Rep. Harold Ford...STFU

[spanone]

They just qouted Harold Ford Jr. on MTP saying he won't have Howard Dean in Tennessee. Well Harold, You just LOST MY VOTE YOU ASSHAT.

[dennis4868]

1. Hey Mr. Ford......

you and all you other spineless waste of human life democrats should be kissing Dr. Dean's ass for what he is now doing!

[in_cog_ni_to]

2. Harold Ford is no Democrat. he's a repuke in Dem clothing.

STFU is right! Why don't these people just change parties? Why doesn't the Dem leadership ENCOURAGE them to change parties? :grr:

[spanone]

4. I saw him speak last summer before the election.

He was totally FOR THE FUCKING WAR IN IRAQ. Still defends it. He's
one slick politician.

[atreides1]

3. Perhaps Rep. Ford

Should make sure his own house is clean before he comments on someone else.

Maybe he should give some advice to his uncle!!!

[murielm99]

5. E-mail him and let him know what a fool he is.

[e-mail]

[DemFromMem]

11. The alternative?

People - Sorry to say it, but a black Democrat is not going to win a US Senate seat in our state UNLESS he can get a significant number of independent and moderate Republican votes. Ford has moved to the right because it is the only way he is going to get elected. Would you rather have another Frist (the seat he's running for)? I'd take a conservative Democrat in a second over any Republican. If you want Ted Kennedy to be the chair of the Judiciary Committee again, it's going to require you to support conservative Democrats in conservative states.

If I were advising Ford, I'd tell him he's doing it exactly right. People forget Bill Clinton was a DLC Democrat when he got elected in 92. But once he got into power, he appealed broadly to Democrats. I believe once Ford wins the seat, he'll moderate.

Incidentally, Hilary is doing the exact same thing right now. She's no idiot.

[spanone]

14. I disagree. He was FOR THE INVASION OF IRAQ.

When I heard him speak last summer he was shameless in his support of Bush* on Iraq. At that time he was running for nothing. Hillary is NOT slapping Dean around. He's in his FIFTH term as Rep. and he's allowed his agenda to be known. He calls himself a fiscal conservative, you ever hear him taking Bush* to task on the deficit??????? I haven't. He's a politician watching his own ass. I think as a Tennessean, we can do better.

[tishaLA]

61. Ford is ALWAYS running for something

in that way he is like most politicians.

FWIW, I think Ford, like Pres. Clinton, actually IS a fiscal conservative but I don't follow him well enough to determine whether he has ever taken george to task on the deficit.

[leesa]

15. PEOPLE (what an arrogant thing to say) Going to the right is wrong.

YOU are wrong. How many years of DLC losership do we have to endure???

[KharmaTrain]

16. Shhhh...You're Speaking Reality

This place is for ranting and dreaming of utopias and applying "holier than thou" standards on everyone. Either you cut it or you're a homophobe/sexist pig/DINO/Freeper lurker and so on. Don't throw reality into the mix here...especially when it comes to winning the elections needed to really make a difference; winning back the House and Senate. It's more fun to dream impeachements and pipedreams of 2008.

That said, I think Rep. Ford has accomodated far more for my tastes to the "other side of the aisle". In addition to his on-going support for this invasion (I can see that being a tough issue to run on in Tennsessee), he's also lined up with the GOOP on some bills that hurt the middle and working class, but help his own political ambitions. It's sad, cause I used to like Harold a lot...and wish I still could.

[Beacho]

27. yes, pragmatism is one thing

But why did Ford go OUT OF HIS WAY to attack Dean? why did he have to say anything?

[Toots]

37. "to really make a difference"

Umm what difference? Republican light is still Republican. He would be considered a hard right Republican in 1966 with his ideas and view of the world.

[DemFromMem]

60. Party labels matter

Those Repubican-lights you condemn are necessary for the Democrats to control the Congress. If you want ideological purity, then we'll have 50 more years of minority party status. When Katherine Harris becomes majority leader and Antonin Scalia becomes Chief Justice, you can ask yourself if it was all worth it.

[Bill McBlueState]

107. sigh, you're right

Ford's an asshole, but he'll still vote for our guy for speaker. And that matters a whole lot more than his stance on any particular issue.

[depakid]

137. You're so totally wrong

That style of thinking- it's narrow minded non-sense- and it's why the Dems continue to lose. Look at the evidence over the past 10 years and 6 elections.

Republican lite, stand for nothing, mealy mouthed moderation (and pandering) is what's brought you the Federal courts you're seeing right now. I think maybe you need to ask yyourself whether you want to keep travelling down this dysfunctional road or whether maybe it's time a for a little paradigm shift....

[KharmaTrain]

70. Crawl, Walk, Run, Fly...

I'd love to see 60 plus Progressive Democrats in the Senate and 350 or so in the House. I'd love to win the lottery as well. Instead, let's look at things where they are now and what is realistic to expect.

Even a "Repugnican Lite" or DINO beats the hell out of another wingnut...another Frist. A Ford, for all his faults, would still vote with the Democrats and for more of our causes than against them...and certainly more than Frist or any Tennessee Senator since Al Gore. Baby steps, sure, but steps.

