Clark, Kerry, Edwards supporters need to actively unite to stifle Dean

[Bombtrack]

If you support Dean, support him and bash me in a different thread please. I'd really only like to discuss this with non-dean supporters
---

I think that it is just as important to engage your fellow democrats to not vote or support Dean, as it is to promote your candidate.

He has tons of cash, and I believe that until Clark can show some staying power, that Dean is still the candidate to beat, and Clark, Kerry, and Edwards supporters should realize that Dean will be hard to defeat considering how much the right wants Dean nominated.

Think back to 1972 and Ed Muskie and what Nixon's people did then. Rove and co are alot better than that.

I don't know what the best strategy is, and I'd like the thoughts of Non-Dean supporters. I think urging undecideds to study national elections and politics. Or polling (for example the recent Gallup one which showed that Clark would Beat Bush and Dean did the worst of any candidate

I know this post isn't as well organized and strategic as I'd like it to be, but I'm hoping others with the same leanings can fill in the blanks

again this isn't for debate about how I'm an idiot and Dean-bashers are idiots. That's all been said before. Please only others who will admit to there abhorment of the prospect of Dean getting the nom and losing

[CMT]

1. but unite behind which candidate?

Edwards, Kerry or the front running Clark?

[Bombtrack]

27. it's not as important to decide that right now, as it is to educate people

about how much and why the GOP would prefur Dean to a strong candidate

[StopTheMorans]

30. Dean's not a strong candidate?

25 more bucks to the "weak" candidate.

[AWD]

31. Go educate yourself

Start with the proper spelling of "prefer"

Leave the bashing to the Repukes.....come to think of it, you DO bash like one?

Gee, I wonder.......

[shance]

59. Bomb - so cheap. If a candidate can't win on merit, you bash Dean??

Is this how you live your life in general by slandering and beating someone else down if you cant beat them fairly?

So much for may the best Democrat win and so much for Dems united.

Why are you spreading and creating hate, fear and division in the Democratic party? Why would you resort to that? Only because thats the only way to win? If youre candidate cant win on his qualifications and appeal, you'll do all you can to bring Dean down?

Win on merit and having a good enough candidate. If they cant win any other way, stay in the Senate. We need our Sentors to stay if they arent catching on as a presidential candidate, and weve had enough division in the party.

And also consider the possibility and/or potential reality that if a candidate doesnt have the courage to stand up to Bush now, then they wont then.

[dave29]

2. What a sentiment

Democrats unite to defeat Democrats

:wtf:

[PAMod]

18. Heh heh

At least the "Stop Clinton", the "Stop Carter", the "Stop Kennedy", etc. folks had their discussions in private.

Maybe they should have a web-site where they could discuss "issues" and raise money, etc.

I'm thinking of starting a "Stop Kerry, Lieberman, Sharpton, Mosely-Braun, Kucinich, Graham, Gephardt, Edwards, Clark" movement. Oh wait, there already is one - "Dean for America".

[Bombtrack]

29. what part of the 'dean supporters need not post' warning

don't you understand

you don't need to respond to this, or go start another thread if you need to

[salin]

32. What part of not being able to control a public board

do you not get?

I am not defined by any candidate - but this is the most pathetic thread I have read in a long time.

Shall we defer to you as BombsegrettiTrack?

[AWD]

35. Deal with it

You do not control who can post in what threads.

Look around you. You're overwhelmingly voted down as a disruptor who violated the spirit of democracy.

[StopTheMorans]

37. what part of "General Discussion Forum" and "message board"

don't you understand? If you want to post paranoid rants against the dem. candidates, why don't you create your own site where you can be the moderator and keep all free-thinking people away?

[BurtWorm]

41. What part of the First amendment do YOU not understand?

You want to try "stifling" our candidate and have us just sit by with our thumbs up our asses? Pleasant dreaming!

[ClintonTyree]

70. DON'T EVER..................

tell me what I can and cannot respond to on this board. When they change the name to "Bombtrack Underground", then you can set the rules. It would be a very lonely message board then as well. You're a few alerts away from being tombstoned. Just who the hell do you think you are?

[Democat]

3. I like both Dean and Clark, but the right wing seems to want Dean

As we get closer to the primaries, I worry about how far the Republicans will go in supporting Dean.

Remember what happened in California in the 2002 state election. Davis helped decide the Republican candidate, and the Republicans lost.

[KaraokeKarlton]

50. They want Dean for the same reason some Democrats don't want him...

They're all under the impression that they are dealing with the usual "liberal base". Times have changed and the new "base" is made up of voters all over the political board. With how many new voters and voters who haven't voted for a long time that Dean is pulling in and who are going to vote in the primaries, as long as the Democrats support him in the general, there is NO WAY Bush can beat him. For this reason Dean is the only GUARANTEE to beat Bush. None of the others are pulling in new voters like Dean is, and with the piss poor way the Democratic Party (and those like the author of this thread) have treated Dean, they sure aren't giving all those new voters a reason to want to vote for anyone else.

