There Are No Secrets In London...

[kentuck]

Just ask Tony Blair. Secret documents are leaking out like a sieve. All the "secret" conversations before the war are now coming public. If the American reader wishes to find out all the juicy details about the Downing Street Memo, they don't go to the NY Times - they go to the Times of London. The leaks are starting to turn into a flood. Republican supporters of George W Bush better hope he can swim.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. It would seem that some British throats are very deep.

Excellent.

[minnesotaDFLer]

2. thats because

people in that country demand answers.

[suziedemocrat]

3. What happened to our country?

Maybe the US was never what I thought it was. My immediate family are all Democrats - and yet for the most part they don't want to hear about the DSM. My cousins, etc. are Bush supporters and they seem to be deaf and blind to his faults. What is wrong with us???? But - look how we allowed McCarthyism. Maybe Americans are just too complacent.

[minnesotaDFLer]

4. we're lazy

thats what sucks about living in a capitalist society. people dont have to work.

[Horse with no Name]

13. And yet.....60,000,000+ votes were cast for American Idol

:shrug:

[minnesotaDFLer]

22. that's a lie

no way that many people watch that show, fox is bullshitting us

[Horse with no Name]

23. PLEASE NOTICE I did NOT say

that 60,000,000 people voted.
That would be a lie.
But there were many people who voted hundreds, if not thousands, of times.:)

[kiki]

14. You seem to be implying that the UK isn't a capitalist society...

It is.

People in the UK aren't really that politically active in general; we have our vast majority that just want to get on with their lives. In fact, I'd say that these days, Americans are more actively involved in politics - the only problems are that (1) that includes the demented right-wing ones, and (2) the lunatics running your country don't give a flying fuck how politically active people are (and that includes all the suckers that voted for Shrub), they do whatever the hell they want.

However, what we do have in the UK that you seem to be lacking in the US at the moment is journalists who can remember what the word "journalist" means.

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. Exactly right!

However, what we do have in the UK that you seem to be lacking in the US at the moment is journalists who can remember what the word "journalist" means.

Ethical US journalists are far and few between. It's pathetic. TV is nothing but corporate/government owned propaganda networks. I never watch the crap. It's useless when you want REAL news.

[kiki]

29. Well...

...it helps that we don't have the same localised TV system you guys have. We only have five terrestrial channels, and if one of them started spouting far-right garbage it would really stick out like a sore thumb. And of course we have the BBC, which Uncle Rupert will never be able to get his vile little mitts on...

[in_cog_ni_to]

18. dupe post

[Kathy in Cambridge]

25. Isn't the UK a capitalist country?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

5. I don't understand, either

Living through Watergate, when no one could get enough about what was going on - and even the OJ Simpson trial, when I had a charming conversation with a plumber at our house about what constituted "probable cause" - I simply cannot understand the utter lack of interest in our country as its raped, pillaged, and plundered by those feckless fuck squatters in the White House.

I just don't understand what happened to the outrage. We're murdering Iraqis, our soldiers are being murdered by Iraqis defending their country from our occupation, and America just sits on its fat ass and watches reality shows.

Where is the outrage?

[NJCher]

11. go read this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1540547
"More in Congress want Iraq exit strategy, Unease grows as war backing fall"

The futility of the war is preceding the awareness of DSM and the latest minutes leaks.

It's a mistake to think that what is on the media is representative of the American mindset. Viewership is way, way down; that is how the public is telling the broadcasting monopolies that what they have to say is no longer relevant or of interest.

I quit watching a long time ago but on the few occasions when I flick by a CNN report on the missing blonde in Aruba or the Michael Jackson circus, it makes me think of an abandoned carnival. The rides are still whirling, the cotton candy is still for sale and the lights are blinking--but the grounds are deserted.

It will come about. Not everyone sits on the Internet, tapping their fingers, waiting for the downfall (like you and I do).


Cher

[OldLeftieLawyer]

19. Speak for yourself, friend

Tapping away on the Internet is the least of what happens here. After a lifetime in the trenches, I now write fat checks to individuals and organizations who have taken my place on the front.