Also, if Democrats win control of the House and Senate, watch how the dynamic changes as well. Those who looked for someone across the aisle to buddy with won't have to anymore. Instead of the power flowing from a James Sensennbrenner, it would go to John Conyers...think about how that would make a difference.

So many here tend to jump to where we would like to be rather than see things where they really are. Painful, but we're still trying to turn a corner here...we can't keep eating our own and expect to move forward.

[tx_dem41]

123. Hard right Republicans had 100% ratings from NARAL and...

Planned Parenthood in 1966? Hard right Republicans had a 14% rating from the National Taxpayer's Union (hard right organization) in 1966? Hard right Republicans had a 94% rating from the NEA in 1966? Hard right Republicans were endorsed by the Sierra Club in 1966?> Hard right Republicans had a 90% rating from the League of Conservation Voters in 1966?

My, the things you learn on DU!

[DemFromMem]

53. misjudgements

I also agree that Ford has taken some positions that I'm not sure really help him. For example, I was really PO'd that he supported the bankruptcy bill. But I also know that I'm not going to agree 100% with him no matter where he is on political spectrum. And I think it is the rare Democrat that supports every position taken by the party establishment.

[tishaLA]

68. Good post

I used to like Rep. Ford quite a lot too, but he has disappointed me in recent years. I understand some of the positions he takes are pragmatic choices, especially for someone young with seemingly limitless political ambition, and I wish he were more progressive on a variety of issues.

I may not like him any longer, but I don't think I dislike him either.

[me b zola]

20. Here's the alternative

http://www.senatorrosalindkurita.com/


:smoke:

[DemFromMem]

63. Not a chance

She could be superb, but Ford's got the nomination locked up. So we need to decide if we want to be united and get Frist's seat back into the hands of a Democrat or whether we want six more years of GOP control.

[Clark2008]

142. Yep... I don't know of a Dem sole in RL who is voting for Rosalinda

Harold's got the nomination locked up.

And - he may very well win.

There are lots of deficit-hawk Republicans looking for an alternative to the Southern fundie machine.

(Corker, a Republican, would be a good bet for those types in the primaries, but the fundies won't back him.)

[tnlefty]

129. Thank you!!! I'll take her any day over Ford. I met her and I really

liked her.

[tx_dem41]

130. What do her poll numbers look like? n/t

[Clark2008]

143. RL Dems in the state (other than those in or near her district)

have never even heard of her.

I'm guessing she doesn't show up much on the radar.

I have no proof of this, because no poll has been taken - I'm just going by my knowledge of local politics.

[Jade Fox]

22. Done. Thanks for the link. n/t

[Fleshdancer]

6. Be sure to post this in the State forum too n/t

[pstans]

7. I agree

Ford are you really a Democrat?

[bullimiami]

8. i agree. here is his quote from imus. nauseating.

and just plain wrong. maybe he should actually find out WHAT dean says and if it is factual before he starts opening his lame yapper.



Imus: "On another note here, speaking of the Democratic Party, which you are a member of, how's Howard Dean working for you?"
Rep. Harold Ford Jr.: "(Laughing) I won't have him down so many times in Tennessee on the campaign trail with me. He has made some comments as of late that really speak to a lack of understanding I think, of the country, a lack of understanding of faith and values. I'm a Democrat and I'm a God fearing one. I grew up in church. Christianity is not reserved for white males. I think perhaps Governor Dean sometimes gets a little excited at the mouth, and says things that are simply not true. It may reach a point where if he can't find a way to kind of control some of his comments, and temper his comments, it may get to the point where the party may need to look elsewhere for leadership, because he does not speak for me, and I know he does not speak for a majority of Democrats and I dare say Republicans in my home state. I know that other, even Senator Biden and others, have made some stronger comments about him. I look forward to having a chance to sit with him here in the next day or so. I think he's going to be here in Capitol Hill a little later today to meet with us. I want to ask him directly. Can he contain himself in a lot of ways, and what is his thought process in a lot of these issues because it is not representative of where the party is."

[spanone]

10. You know what Harold, as DNC chariman he DOES SPEAK FOR YOU.

So why don't you just cross the isle and get it over with. PS, I bet your Uncle was God fearing Dem too, raised in a church, blah blah blah. That means absolutely nothing to me.

[CTLawGuy]

18. hey Harry

When did Howard Dean say only white males could be Christians?

Don't they teach reading comprehension in TN public schools?

[SlavesandBulldozers]

28. you mean he's not white? and not a Republican?

Jesus this is the first I've noticed these things.

[LSK]

29. show me where Dean said Christianity is only for white males

Looks like this is another guy who reads only the headlines. And apparently he has NEVER watched an entire Dean speech.

[Frederik]

51. Unbelievable

"Christianity is not reserved for white males"

Did Dean say that? Could Deans' comment about the GOP being "pretty much a White Christian party" in any possible way be misunderstood in that way?