[shance]

65. Guys, that is PR strategy. When did you start taking at face value what

they say as being true? Since when have these guys ever spoken the truth?

With the Republicans you often have to look at what they say and know that they mean the exact opposite. Its not that hard to cite a wealth of examples.

[papau]

4. Hillary does as well as Clark - but that -for both- is due to recent PR

I think Edwards and Kerry and Clark are great - and continue to support Kerry. But tomorrow I go and listen to Dean (today Dean's folks are all over the place getting out the crowd for tomorrow - free buttons, stickers being handed out at street corners, etc.

They seem organized - and the rest do not.

[whirlygigspin]

9. If you wanna stop Dean

just get all your candidates to support Kucinich.

[StopTheMorans]

5. not bashing you, however

you just got Dean 50 dollars more from me right now.

[Julien Sorel]

6. This is just going to raise the level of paranoia here.

There's enough of that going around already.

[ClintonTyree]

7. Ridiculous...............

this crap has to stop. So much for the Democratic process, heh Bombtrack? I'm not sure whom I'm supporting as yet, but this type of shit plays right into the hands of the Republicans. This is exactly what they want, can't you understand that?

[Bombtrack]

34. dean is exactly what they want

that's what I understand

this is very serious.

[RetroLounge]

46. You don't understand democracy, and this stupid post

just got Dr. Dean $25 more buck...

He's over $500,000 in one day!

Keep up the good work, Bombtrack, Dr. Dean appreciates it, I'm sure.

[salin]

48. sure mr segretti

creating wedges and divisions, building up intraparty hostility and mistrust... now that isn't something the other side wants to happen.

[Pepperbelly]

62. LOL

Poor little Donnie!

:D

[quinnox]

8. I have always been negative on Dean

I think he would make a weak opponent for Bush, and these recent polls only reinforce my suspicions.

Although not a Clark supporter, mainly because I don't know much about him yet, I will reserve judgment until the first debate.

Regardless, in the end I would gladly vote for a Clark, if I knew he had a good chance to beat Bush. Bush has to go.

[papau]

17. Head to Head, Kerry and Clark BOTH beat Bush!

latest polls!

WH response was Clinton and Reagan were behind in polls a year before election and both won.

I kind of like watching the WH sweat!

[quinnox]

24. I saw that, great news!

I can't wait for the election.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bombtrack]

42. this thread is not for Dean supporters

.

[AWD]

43. Deal with it

I'm here, and you're outnumbered.

[RetroLounge]

51. "this thread is not for Dean supporters"

tough shit...Deal with it.

[Eloriel]

66. Tough, bombtrack. This thread is for anyone who wants to

participate in your pathetic, anti-democratic little ploy.

That's what Repugs do, btw, try to rig the system, one way or another.

Eloriel

[mlawson]

11. We can't build Edwards up, by knocking other candidates down!

I will have no part in this. Edwards and Dean are both fine candidates, and deserve better treatment than this by Dems!!!

[salin]

12. I think you have flipped.

One thing to criticize on of the candidates, their campaign or their policies. Another to endlessly bash. Lots of folks do that to different candidates.

Another to try to organize to harm any one of the democratic candidates - and to do so on a democratic/progressive board. WAY over the line.

Hell - I think it crosses into trolling territory.

[ClintonTyree]

20. My sentiments exactly.................

I was very close to clicking the alert. This shit has to stop.

[Hawkeye-X]

26. I just alerted

that the bashing has to got to stop. We should be unified and have reasonable discussion as to why we should vote for Candidate A, or Candidate B. Then leave it as is, not to bash Candidate A or even Candidate B. I may be firmly placed in the Dean camp, but I'm always willing to listen to why they are choosing their candidate and not to be turned off by constant bashing on Dean or Clark or Kerry or Edwards or any other candidates. We should focus on the electable candidates, not the bottom tier candidates. It's good that the bottom tier are debating, but for the sake of the unification, just let them send their message and drop out to maintain the real focus on the top five candidates.

That includes:

Clark, Dean, Kerry, Edwards and maybe Lieberman (name recognition, but he's going to be gone very soon anyways)

This shit has to got to stop.

Thanks!

Hawkeye-X

[liberalnurse]

28. Thank you Hawkeye

I'm getting to really want to avoid DU......

[salin]

36. but then the jerks win

and casual readers will think that this is what is representative of progressive thought. That would be a darn shame.

