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Edited on Fri Jun-10-05 04:17 PM by tmorelli415
as if any one of these people can speak with any authority on the subject of whether or not a person is gay by choice or orientation. They will listen to nobody who disputes their determined position, and accept no discussion of the topic - they've decided they have the answer before the question is even raised.
But that would all be fine on its own as they absolutely have the right to hold any opinion they wish. However, this kind of jaw dropping grocery list of twisted, manipulated figures that are out-and-out lies parading as some 'caring' health warning is nothing more than deliberately demeaning other human beings to support their religious views.
They've painted gays and lesbians as sick, degenerate individuals who are both diseased mentally and physically - one could certainly say there are some points that are sadly true, but easily I could select any group of people and collect damning figures not unlike these to explain how they are reaping the fruits of their morally depraved lives.
There are real living human beings behind their snide remarks and depraved proto-scientific numerical manipulations. And then they top it all off by suggesting that gays are people who deliberately turn away from God and their faith so that they can selfishly indulge in some sexual rampage. Nothing could be further from the truth!
Where are the figures showing how many gay and lesbian individuals are people of deep faith? I wouldn't be surprised if that number is even higher inthe gay/lesbian population than in the general population. Why? Because fiding the courage to live openly as the person you know yourself to be is a great leap of faith and it requires a personal relationship with God to gain that courage and strength every day.
It may actually surprise these obviously right wing extremist manufacture-your-own-religion Protestants to know that it is a complete fabrication to extrapolate Scripture (no matter what your view of the actual words on the page) to in any way provide guidance on the subject of whether gays choose to be gay.
In fact, the Catholic Church has long held and still does that a homosexual orientation is neither chosen nor discovered, but rather it is 'discerned' - that is a term used to indicate an *intrinsic* trait. It further states that a homosexual orientation is morally neutral in and of itself - they take issue with acting on sexual impulses. One may take issue with the morality of the acts themselves, just as one may take issue with the any heterosexul sex acts per their own religious instruction but it is essentially that: the sex acts are the issue, and not the orientation.
The Freeper thread is full of intellectually dishonesty (oh, such a liberal term! Freepers recoil at the use of one's God-given brain for more than a hat rack!) therefore in their argument that merely being gay is enough to cause all of these horrible health consequences! The health problems are a result of specific sex acts (and illicit drugs), which are by no means the sole domain of gays and lesbians and are alive and well in the bedrooms of straight people who are equally at risk.
These are diseases and desperate personal situations having to do with life and death of other human beings, for God's sake! They're *not* weapons to be piously used to further your personal religious agenda! Let me repeat: these are not mrerely statistics - they are human beings! This is moral and intellectual dishonesty at its conservative best! It is dishonest no matter how you see it, and dishonesty is not one of the things I understood as part of Christ's ministry.
Jesus? What did Jesus say about homosexuality? Not a damn thing! Can I be gay without being promiscuous? Can I be gay without ever having sex or ever planning to? Absolutely - just as one doesn't need to have sexual experience to be heterosexual (it is an orientation and therefore discerned). So then, shall ww then teach children that those feelings that they discern are somehow sinful? No! That is part of the logic of the Catholic (whether or you like the Catholic mentality or not, this has great consequence) stance on the issue: we do not assign moral value to the discernment - it is neutral, it is an instinct, just as sight is discernment, and hearing is discernment!
Once they get over that little bump on the ride to Jerusalem, everything falls apart because they would then have to outlaw specific sex acts no matter who the partner is in order to demonize gays and lesbians. And still they would do nothing to deal with the discernment of orientation that is the sexual identity of each person - how do you regulate discernment? You can't.
So instead you put words in God's mouth (I don't think He likes that, my dear evangelical friends) and say that the Bible says gays choose their orientation! Oh, really? Where? Show me! Where in the Bible does it say this? One can argue that hte Bible warns against specific sexual acts (some specific to same sex situations) but there is not one word that says gays choose to be gay. And why? Because they do not!
You may not like what your neighbors or even your married children do in their bedrooms, so that is why we have doors on them! Mind your own damn business and if you really want to be a Christian, perhaps you ought to spend a little less time putting words in God's mouth to demonize people and do something to help those people who are sick with the diseases you lament, do something to support the youth who turn too often to suicide (talk about a Culture of Life - telling a child they are sinful and an abomination to God is no way to encourae a person tettering on the edge of suicide to 'look on teh bright side'), and perhaps even putting their big fat wallets where their big fat mouths are and supporting meaningful efforts to improve people's lives so that they don't engage in risky behaviors and have the best information (okay, so you think abstinence is the best way to go then go out and talk to gay people about being abstinent and help them to do so as best you can - I think that woudl be great).
What do you think Jesus Christ would say if he saw this Freeper post? Think about it! So you are a Christian - so am I - pick up the New Testament and read the gospels and tell me honestly that you believe He would tell you to sermonize to people if you really believed what you were saying! No! He would have been right there among them, without a single word of judgment, helping them selflessly and giving them hope and self esteem and love. Remember that commandment about love?
I don't know any commandment that says a thing about homosexuals, but there is one that Christ gave us: 'love one another!' No, no, no! Don't tell me, Mrs. Freeper D. Bushgod, that your post was an expression of love - tell Him! Go ahead and explain yourself to Him on His terms and then go look at your children and ask yourself what you would feel if you read the reactions of your Freeper pals knowing that one of those children was gay. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Sadly, I suspect you are not.
Yes, I know you are reading my Freeper brothers and sisters (I wretch at the thought) - don't pretend you are not (more dishonesty). Dismiss it if you will, but you know it is the truth and when you are all alone or talking to God it will be there too. "oh, but ours is the truth and this is lies all lies!" you say? You don't believe what you are saying, but you'd be terribly unpopular in Freeperville if you showed otherwise. What a hollow life - no wonder you need so many 'rules' to feel like you're a good person (here's an idea: how about *being* a good person rather than just *acting* like one? Ah, never mind...)
I'm done ranting for the day but this just could not go unanswered. In a word: immoral. And yes, i do know about paragraphs, Dipwad. How's this? Oh... and one more <hard return> for you, Scholar.
T. Morelli
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