Let me explain this to you, Ford:

Dean said most Republicans are 1) white, and 2) Christian. That is, BOTH white and Christian. Which, as you point out, are two different things, but what Dean said was that most Republicans have BOTH those attributes. Dean did not say "only whites are Christians, and by the way, I think Christianity sucks". He said "The Republican party is pretty much a white, Christian party.

"He does not speak for a majority of Democrats"

That's a bold statement, to say the least.

[stickdog]

88. OK, Harold

"Republicans are pretty much white Christians" = "Christianity is reserved for white males"

:wtf:

What is with all these "Democrats" going out of their way to put their bullshit words in Dean's mouth?

[flyarm]

121. NO HAROLD....

"Can he contain himself in a lot of ways, and what is his thought process in a lot of these issues because it is not representative of where the party is."

YOUUUUUUUUUUUU SIR ARWE NOT REPRESENTITIVE OF WHERE THE PARTY IS..SO GET YOUR ASS OUT IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHERE THE PARTY IS!!

DEAN SPEAKS FOR ME..NOT YOU SIR!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE OUT OF TOUCH...AND WHEN WILL YOU BRING UP THE FACT THAT YOU VOTED FOR A LIE OF A WAR????????? HAROLD!!!!!!!!!!!

[slor]

9. Where the hell do all these Black Dems...

get their views. First, let me make clear, I am a African-American, Lifelong Liberal, and this pisses me off!. Yes, there are quite a few Caucasian Dems, that denounced Dean, but it is particularly hurtful to me, when a fellow AA does something like this. Obama, now Ford! Get your heads out of your DLC-fattened asses, and fight the good fight!

[buff2]

12. Obama?

What did he do? I must have missed it. Damn....I liked Obama....but I never did care for Ford. I always thought he was a republican in dem's clothing. :puke:

[Freddie Stubbs]

13. Probably not from his DNA

Are you assuming that all African Americans think alike due to thier skin color?

[slor]

21. No, I am saying as...

a African American, who has lived the American experience, that I expect more from the politicians, that share my ancestry. I named two AA politicians, that appear to be siding with the group of people that threaten the lives of people of low economic stature, of every ethnic background. It is a huge leap, to suggest that I am "assuming that all African Americans think alike due to thier skin color". I just do not expect those on my side, to behave as unpaid Armstrong Williams(es).

[jobycom]

80. I'm curious

I understood your comment, and read it as a commentary on two politicians, not a stereotyped generalization. But I have a stereotyped generalization question.

In many parts of the country, AA candidates can't get elected without winning a lot of white, moderate votes. They have to tailor their message to appeal to moderate to conservative white voters. So they take the "go along to get along" approach.

I'm thinking of Obama and Ford, but also Colin Powell, who may have had to take that approach to reach his level in the military.

Contrast that to Conyers, Rangel, Jackson Lee, Waters, etc, who win in mostly black districts, so they don't have to moderate their message.

I don't mean that Obama and Ford are just trying to appease their voters--more like, they won because they are the type of candidates who think like that in the first place. In some ways, it is the constituencies who are promoting this message by voting for candidates who deliver this message.

Make any sense? I make no sense these days.

[slor]

127. Your comments make a great deal of sense...

and they are probably what goes through the minds the minds of AA politicians that have a large white constituency. But I believe, that if the politician is honest, and straight forward about the issues, they can win all, but the most ardent racist voter.
My own values are quite Liberal and in terms of government, many would believe me to be a socialist. But, I also believe in capitalism, I just believe that you can do it ethically, and still make money. We have allowed the rethugs to send the message that we ARE socialists or communists, and that we are coming after what little they might have. Or that we are unpatriotic, because we questioned the point of this war. We need to fight that message, not by going overboard, and being all pro-business, all the time, as the DLC seems to have done, or to ignore the facts of the Iraq folly, but to say, big business cannot always get it's way, one must also think about the concerns of small businesses and the general public too, and that this war has made us LESS secure, not more so.
Those in power seek to divide us, to weaken us, so that they may stay in power. It has been very effective between whites and blacks. But I want a politician to say that, to point it out to the people. And how we can change it for the better, by working together. Dean was saying it early on. That is a message people will respond to.

I know I went off on a tangent, but it all boils down to the same issue. Quit trying to be safe and say what really matters. We are more alike in this country, and in the world than we give credit to. Most of us believe in fair play, and the chimp clearly looks out for his own, that is why his numbers are in a free fall, because even his supporters are beginning to see it. So Dems, please run with it!

[CTLawGuy]

19. I think

head-up-your-ass-itis knows no color.

[me b zola]

17. Rosaland Kurita is a Dem running against Ford for the Senate

She is currently a state Senator. I don't know her stances on the issues, but it is unlikely that she is a threat to our party's integrity the way that Ford is.

http://www.senatorrosalindkurita.com/

[paulk]

24. the real question is -

does she have a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected?

another question -
would you rather have your "party's integrity" intact, or would you rather have someone with a (D) next to their name in office?

