Which Dean supporters want to leave DU if the bashing continues?

[liberalnurse]

I'm ready to just take a long vacation from DU ...Let the bashers take over the camp for awhile. If we are not here, they have no one to trash. Hell we can get this in Freeper World.....

[tjdee]

1. Yes, Dean is the only one who gets bashed.

Dean supporters are the majority of posters here--why on earth would they leave?

Don't you have an ignore function?

[liberalnurse]

5. Yes, you know I have an ignore function.

I think if we left then they, the Dean bashers would then have to just feed some where else. There are just too many to put on ignore. They are dedicated to a mission, just like Gephardt..his Anti-Dean web site..to trash Dean 24/7.

DU is contaminated by such behavior.

[PurityOfEssence]

58. It's a real chicken-or-the-egg issue

I'm a partisan, sure, but even from that vantage, I'd have to say that the only partisans worse than the Deanies are the extremist Clark-barkers. On the whole, though, the percentage of flamers among Clark supporters seems less (although more intense) than among Dean supporters. Dean himself is the biggest accuser of the others, too, so it's a consistent tone and tactic if you're watching it from the outside.

At least the chicken-or-the-egg issue has an answer; this one's too subjective. If I was more detached, it would be amusing to hear Deanies cry "foul". It's almost like a religion. "Proof be damned, and how DARE you question the one true way?" Somehow certain partisans feel released from manners and comportment because the rest of the field is a bunch of inferiors, philistines and Bush-toadies; that they're mystified and hurt by the backlash fits the profile of the "true believer". Deanies need to mind their manners themselves (or at least admit the dynamic of responses caused by their MANY allies who don't) and not grant themselves absolution from the infidels

I think your basic frustration comes from a misguided contention that everyone's being "mean to Dean", when he was the first to escalate it to this degree and he continues on that tack. This will all get rough, and that's not necessarily bad. Fairness and the decency of coexistence should be maintained, but we learn a lot about people at times like this.

In the main, Dean and his supporters bash more than they get bashed, and seem to have been the ones who largely started it. Maybe you don't agree, but you'll find many who agree with my contention, and we can't ALL be wrong. (We just haven't found the faith...)

[gully]

2. I've thought about it. Until aftter the primaries.

:shrug: I realize he isn't the only one who gets bashed, but the bashing occurs on a more regular and venomous basis. I am really tired of the Dem bashing period.

[Brian Sweat]

32. Not really,

As a Dean supporter, you tend to read thread related to Dean. This is where the Dean bashing takes place. As a Clark supporter, I tend to read threads related to Clark and this is where the Clark bashing go on. I see a lot more Clark bashing than Dean bashing. You see a lot more Dean bashing than Clark bashing. In truth, it is probably equal.

[NicoleM]

3. politics is not for the sensitive

I think a lot of it is just silly, but it doesn't hurt my feelings or anything. Some people like their guy more than my guy. Oh, well. I just don't read those threads.

[Vis Numar]

115. I'm still here

but I avoid the politics section.

[LynneSin]

4. Please - they can freaking leave if they don't like Dean

Sorry, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but the Dean Bashers would love nothing more than to chase us out of DU. Pretty much on the same level as the excitement the Bush Regime would feel if they could chase all us progressive thinkers out of the country.

I've been here since May of 2001. I don't know one person who was here before me that has been on the boards bashing Dean or any other candidate. I have also met all 3 of the owners and they would never ever do anything to chase Dean or any of the other candidate supporters away.

I have incredible respect for Skinner, EarlG and Elad and I would thik it to be insultive to leave simply because a few assholes get on this board and start Dean bashing threads because they get the thrill of response (and 99% of the time those Dean bashers don't even have real support behind their bashing).

They can leave if they don't like the fact that there are Dean supporters here. I'm a lifetime member of DU and I wear my badge with pride!!! And btw ANYONE and I do mean ANYONE who can't stand the heat of some of these political discussions and who's skin isn't thick enough to overcome these stupid bashing threads - can leave too!

[liberalnurse]

10. I respect DU but if we are bait....

it just isn't good. I feel like I'm in freeperville sometimes.

[LynneSin]

You're only bait if you allow them to get under your skin

Hey - its your choice, but I'll be sorely disappointed in anyone who leaves for a lame excuse of "Can't take the (Fill in the blank with your favorite candidate) bashing"

ANd here's a silly notion - I have NO ONE on ignore. I either skip over their thread or better yet - go in there and trounce them. And what amuses me on these bashing threads - I'm with the majority.

[Hawkeye-X]

31. Exactly!

If you see a thread you think may bash Dean or even other candidates, just don't click on it. The poster wants a reaction, and if we click on the thread and give that reaction, we're just feeding the frenzy!

