How do I respond to an Active Military about this ?

[Twist_U_Up]

I sent out info about the DSM on a forumn I hang out at and This is how its going:

First reply: "TWist, Glad to see yo have such a high level of activism on this topic. It needs to be heard. I think its only those pimple brained idiots that voted him into office that dont see the scandal and unfortunately never will.

The old guard still runs this country, Republicans. They are the ones that made an illegal war possible , combating this and sweeping it under the rug will be child's play for them. Best we can do is wait out his term and hope to find an honest leader in our future so we can go back to living like free Americans and not the pawns of an evil empire."

Second reply is from an active military personnel: "Like who John Kerry???

Don't worry though I keep doing my job so you guys can keep expressing your views. "


How do I respond to him without disgracing him at the same time. I respect the people that put their lives on the line for my family and I.

I just can`t seem to find the right words. Help

[bowens43]

1. Tell him the truth.

John Kerry would have been a better choice then bush and the war Iraq has nothing to do with protecting the United States or protecting our rights to free speech. In fact since bush has been in office , our civil rights have been severely curtailed and our country is less safe.

If he truly wants to make sure that we can keep expressing ourselves then he should make a large donation to the ACLU.

[Twist_U_Up]

2. I was just writing

Yea John Kerry would have been lol

I will add this also If you don`t mind.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

3. You might say that yes, exactly like John Kerry, the only candidate

that could to begin to lead the military from actual experience. Kerry went to war, fought and then came back and fought for soldiers just like your active duty friend. Only someone who has been in combat in an unjust war can honestly have the first hand experience to work to save his fellow comrades. That your friend believes campaign rhetoric is disheartening, we especially need our military to be critical thinkers.

The American people ask a lot of its military personnel. The military and the American people have a social contract. We support, acknowledge and appreciate their service. We understand under that same contract they are obligated to obey orders, fight and risk arm and limb for us. Our part of the contract is we promise never to ask them to risk their lives for any but the best of reasons. We promise not to abuse or take for granted their service. We cannot ask you to give up your life for false reasons. And by standing up to a "leader" who consciously ran from duty, who misled Americans into war, who has cut funding for protection and benefits for those soldiers we are honoring your sacrifices in the only way we can - by protecting you while you protect us. We've got your back.

[Twist_U_Up]

6. This is Great , friendly also

This is point on what I was looking for

The Military person is also a distant friend that I have grown to know on a on line gaming community

this is perfect

[Democrat 4 Ever]

10. Thanks. n/t

[Retired AF Dem]

9. Nice post

Thanks.

[punpirate]

4. As former military...

... m'self, I would ask the following questions:

How is prosecuting an illegal war fought for specious reasons protecting my rights to free speech? You seem to equate the two, so you have an obligation to explain yourself.

The oath taken is to defend the Constitution--and to defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic. It may be an alien concept to you, but what if the commander-in-chief and the people with whom he has surrounded himself are war criminals, are engaging in attempts to subvert the Constitution and our rights, and may well, in time, be found to be domestic enemies of the people because of their illegal actions? This is not an idle question--Richard Nixon was once the commander-in-chief of the military, too.

Since you seem to make it a point of who's leading this country, why is a privileged son who ran away from his National Guard duties and obligations preferable to someone who did one tour in Vietnam, volunteered for another and was decorated for his actions?

[Twist_U_Up]

5. wow Thanks

This is awesome. Smacked me right in the forehead !

But this guy is also a friend, a little harsh but oh so very real

[leesa]

18. Use it. It is NOT too harsh. Truth is always better.

[Pepperbelly]

7. how do you know that the person IS ACTDU military? nt

[Twist_U_Up]

8. Through the course of 4 years

Through an on line gaming community. He has shown us pics of himself and his troop through the forum. He also tells us what hes been up to . Through the on line gaming community in the game itself their is chat and I have talked to him alot while playing.
He is stateside now

[Pepperbelly]

12. I did my obligation to the nation as well and ...

I think he has his head up his ass, particularly if he believes that gives him a more valid opinion than others.

[Rebellious Republican]

11. Here ya go, and anyone that can add to this please do!

Please feel free to add or edit as you feel you need.

This is how I would respond:

First let me preface what I am about to say to you with this. I want you to know that I honestly do respect what you are doing for me and our great country. Yes, I am grateful that I can express my views through the hard work, blood, sweat and tears of honorable and dedicated people like you. As well as those that have fought and died for our freedoms through out the history of our Democracy.

It is not the soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines that I have a problem with. Rather it is the policy makers and their reasons for going to war in Iraq.

I myself have family and friends that have served honorably in the military to protect our precious freedoms, and understand full well the sacrifices they made for anyone to speak freely and without worry of retribution. Sometimes it is necessary to defend those freedoms through war.

While we had legitimate reasons for going into Afghanistan to track down and bring to justice Osama Bin Laden. For murdering three thousand people and committing acts of aggression and terrorism on American soil, I had no problem with that.

However we had no provocation for committing our troops to be sent into harms way and killed or maimed. It is very serious business and forever changes peoples lives, just ask any of your comrades mothers that have lost sons or daughters. Ask any of your fellow servicemen and women that are missing body parts and what it has done to change their lives.