[AntiCoup2K4]

25. A (D) next to their name doesn't make a damn bit of difference......

...if every word out of their mouths and every vote has an (R)

[spanone]

26. She may have a chance...the name Harold Ford stinks in TN right now.

His uncle, a state Senator, just resigned after being busted on video taking a bribe.

[paulk]

135. is she really an improvement on Ford?

some posts in this thread question that...

I don't know much about TN, other than it's pretty conservative.

[me b zola]

47. if they have a "D" after their name, but vote with the "R"s

then they are no good for the party or the nation. The question of the party's integrity is an important one. If we continue to allow so-called Dem's to be elected in our name, who vote for corporate interest over the citizens interest, people are going to leave the party in droves, and what remains won't matter because the Democratic Party will in effect be an appendage of the republican party.

There is a battle for the soul of the Democratic Party happening right now. It is every bit as important as the battle to defeat the neo-cons, maybe more so. How can we possibly defeat the neo-cons if we enable them? :shrug: It is in our best interest to have a strong Democratic Party that represents the citizens interest.

[paulk]

133. a "D" next to the name is still important

it's a step on the way to control of the Senate or House, where it would give more liberal Democrats committee chairmanships and a better chance to advance the overall Democratic agenda.

We're standing on the brink of fascism and you think the "battle for the soul of the Democratic Party" is more important that defeating the neocons?

Such thinking fills me with despair. It's "the pure as enemy of the good" thinking and it practically guarantees that the neocons will win.

[AntiCoup2K4]

23. Fucking Moonie & PNAC sellout

:puke:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

30. Ford is the poster boy for the DLC & cheerleader for those attacking Dean

[tx_dem41]

31. And the DU "Reign of Terror" continues....

the Robespierres, sadly, are out in force this morning.

[spanone]

32. Have no idea what you are talking about?

[tx_dem41]

34. And THAT is the problem, isn't it? n/t

[Don Claybrook]

38. Not for me

I know who Robespierre is, and Harold Ford needs to shut the fuck up.

[tx_dem41]

42. It will be your problem eventually.

It always is. That's why we need to learn the lessons history teaches.

[Frederik]

55. Can you perhaps explain why

DU's reaction to Ford's shameless attack on Dean is related to the lesson of what happened in revolutionary France?

[Don Claybrook]

62. You're not understanding this issue

Rank and file liberals didn't ask for this; the useless DLC wing of the Democratic Party put the hit out on Dean. Ford is from that part of the party. Ford is a good foot soldier for the DLC. But when the DLC declares war and sends Ford on the attack, he needs to be politically destroyed post haste. You need to do a little more corollary work on who is the oppressor and who is the victim, on who is working for fascist ideals and who is working for the people. We do have the right to defend the first non-piece-of-shit in that position for a long time, you know.

Thanks for the history lesson.

[tx_dem41]

72. Should he be criticized? Of course.

"Politically destroyed"? Well, you just let the cat out of the bag, didn't you? How well have you planned this political destruction?

Who is currently running for the Democratic nomination for Senator in Tennessee besides Ford? What is their background? Most importantly, do they have any chance of winning statewide?

How popular is Ford amongst African-Americans in his heavily-minority district in Memphis? Who is running to replace him? If he were to become an outside agitator in that race, how would the African-Americans vote in that race? How much appeal does he have to African-Americans outside of his district? Outside of his state?

These are all questions that must be answered and analyzed rationally before a committing a "political destruction". Sadly, as Robespierre never learned, so will some DUers never learn.

Oh by the way, Robespierre eventually got his head chopped off by his own "Reign of Terror". Imagine the irony!

[Don Claybrook]

83. There's no cat to let out of the bag

This is all out in the open, and yes, I meant politically destroyed. It's fuckwits like Ford who spend all of their time strategizing about who will replace whom and where a power vaccuum needs filling and so on. Send him and his ilk packing; let them know we don't want anymore whore Democrats ever again. They'll get the message, and we won't be left to strategize anything beyond making sure we're represented truthfully and courageously.

And yes, I already told you once I was cognizant of Robespierre. There's no parallel.

[tx_dem41]

91. You're absolutely right. With that thinking, we "won't be left to ...

..strategize anything".

[Don Claybrook]

96. Thank you. Have a nice day.

.

[in_cog_ni_to]

39. He doesn't like it when we say bad things about Democrats.

We're suppose to be moderate and accept everything the assholes say. Now, staighten up your act! Get with the "moderate" program, would you please? ;)

[tx_dem41]

41. No. I don't like it when you don't know how to run a "revolution".

You have the lessons of history laid out before you. Yet, you refuse to learn them.

This has nothing to do with ideology.

[in_cog_ni_to]

45. Oh really? And where the hell is YOUR revolution?

Just askin'. :eyes: I can assume it's in the works, right? Let me know, I'll join ya when you're ready.

[tx_dem41]

52. Learn the lessons of the past.

Don't be part of a torch-wielding mob that runs around haphazardly burning down everything when someone says "Boo!"

Instead, plan, organize, and act rationally. Discern what your goal is and who you need on your side to help you attain it.