And 90% of the time -- you can tell which one would be a Dean bashing thread.

Just wear your Nomex flame-retardant clothing and enter at your own risk:



Hawkeye-X

[liberalhistorian]

14. EXACTLY!

Very well put, LynneSin. Politics is not for the sensitive or the thin-skinned and, in order to be effective supporters of and cheerleaders for a candidate, we have to be able to deal calmly and reasonably with that candidate's detractors as well as legitimate criticism concerning the candidate.

BTW-lucky you, meeting the owners! I've always been curious as to what they were like.

[Fabio]

24. I smell hypocrisy

[liberalnurse]

37. Excuse me, but a fox smells his own hole.

Now let me process like an adult please.

[gate of the sun]

65. is questioning the stance of a candidate on issues

considered bashing? Are we to say nothing? I really want to know what constitutes bashing? At least according to the people who are upset. Then I want to know from the people who are not upset what they believe is bashing? Is saying Kucinich has bad hair and is ugly is that bashing? To say you don't agree with Dean's stand on Nafta and why bashing? Please enlighten me?

[Kahuna]

6. What? "Dean-bashing? Where?

I haven't seen it. Maybe because I've been too busy contending with the Clark bashing.

[LynneSin]

9. There you go - you can rally up all the Clark supporters and leave too

:eyes:

This is our home - no one is going to bother chasing us out!

[liberalnurse]

13. See, intrusive behavior, no respect for a fellow

democrat. Even when one speaks from the heart, feeling beaten.....

They just kick ya one more time.....

[Kahuna]

38. What was intrusive? I said not one thing about Dean..

and you're coughing hairballs at me. Whew! Get a grip ladies.

[bearfartinthewoods]

40. feeling beaten??

is that what this is about? your guy is no longer numero uno so you want to take your buttons and go home?

[liberalnurse]

50. No....that is far from the point.....

The polls are insignificant. Its the abusive behavior so called fellow democrats render upon the other, flame bait posts. Initiating come-on call-outs to rumble. Intrusive snide remarks which trigger a reaction.

[bearfartinthewoods]

52. i'm an Edwards supporter

i'd give my left nut to have Dean's numbers and your problems.

we are just ignored. he is just ignored. be grateful your guy is doing well enough to bash.

[sandnsea]

56. Damned ambulance chaser

With his phony hair and his phony teeth and I bet he even takes southern talking lessons. And did you know his father was a REPUBLICAN!!!! And he eats grits, eeeewww!!

There, feel better?

[bearfartinthewoods]

102. thanks...i needed that

2 points in rebutal
if his daddy was a repub, at leastt he was a repub MILL WORKER.

and grits are gooooood, so says this northerner!

[Pepperbelly]

33. Gee ... I've ...

been here a loooong time too but I have no intention of being run off because I suppor Clark. Remember, it was YOUR people who started this rather hand-me-another-nail-up-here-on-the-cross thread, wanting to leave because they cannot stand the heat.

If you really want to know the truth about bashing, go count the threads bashing who since Clark announced and I think you will be amazed.

[Kahuna]

36. What is your problem?

Don't tell me there's no such thing as deanie-babies! Sheesh!

Did I say anything against Dean? Answer. No! I did not! So why are you busting wild on me? You need to get a grip. Your anger is misplaced. Still, I can't say that I have seen a great deal of Dean bashing.

Maybe you can provide some examples instead of busting a gasket.

[liberalhistorian]

16. LOL!

They did manage to swoop down pretty quickly after Clark's announcement, didn't they?

[AWD]

7. Want to??

Want to leave?

Me.

Will I leave?

Hell, no.

I plan to make people like the pseudo-Dem miserable as he watches my candidate win.

[legin]

8. Hang in there liberalnurse

Speaking for myself, I have been semi-booted off once before, and i have no intention of being booted off again.

:evilgrin:

[liberalhistorian]

11. I think you're being just a tad bit too sensitive.

I agree that the bashing threads are terrible, but I also think we Dean supporters can be a bit hypersensitive, which only further irritates other DUers. We've got to respect the fact that not everyone supports Dean, that there are other Dem candidates DUers support and that, just because someone supports Kerry or Edwards or Graham or Gephardt or Kucinich, etc., instead of Dean, does NOT mean they're a bad person.

And sometimes someone posts a thread with legitimate criticism of Dean that has to be dealt with if we're going to be effective cheerleaders for him. We have to learn how to defend him without getting hypersensitive and immediately angry, which only turns people off.