While you may think my protest may be unpatriotic or demeaning to you and your fellow warriors, and that your personal sacrifices are meaningless and that I do not value your lives. That is quite the opposite of what I am really trying do and or say. I am fighting to bring as many of you and your friends home alive and with all your body parts that I can.

As far as choice of leadership, let me ask you if you have had superiors that you have served with and worked under that taught you the things you need to know to do your job, to the best of your ability. I am sure must have and or had leaders that you placed value in their experience and knowledge that may have served in previous conflicts.

Because of their own personal knowledge and insight from having been in life threatening situations before you, they were able to pass on extremely valuable knowledge that has and or will keep you alive in battle.

Let me ask you then, what makes you think some one like George W. Bush or Dick Cheney can fully comprehend the war that they have placed you in. Say what you will about John Kerry’s activism after his return from Vietnam, at least he knows what it is like to be shot at during a war far from those that he loved. He did not try to hide from the war; he was a volunteer just like you. He asked to go there, because he felt it was his moral obligation to defend our freedoms, including the freedom of expression.

You may want to take a long hard look at the people that are sending you and others like you into harms way and why they are sending you there. Here is some reading for you (see links below)to make a more informed decision about your own views.

And I do thank you for what you are doing and do not begrudge you for your having your own opinions, you are an honorable person who believes you are doing the right thing, or you would not be there. That can not be said for our president and or Vice President.

http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

http://www.awolbush.com/index.html

http://www.nhgazette.com/news/chickenhawks/politicans_platoon/


http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=%20NEWS%3B%20Chickenhawks

[Rebellious Republican]

14. Oh by the way, I am former (combat) military (Ex- Navy),just like PB,

[Pepperbelly]

15. my son's in now and ...

man, the navy has changed BIG TIME from when I was in ... mid to late 70s.

My son has been gone for almost a full year and they have not yet allowed him any leave whatsoever. He went through a thing with them when he was between schools during the holidays where when he would bring his leave chit to the appropriate place, the ass-hats working there ... po 2s and 3s (like me when I got out) played a stupid game with him where they would not accept his chit because this blank or that blank was "wrong". He would then have to start over from scratch and when he returned, they would be gone. He is enough of a boot-camp that he wasn't sure what to do about it.

Steamed me big time.

[Rebellious Republican]

16. It was changing when I got out PB, 78 - 88.

I went through an "A" school in 78 by, 88 they were trying to figure out a way to change it, so they could run all military personnel with that NEC through it.

The first problem was, that individual sailors were trained to do everything from writing the job order to everything in between and deliver the final product.

The second problem was that because of limited space on board ship, you had to have everyone cross trained, less personnel to do the same job. Jacks of all trades, masters of none you know what I am talking about.

Then you had the highly specialized Air Force, it took five people to do the same job as one sailor. How do you combine all these schools into one when they are so different in their perspective rates?

Me and wife had an opportunity to visit that base where my former school was, a few years back. Well they must have figured it out because the sign on the building read "DOD Schools of" instead of "Naval Schools of".

Also at the time of my training it was considered one of the best schools in the country, CIVILIAN or military for its subject.

As I recall the Navy was also considered one of the more laid back services, as opposed to the Air Force who seemed to have a penchant for crossing their T's and dotting their i's.

I guess that mentality has infiltrated the Navy, so sad!

[unhappycamper]

13. You might also want to remind him of

The trend in Veteran's benefits The new head of the VA stated he did not see the need additional funding for taking care of returning vets, nor did he see the need to extend the time frame for diagnosing and treating PTSD.

Point out the recent recommendation to close Walter Reed.

Point out the average wait time to see a doctor.

Point out the annual copay requirement to be in the system.

Stop loss Under the stop loss program, your original term of service contract can be null and void at any time. Ask him how many of his buddies are affected by stop loss.

You might want to point out the terrible toll this is taking on the Guard and Reserve components.

A district court in Seattle recently (May, I think) ruled that a 29-year extension to a soldier's contract was legal. This lad was within a month of finishing his eight year obligation & was extended by the Army for 29 years.

Ask him how many tours of combat duty he or his buddies have had in the last two years.

Base closings Where are the families of soldiers going to live with the recent BRAC closings? What is the housing budget for military families?

Army Regulation 210–35, dated 14 January 2005 Ask him if he is familiar with this regulation aptly titled "Civilian Inmate Labor Program." What training have he or his buddies had supervising "civilian inmate labor programs?" Tell him to get the AR and read it.

Finally, mention that he will most likely be forced sometime in the near future to make a choice between his oath to "protect against all enemies, foreign and domestic" or obeying orders of the current regime. He will not have the time to think about it when it occurs. It's best he does some serious soul searching now.

NOTE: There are DU threads on all of the above subjects; I'm too lazy to dig them out for you. You should also be able to google links to news articles on the above points.

Been there, done that:
RVN, class of 67~68, 198th Light Infantry Brigade, Chu Lai
RVN, class of 70~71, 25th Infantry Division, Cu Chi

[shadowknows69]

17. tell him you'd rather have him safe and alive

and defending our freedoms at home.