[Frederik]

57. The torch-wielding mob in this instance

is called the "DLC". That's the problem. They organize a witch-hunt as soon as someone criticizes their Republican and corporate friends in too unfriendly terms.

[tx_dem41]

64. That is what the Jacobins said about the Girondists.

"They" were the problem. So they wiped them out. And then, they turned on themselves because they had lost numbers and the good will of the people. They couldn't tell the difference between the Girondists and the Royalists. By the end, they couldn't even tell the difference between themselves and the Royalists.

And the Revolution failed.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

79. That's what the Maquis said about the Milice and Pierre Laval.

Nobody's calling for Ford's head. They're calling for him to be replaced by a Democrat.

[tx_dem41]

82. And, hopefully, unlike Robespierre....

it will be done rationally. I don't see a lot of discussion about that on this thread, though.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

87. Comparing the left to Robespierre and the Terror is rational?

Ford is a turncoat who should be ousted.

[tx_dem41]

94. Please, I am not comparing the Terror to the left.

I am comparing it to the mindset that is prevalent in this thread.

[Frederik]

81. But did the Girondists organize a concerted attack

on any Jacobin who dared speak negatively of Louis XVI and his court?

[tx_dem41]

90. The Girondists definitely had their differences with the true Jacobins...

...in the Jacobin club. Some quite ugly. The rational people (for as little time as they had left, sadly), realized that although they had these differences, they shared one overarching goal. But, then came the "Reign of Terror".

I have a question for you in return. Did the Northeastern wing of the Democratic party have major differences with the Progressive Midwestern wing and the conservative Southern wing in the 1930s. Did some Democrats even criticize and attack FDR knowing how it played at home? You bet they did. You know what? It was the heyday of the Democratic Party.

[Frederik]

103. That's a valid point

But I don't think giving the Republicans ammunition to attack Dean by wilfully misrepresenting what he said and asking him to tone it down, not come to Tennesse etc. is helping the Democratic Party nor helping Ford get reelected. It would have sufficed to say that he disagreed with Dean's comment.

[tx_dem41]

108. I agree that it doesn't help.

Can you help me out? I have googled for it, and I can't find a source where Ford said that he didn't want him to come to Tennessee. Not saying he didn't say it. I just want to see the quote.

[spanone]

112. Geez, you can qoute history all day long but can't find a current qoute?

Look it up.

[tx_dem41]

117. Ummm...since it happened about 4 hours ago (you knew that didn't...

you?...Hint: its in the OP)....it hasn't exactly hit the press yet. The one newspaper article that covers Ford's statements does not use this quote. It's quite possible he said it. I just want to read the quote.

[Frederik]

125. You're right, that's not exactly correct

This is what he said:

"I won't have him down so many times in Tennessee on the campaign trail with me"

So he said that he didn't want to have him campaigning with him in Tennesse, not that he didn't want Dean to come to Tennessee for other purposes. As long as he stays out of Ford's campaign.

[stickdog]

92. I'm SICK TO DEATH of chickenshit Dems attacking brave Dems for

telling the truth about Repukes.

Now .... are you with me or against me?

[tx_dem41]

95. It all depends on what your plan is, and the thought you've put ....

..behind it. Which has been my point throughout this thread.

[stickdog]

110. My plan is to support Dems who have the balls to stand up to Repukes

against assholes like Ford who willfully misquote them to cover their own chickenshit Demopublican asses.

This jerk had a perfect opportunity to frame the debate for Democrats and against Republicans in any manner he felt his constituency would support. Instead, he LIED about what Dean said as if he were some sort of human Republican attack ad. He's basically the equivalent of a trojan horse Republican, and he thinks he can conciliate his way into the Senate within a debate wholly framed by Republicans. But when the Repukes pull the same crap on him that he just pulled on Dean, he'll realize that his chickenshit betrayals of real Democrats at the Republican altar of theocracy earned him nothing in the eyes of Dems, Repukes OR moderates.

[in_cog_ni_to]

71. Now we're a torch wielding mob?

because we don't like members of our own party bad-mouthing other members of our party? You have a problem with "unity" or what?

Zell Miller

Joe Biden

Joe Lieberman

Harold Ford

ALL of them need to switch parties. With Democrats like them, who needs republicans? They are NOT helping our party.

Anyway, when is your revolution planned for? I'll be more than happy to pass the word around for you.

[tx_dem41]

76. Zell we can agree on.

Given his lame-duckness, there was not much to do but cringe.

I assume that by saying "with Democrats like them, who needs republicans", that you can't tell the difference between the voting records of said politicians and a Republicans.

To that I say, what exactly are your ideals?

Now, if you do your research and find someone to run against them in a primary who has as good if not better chance of winning in the general election? Go for it!

But, I would hope that you would never go the extent of actually not voting in a General Election that they were running in. I don't see how any Democrat could do that.

[Ms. Clio]

99. Oh, so crowning Reverend Moon is part of a "rational plan"

to attain a goal.

So was invading and occupying Iraq.