[Hawkeye-X]

49. No problem

Some days I see the latest news or GD discussion that is nothing but bashing Candidate A, Candidate B. My ignore list is going to grow quite large, but there is only two that is quite very critical of Dean, and I'm not going to say names, but one of them was very critical while I was a moderator, and under moderator rules, I had to tolerate his criticism until when I finally retired as a moderator, and the first thing was to place him on a permanent ignore until the candidate is chosen, then even that, he needs to learn how to stop bashing people left and right even when a Dean thread is started. I can see by the "Ignored" message on how much he's involved in these message. The other ignoree is because he's just plain rude.

My proposal is simply this:

We should focus on the realistic candidates that could be possibly nominated and not on the bottom tier that has been consistently polling low, but is trying to get his or her message out. The candidates are, indeed, listening and debating with each other as have been on the three public debates that was in, and of course, the Clark factor has to be considered, and knowing that he's a political neophyte, and his interest will wane very quickly as they realize that Clark has no political experience but very well-versed in defense, military and foreign affairs and would be a better VP now, then perhaps a President in 2012, when it's more realistic, but of course, I could be wrong.

I mean, we're approaching very close to the primary season with the declaration of candidacy coming out, but let's be realistic. The bashing of each other candidates turns off the DU folks who have been here quite some time, and we all have one goal: Removing the Ursurper out of the White House, permanently and making sure that the Republicans will be a minority for a long period of time until they understand that hypocrisy won't work in politics anymore.

Hawkeye-X

[onecitizen]

57. exactly salin.........

but this one flipped a long time ago.

[Pepperbelly]

63. bingo! nt

[HFishbine]

13. No Bashin

Just some questions.

What if the second choice of a Clark, Kerry, or Edwards supporters is Dean? Does your strategy still make sense?

Do you have a link to the Gallup poll you mention. I don't think your summary is correct, but I'm keeping an open mind if you can show me the data.

[Brian Sweat]

14. You don't get to start a thread

and then decide who can respond and how.


Aside from being a good man, how is Dean like Muskie?

I think you have failed to make a valid point for why we should all gang up on Dean. This doesn't surprise me, because I don't think such a case can be made. The only person we need to gang up on is Bush.


I am a Clark supporter by the way.

[Bombtrack]

56. dean isn't like muskie

Dean is like McGovern, the strong general-election candidates are like Muskie.

The thing that Clark Kerry and Edwards have in common that there appeal is deeply rooted in there ability to beat Bush and Dean's is that he is anti-war.

that is the case. I support Edwards, but I realize it's more important and urgent right now for Dean's canidacy to implode before it's too late than for Edwards to win it all.

I really can't get thrilled about Clark or Kerry but strategically we need to recognize that in this case the enemy of our enemy is our friend

[salin]

58. so how far would you go

to make it implode? Just curious.

[StopTheMorans]

60. don't test people like this

you never know what they're capable of.

[AWD]

61. Speaking of implosions...

...something tells me you've just been outed as "not on our team"

And I don't mean of the sexual persuasion.

[salin]

15. and who are you to get to decide - on a public board

who can participate.

Lets try this.

Hey guys - lets put handcuffs on all people wearing blue shirts to prevent them from being able to compete for jobs requiring dexterity.

But you folks in blue shirts - shut up. You aren't welcome in this discussion.

Sheeeeeeeez. I think I walked into a second grade classroom where the substitute teacher is filling in and someone just lost all self-control.

[AWD]

16. Amen salin!!!!

Words of truth from my friend one state to the West!

Oh, but people from Illinois are not allowed to praise Salin. Only Buckeyes and Hoosiers.

[DemPopulist]

19. It would be hard for me frankly

I'm an Edwards supporter and I could live with Kerry or Gephardt but Clark is sort of beyond the pail for me, maybe more than Dean even. I don't like the contrived, insider-backed nature of his candidacy. I don't like the fact that I was sort of misled to believe he was a longtime Democrat being coy about his party affiliation actually he joined the party...last week. The whole thing's pretty disturbing to me.

I'm not sure who I'd support in a Clark/Dean race.
:shrug:

[Jim Sagle]

21. This thread ain't nuthin' but shit.

[TLM]

22. Please keep posting stuff like this....

you make Dean look like more of a threat, and you make the supporters of other candidates look despearte...

Thanks for the help.

[AWD]

23. My order of candidates

The order of favoritism for me...

Dean
Kucinich
Kerry
Clark
Edwards

So I just took myself into the corner and 60% of me beat the shit out of 20% of me. The other 20% started a Department of Peace and save me from being hospitalized.

[Iris]

55. great response!

:yourock:

[Mairead]

25. This seems both disingenuous and unhealthy, to me :-(

Though very 'American' of course.

