but propaganda upon which to base their opinions..