There's only the worst kind of sin in waiting for the downfall - if that's what you're doing - because inaction of any sort is precisely what these bastards are counting on.

Like you, I quit watching any kind of news coverage here in the USA - save for Keith Olbermann and TDS - but it's the people, the American populace, who scare me now. Their inertia is frightening. While we cheer the falling poll numbers, there are still substantial numbers of people who believe all is well.

Maybe each family has to lose someone in Iraq before something happens.

[NJCher]

24. you read that the wrong way

Tapping away on the Internet is the least of what happens here.

I don't see anywhere in my post where I say that's all I do.

All my life I've worked part-time so I could work the other half of the time on nonprofit causes. The latest of my activities have been in organizing marches and I've been doing this ever since they started with Clinton.

I'm glad you write checks, though. It's a good substitute if you can't be on the front lines.


Cher

[OldLeftieLawyer]

28. This was the line that you wrote:

"It will come about. Not everyone sits on the Internet, tapping their fingers, waiting for the downfall (like you and I do)"

That was easy to understand. You assumed that I sit ... waiting for the downfall, like you do.

You're wrong about me, and I'm glad you're able to do other things. Good for the world, but also good for the soul.

My forty-plus years of political activism were only the foundation - writing checks is never a substitute, only an adjunct to the generation that's now taking over.

[acmejack]

15. A nation anesthetized by it's excesses?

I believe it is from too much of everything! Food, comfort, TV. The sedentary lifestyles and rampant materialism. American's priorities are sadly skewed. Back in those days, Leftie, the majority of people knew who their Congressmen were. Now, only 30% can tell you. I am reluctant to say people were better educated then, but there is no question that the general public's knowledge of civics and geography was superior. I understand that neither are required subjects in our schools now. Ignorance is indeed bliss!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

20. I agree

My husband pointed something out to me last night. I don't know what he was watching on TV, but a commercial came on. It had b&w footage of WWII, dramatic scenes that whizzed by while an announcer talked about the sacrifices made by soldiers. I thought it was an ad for something on the History Channel.

In fact, it turned out to be a video game of some sort, about WWII. A video game ("suitable for teens").

Not a book.

A video game.

We're doomed, aren't we?

No civics? No geography? Really?

[chalky]

27. Saw that too, leftie. And was revolted.

To me it was as sickening as that Kennedy video game that was protested a few months back.

[chalky]

26. Ah, but OJ was on 24/7. It was "all OJ, all the time"

There was the slo-mo car chase shown "live!".
His face was on Newsweek, his face was on Time, then there was the controversy of how he was portrayed in that cover of Time. Then the live verdict, then the months of articles describing the reactions to the verdict. And on, and on, and on...

In the meantime the slaughter in Rwanda was happening, but who would know it by following the news?
If you'd asked an American back then about Rwanda, at best the response would have been, "Rwanda who? Is she related to OJ?"

[tavalon]

7. Or too adolescent

and too incapable of any form of higher reasoning. The gut has become more popular than the head.

[FreedomAngel82]

6. It seems to be

happening pretty fast now as well. :shrug: Or maybe it's just me. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of months.

:popcorn:

[Skink]

8. Remember when Princess Di was still alive and we had Clinton to

kick around. OOh things have changed.

[gumby]

10. Wondering the same.

Logged on and there seems to be a veritable flurry of stories.... all against the BushCo. We shall see.

[Nothing Without Hope]

9. And to BBC broadcasts - DONT MISS THESE - they're related to the DSM:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3813130
Thread title: "VIDEO: Downing Street Minutes - BBC-TV NEWS COVERAGE (3 Clips)"

These are not just short video clips, they are substantive broadcasts and they are not to be missed.

[snot]

12. If you appreciate the BBC as we've known it, PLS go here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=376080

Thanks!

[in_cog_ni_to]

16. Told hubby last night....the UK is helping us take down Bush

and I will be forever GRATEFUL to them! I wonder if this is coordinated with someone in the CIA? ;)

[TyeDye75]

21. Sounds like a good name for a book

Hopefully it will be the name of the text book that is used 30 years from now to teach students around the world about the downfall of the Bush administration