[tx_dem41]

100. Where have I said the "rational plan" was Ford's to exercise?

I'm talking about the plan of the rank-and-file Democrats.

[Ms. Clio]

105. And what is that "rational plan?" Not to protest when "prominent" Dems

who aren't even particularly credible publicly criticize the one guy who is standing up for us?

[tx_dem41]

113. So, who are you going to run in Tennessee?

I'm all ears. I'm not saying they don't exist, but it seems silly to destroy someone before you have that part planned out.

From my post #72...a list of questions that need to be answered:

"Who is currently running for the Democratic nomination for Senator in Tennessee besides Ford? What is their background? Most importantly, do they have any chance of winning statewide?

How popular is Ford amongst African-Americans in his heavily-minority district in Memphis? Who is running to replace him? If he were to become an outside agitator in that race, how would the African-Americans vote in that race? How much appeal does he have to African-Americans outside of his district? Outside of his state?

These are all questions that must be answered and analyzed rationally before committing a "political destruction". "

[Ms. Clio]

119. See, this is where your historical analogy goes way off track

Please find a post where I advocated the guy's political destruction?

Me, I just think he needs to wise up and button it up.

[tx_dem41]

120. I wasn't implying that you had said that.

Many others have. Sorry, if I seemed to imply that you were calling for that.

[Ms. Clio]

126. But are they really? I think most people are just saying "STFU!"

not, "Off with his head."

Although he certainly deserves to lose that seat to a real progressive, don't you think?

[tx_dem41]

128. If that's possible. n/t

[spanone]

54. Thanks, I hate to let my ignorance show but.......

[Lars39]

36. Ford is a DLC New Democrat.

Why the hell should we support him?

[tx_dem41]

40. And Brissot was a Girondist. Why should we not chop off his head?

n/t

[spanone]

44. As voters, our job is to distinguish who we will vote for, eh?

Not accusers, but observers and then reactors to our observations. I vote based on this Senators record. If he is voted out of office, it is the same as handing him his head.

[tx_dem41]

46. Yes, and handing his head to Napoleon...

or a Republican in modern terms.

[Lars39]

49. Continue to dilute the party with "Third Way" candidates

and there won't be a Democratic party.

[tx_dem41]

56. Again, learn your history.

The Democratic Party was at its strongest when it had "Third Way" and heck, even "Fourth Way" candidates.

Its amazing on a Democratic forum, how little people know of the history of their own party.

[spanone]

58. We should all be as enlightened as you think you are!

[tx_dem41]

69. I work hard at researching and learning.

And, keeping my mind open to new ideas. If we have any DUTY as a citizen of this country, that is it.

So, if you want me to feel ashamed for learning, feel free...I guess. I thought the Republicans were the "anti-intellectual" party, though? I sure hope I don't get into a debate with you on evolution vs. creationism one day.

[spanone]

74. Don't worry, 'we' have nothing to discuss.

[tx_dem41]

78. That's a shame. n/t

[spanone]

86. No shame, you have already presumed my opinions so

therefore there is nothing to discuss.

[Lars39]

73. "Third Way" came out of RW think tanks,

with the goal being to ultimately have 1 party, even though two parties are 'represented'.

[Frederik]

89. Exactly

it's an offshoot of the Thatcher revolution. The two steps of the Conservative revolution was to 1) move the conservatives further to the right, where they can espouse a more radical agenda (in effect not being Conservatives any more, but radical anti-labor class warriors), and 2) through well-groomed business-friendly centrists, move the left to occupy the center-right where the conservatives had previously been, the so-called Third Way. Thus, move the entire political discourse several notches to the right, ensuring that a "business-friendly" political atmosphere prevails no matter who gets elected.

[LSK]

65. and lets defend people who go on Imus and misquote/misunderstand Dean...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

75. And, the Petains are here to defend the Ancien Regime.

[tx_dem41]

85. If by the Ancien Regime, you mean the last 30 years....

yes, I wholeheartedly agree. Lots of Petains running amuck.

[Ms. Clio]

93. Hello, hello? Reverend Moon? Don't want to talk about that, I see

Not surprised.

[tx_dem41]

98. No. You mistake my point as a defense of Ford.

Hint: I said he should be criticized for what he has done. In fact, I have even stated that if a better candidate can be found to run against him, go for it! That candidate better be able to win the general election though.

So...sorry to disappoint you.

[Ms. Clio]

102. Sorry, guess I got sidetracked by the French Revolution

So what is your point, then? That we shouldn't criticize Dems who dump on Dean? What am I missing?

[tx_dem41]

109. I've stated that he (and others) should be criticized for it.

Dirty laundry should not be aired publicly.

My point on this thread is that any "political destruction" as many have called for on this thread, better be planned out so that it doesn't result in loss of particular seats. If one can find a better candidate that is viable in the general election, that's great. But, don't let irrational emotion take over that you suddenly can't discern who the entirety of the people are that you need to win with.

[Ms. Clio]

115. That's all well and good, and I even agree, to a point

I'm not calling for his head, I'm calling for him to shut up if he doesn't have anything nice to say about Dean. Because he also must understand the entirety of the people that he needs to win with.