[KaraokeKarlton]

33. Wow, I didn't realize Al From posted at DU...

n/t

[JNelson6563]

45. me neither!

This is one of the more absurd and childish threads I've seen in a while. And that's sayin' something!!

Julie

[Bertrand]

47. lol

that was pretty funny :-)

[AP]

38. I think Dean is going to collapse in upon his own contradictory logic

I listened to his Bryant Park speech, and, you know what, it's crazy. It's full of half sentences, dodges (he won't define himself), and logical inconsistencies. It remings me of that Dukakis joke about GHWB on Saturday Nigh Live back in 88: "I think and speak in full sentences. I can't believe I'm losing to this guy." Well, not speaking in full sentences is actually a strategy to make it hard for people to define you. It allows people to fill you up with whatever meaning you chose to fill the person with, and your choice of meaning is usually driven by emotion.

I think logic always wins over emotion if you get everything else on a level ground (Dukakis, being a NE liberal, was never going to really get close enough to Bush to allow rationality to triumph over emotion, but Clinton did, and GWB needed the Supreme Court to beat Gore).

Dean did what he needed to do to get money (attack Bush), but it bought him a higher profile which has forced the light to shine on what he stands for, and there are lots of contradictions in his message. Like I said, I think the message will eventually wilt in the sunlight.

[kodi]

39. sweet jesus on the cross, i am not a dean backer, but this is insane

afer taking numerous hits for pointing out the adolescent behavior by a few deanies attacking clark, i see this thread?

i am getting tired of none of the candidates, but i sure wish some of their supporters would blow their fucking brains out and leave the debates about the candidates to the adults in the room.

[gully]

53. Right on!

"i am getting tired of none of the candidates, but i sure wish some of their supporters would blow their fucking brains out and leave the debates about the candidates to the adults in the room."

:thumbsup:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

40. Logic police here

bash me in a different thread please. I'd really only like to discuss this with non-dean supporters

Although I would like to, I don't write the rules for DU nor do you. Therefore, I can't start a thread bashing you and you cannot stop me or anyone else from posting in this thread.

Dean will be hard to defeat considering how much the right wants Dean nominated.

Got proof?

Think back to 1972 and Ed Muskie and what Nixon's people did then. Rove and co are alot better than that

Steering with the rearview mirror again?

don't know what the best strategy is,

Then why not ask that question rather than initiate an attack on others simply because your candidate isn't polling well enough to get any nod?

[salin]

54. because some folks

fashion themselves to be omniscient, but can't quite predict the repsonse to their own thread - let alone an election.

Thing is - calling for a strategy session to come up with ways to defeat Dean - appears quite segrettian to me. But turning on one's own ranks to do so.

[phegger]

44. stifle???

I'm a Clark supporter but jeez, how "democratic" is that?

Let the best man win, I say.


-ph B-)

[gully]

52. Here's my new emoction for "Karl Rove thanks you"...

can't think of a better thread to use it...

:nuke:

I heard a report on Faux news that said the Bushies* fear Dean more than ANYBODY. They have never seen anything like Howard Dean before. They don't know what his grassroots campaign is capable of.

[Bombtrack]

68. you heard it on fox? enough said

.

[acerbic]

64. You want to "unite" even more actively than you already do?

Wow, that's naughty! :evilgrin:

[Booberdawg]

67. Sounds more like a personal problem

As in, YOUR problem.

Obvious and deliberate disruption. What a stupid suggestion. :eyes:

[Skinner]

69. I'm locking this.

I don't think we need any of our members "actively uniting" to attack any of the Democratic Candidates.

Please, feel free to discuss the negatives or positives of any candidate. But I don't think it's appropriate for people to be organizing in this way. It'll inevitably lead to more disruption and paranoia.

Skinner
DU Admin

[HazMat]

71. I agree - I'm 100% ABBD

I view Dean to be a result of Rove splitting the party with the Iraq Resolution. BushCo knew what they were doing; even if the war turned out to be unpopular, they would get to face a weak, divisive, unelectable candidate. Dean supporters are Rove's "useful idiots".

Dean must be stifled because Bush must be beaten. It's completely democratic. Supporters of other candidates have the right and the duty to unite for the sake of this country.

Dean will be destroyed in a general election and will take the party down with him like McGovern did. McGovern's supporters only woke up on election night. We cannot afford to wait for the Deanies to wake up.

We cannot play on the Deanies field; they will tell you about "grassroots" and "democracy" while simultaneously attempting to drown out the voices of reason. They are a misguided movement like Britney-mania. Ever wonder how in the world those bubble gum pop bands sell so many cd's ? It's our job to stop the madness.