[tx_dem41]

118. I believe that is exactly what HE understands. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

106. Then why your defense of the collaborator?

Rather than Brissot or Roland, Ford is much more like their fellow Girondist Dumouriez.

[tx_dem41]

111. Where have I defended Ford?

I've tried to make the point that if you are going to destroy someone, make sure it makes you a stronger party AFTER it takes place.

[Ms. Clio]

77. Your historical analogies are ludicrous

Was Harold Ford's participation in the crowning of Reverend Moon just part of the Third or Fourth Way, too?

[DancingBear]

33. Dear Mr. Ford

Since you seem to agree with Mr. Biden, I feel it only fair that you should also receive a copy of the letter I sent to him.

Watch your mailbox...

[salin]

35. Ford showed his opportunism when he, with few years of experience,

tried to run a counter campaign against Pelosi for Minority Leader. Running - well it showed his ambition and wasn't in and of itself the problem. However, iirc, his rhetoric was pretty sharp and wedgie (as in trying to create wedges within the house dems) - not a good thing when one needs unity once one elects the Leader.

He has said some decent things. He has voted the right way on some issues. But in terms of becoming any kind of real leader in the future - he lost my support. Seems like a rather light-weight opportunist to me.

[ldf]

43. do we have some sort of quota that must be met?

do we HAVE to promote minorities, JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE A MINORITY, no matter how often the show themselves as a dino?

it seems that in the long run they do more harm than good.

just askin'.

:shrug:

[spanone]

50. I don't care if Harold Jr. is purple. It is not about his race.

It is about his seeming ability to dance in the isle between being a dem and a rep. Dean has the balls to be different. That is what Kerry did not posess.

[Individualist]

48. Ford and all the other DLCers

who are aiding and abetting the PNAC cabal are destroying our party as well as our nation.

[Bake]

59. The lesson of Reagan

"Never speak ill of a fellow Republican."

Seems to have worked for them. I doubt we'll ever learn that lesson. And for the record, I disagree with Ford on Dean, Iraq, and other issues.

Why does it matter whether there's a (D) after his name? In calculating the MAJORITY, dumbasses!

Bake

[spanone]

67. That's the real difference in our parties, We are willing to debate.

I won't be in a party that has no discourse within it.

[FLPolitico]

66. and Harold thinks by posturing like this increases his chance of

winning the Senate race in TN next year. LOL
Mr. Ford you have a snowball's chance in hell of becoming the next Senator from TN unless you change your party affiliation and become another Zell Miller.

[UdoKier]

84. He is a smug bastard

A handsome man, but notice the dead, soulless eyes. This guy gives me the creeps.

[stickdog]

97. I'm SICK TO DEATH of chickenshit Dems attacking brave Dems for

telling the truth about Repukes.

STFU, you asshats!

[kentuck]

101. My take on Harold Ford...

Grew up as a political child during the Reagan years and is not aware of Democratic traditions, believes the yellow line in the middle of the road is the best place to travel, along with all the dead skunks...

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

104. "Grew up as a political child" in a CORRUPT TENN. political family.

The Ford family political dynasty in Tennessee is rife with political wrongdoing, kickbacks, and general scumbag behavior. Harold's just the most recent shitbag from this questionable dynasty.

JB

[Catherine Vincent]

114. This ass doesn't own the state of Tennessee.

Who in the hell does he think he is? Senator Byrd!?

:-)

[Tinoire]

116. You have to understand people like George Bush. He's a nice guy!

"You have to understand people like George Bush. He's a nice guy. We need to learn from him. Remember what Bill Clinton did: He figured out what Republicans were doing well, and instead of complaining about it, he figured out a way to do it better." – Rep. Harold Ford, Jr. (D-TN)
===

"This president, who sometimes is right and other times is not, deserves to be supported when he's right," Ford said when he announced his candidacy for House minority leader. He urged Democrats "not just to be obstructionists or to engage in gridlock, which is what I hear a lot in what Nancy is saying."

www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ mi_m1282/is_23_54/ai_94960965

Ah such a friend to Bush! It's no wonder Bush gave him a covetted to come support him on SS and seated him in the third row where he WARMLY welcomed him :puke:

Tennessee Republican luminaries grumbled that they couldn’t get enough tickets to Memphis’s Cannon Center for the Performing Arts, last Friday’s stop on George Bush’s Social Security privatization tour. Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn, a GOP U.S. Senate hopeful whose district includes parts of suburban Memphis, failed to appear at her president’s show, claiming she missed her flight out of Washington. However, it is widely assumed Blackburn didn’t want to be hectored by Bush to get off the fence on private Social Security accounts.

Rep. Harold Ford, Jr., who may face Blackburn in the race for Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist’s seat in 2006, had no problem with tickets – the White House personally invited the 34-year-old lawmaker and gave him 100 of the prized pieces of paper. From the stage, Bush warmly welcomed Ford, seated in the third row of the auditorium.

http://www.blackcommentator.com/130/130_cover_ford.html

And he keeps such FINE company! Birds of a feather flocking together need to go down together.

This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.

(snip)

The threat from Iraq is real, and it cannot be permanently contained. For as long as Saddam Hussein is in power in Baghdad, he will seek to acquire weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them. We have no doubt that thesedeadly weapons are intended for use against the United States and its allies. Consequently, we believe we must directly confront Saddam, sooner rather than later. Without allies on the ground inside Iraq, we will be handicapping our own efforts. Each day that passes costs us an opportunity to unite and professionalize the Iraqi opposition, thus ensuring it will be less capable when the conflict begins.

We look forward to working with you on this most important matter.

Sincerely,


John McCain
U.S. Senator

Joseph Lieberman
U.S. Senator

Jesse Helms
U.S. Senator

Richard Shelby
U.S. Senator

Bob Graham
U.S. Senator

Henry Hyde
Member of Congress

Harold Ford, Jr.
Member of Congress

Tom Lantos
Member of Congress

http://www.house.gov/ford/12_06_01a.htm

[bling bling]

122. Very telling info you provided, there.

No wonder Ford thinks Bush is such a nice guy. He's got a nice snug comfy space right in Bush's pocket, that's why.

[Pithy Cherub]

124. Spent my time not telling Ford to shut up, but

redirecting funds to his opposition. Lot's of family in Memphis, lots of FedEx workers - having much fun! I want his constituents to call him and deliver the message! :evilgrin: They like Dean, a lot!

Also, some notes to the DNC regarding funding all Dems in primary races not to focus exclusively on incumbents. My intuitive guess is Ford would like some of the DNC's new found wealth. ;)

maybe Ford will learn that the PEOPLE are in charge not him. and he isn't elected to anything nationally to speak for anyone on a national basis, just his constituents in TN who are my family & friends...:evilgrin:

[wndycty]

131. You might consider

I'm not sure of its accuracy however if there is any truth to this you may reconsider backing her over Ford, talk about biting your nose off to spite your face. Lets stop the knee jerk politics

Rosalind Kurita
Kurita's positions on major issues have been accurately described by a previous post. However, these are reasons for Democracy for Tennessee NOT to support her bid for the U.S. Senate. She makes Harold Ford, Jr. look very progressive. Any review of Kurita's print ads or her television commercials in this most recent election would make it clear that she's no progressive. She generally employed a "guns, God, and gays" strategy to win re-election to the state Senate. In the South, many Democrats feel the need to take conservative positions on social issues, but if you're a "real" Democrat, you don't lead with those issues! But that's what she did. She's an extremely ambitious opportunist. She's also a very hard-hitting, some would say vicious, campaigner who definitely believes in using opposition research and running negative ads.

http://democracyfortennessee.smartcampaigns.com/index.php?q=node/view/142

[tx_dem41]

132. Thanks for the info, wndycty. n/t

[Pithy Cherub]

139. Ford has helped make Dean a political rock star.

To send a message that Ford is not in charge of a monolithic community he needs to understand others have a voice DIFFERENT than his. He's entitled to his opinion and chose to use the media to lash out at Dean.

I am entitled to go directly to his constituents and share mine. I also can send along helpful donation info that does not have Ford's name on it...It would be galling for Ford to have to ask Dean for some cash after those comments wouldn't it? There are MANY places to send the money that don't go to Ford. (As a huge Clark supporter, WesPAC can feel some love too.)Ford has some earning of credibility to do and would STRONGLY suggest he do that rather than focusing on Dean.

Could Dean have said the truth in a myriad of ways, yep. Could Harold Ford have delivered his message quietly - yep. Now Dean is going to fundraise like there is no tomorrow...making Dean even more of a big fundraising & media draw.

Ford's opponent(s) should bear the same level of scrutiny as Ford. Ford's support of Bankruptcy Bill, pal of Bush's, social security, supporter of the War - not going over well in the AA community.

[tnlefty]

141. Why did you only pull the negative comment made about her

from that page? There are many positive ones on the same page as well.

[depakid]

134. If the primary challenge is unsuccessful- consider

voting Republican.

That's what I'm doing with my DINO, David Wu. He's sold us out one too many times.

These folks hurt the party far more than any Republican does- and until they start to face consequences for their actions, the Dems will remain irrelevant.

[wndycty]

138. Even if means recapturing control of the senate?

:kick:

[depakid]

140. Maybe- it's long term thing

However, so long as these types continue to dominate the party and drive the discourse, control of the Senate isn't likely to be at issue....

The party is hopelessly mired with a sell out loser mentality- ordinary people see that- and that's why many won't vote Democratic any more- even though it might be in their best interest.

If there's no Green running in my district- then I'll vote republican for the first time in my life. If more people did that- this bullshit wouldn't be going on. My particular asshole voted for the Medicare Bill and the bankruptcy bill (and has done a number of other smarmy things as well). He won't get my vote ever again- and I'm not the only one who feels that way....

[mandyky]

136. Is he the State Chair for TN?

If not, Dean doesn't need his permission.