If you see a thread you think may bash Dean, just don't click on it. The poster wants a reaction, and if we click on the thread and give that reaction, we're just feeding the frenzy!

[liberalnurse]

19. I've tried working on that.....

it has been a struggle. I'm just looking for an answer to an abusive situation. That is what it always turns into.... Then I ask myself, is this a legitimate fight or a no win situation where the bully's just never stop? I don't want to feed them.

I'm going to think about it for a long while....

[JNelson6563]

12. not me

But there are many threads in GD that I don't even bother to open. I am curious to see how things play out after the primary.

Besides, this has been a very revealing experience. There are some who I have learned a lot more about that I likely wouldn't have if not for this process. I've known some disappointments and some pleasant surprises. It's like an interesting case study.

Julie

[salin]

15. It is not just Dean bashing

there has been some really ugly Kerry bashing, Clark bashing... and the all time favorite sport Lieberman bashing.

These all go far past critique of policy or campaign. And post lies, distortions, paranoia, etc.

It is ugly and pathetic.

Hate to say it - but a few dean supporters initiate this kind of behavior against other candidates. As do a few Kerry supporters, Kucinich supporters and Clark supporters, oh and a lone Edwards supporter.

Not productive at all.

[liberalhistorian]

18. Oh, but it's so much FUN to bash Holy Joe

Lieberman, he's such a repuke lite that he's shooting his own foot with Dems!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. The board has been hit by an IDIOT stick

Call a paramedic

[Nlighten1]

17. I support Dean but I'm not leaving...

I just ignore the bashers. I don't put them on ignore, mind you, I just ignore them.

[liberalnurse]

22. I hope to be able to gain the intestinal

fortitude. They know what they do......They are nothing more that gangs.

[OKNancy]

34. I don't ignore bashers

I try to counter-argue and look up a link to back it up, or I try to use humor. I shut up seventhson about the Haitians heehee.

[gully]

20. Ok, I'm stayin... F-em! Ignore it is...

:D Liberalnurse, you in?

[liberalnurse]

26. All of your support has been

encouraging. I love DU as it is my pulse on the political front. I'll try a little harder.....

Thank you all for the positive feedback. It helps to process the negatives and see how others cope. At least I know you are all there at my back door. :)

[whirlygigspin]

21. Bash back

I'm not going to be a sheep. Fuck that noise. Sorry if I'm
being vulgar but that's how I feel.

I resent deeply being called a cool-aid drinker from people
who support a candidate that has no positions on anything,
didn't know he was a democrat until two weeks ago and
apparently wants to be appointed king cause Hillary says so.
but damn, ain't he hansome in his whity white ass uniform!

And if you think your going to get anywhere in a general
election with being nice and polite to the Bushistas, well
I'll hand you the freakin cool aid myself.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrr! (i feel better now)

[whirlygigspin]

28. to answer your question

how about having a bash alert fest?

click alert on every bash thread?

I don't know, it might work?

[legin]

29. exellent post whirlygigspin

n/t

[piece sine]

42. what's a "whity white-ass uniform?"

Is is something an Afrop-American can also wear? Or just the frigid ice people with no souls.

Meanwhile, this is an admittedly argumentative forum dealing with TEN.. count 'em....TEN nationally known Democrats running for the Presidency. There's bound to be harsh disagreements UNTIL the convention in Boston. How could there not be? Now, on top of the outside censorship DU imposes on wingers, your thread-starter seems to suggest that DU monitors ALSO start editing comments against your candidate. What would remain? Vapid platitudes that offend absolutely no one? So far I support Dean but I hardly find those who directly challenge him here to be an affront to my sensibilities. Quite the opposite -- I read things and I THINK IT OVER...sometimes I change my mind, most often I don't. No biggie...I' m comfortable in my own contrarian skin.

Have progressives grown so delicate and so fragile that they can no sanction open debate?! I thought Lefties were all about inclusion and openness. My, how things have changed!

[Pepperbelly]

44. what is amazing is that in ...

a thread where a Dean supporter is upset at her candidate being bashed, you tune up with a post filled with nothing else, also including as much mendacity and innuendo as the best Limbaugh has to offer.

:eyes: Whatever.

[WoodrowFan]

105. I've seen

Just yesterday on a thread I saw a Dean supporter who compains about Dean-bashing have their post pulled for being rude, then turn around and complain the rest of us are rude to them! It seems like the ones who do the most bashing of other candidates complain the most about others bashing THEIR candidate. (The exception being certain tin foil hats who think they are ALL part of a conspiracy or war criminals or members of skull and bones or whatever. :eyes:

Hey, I LIKE Dean, I just happen to like Clark MORE. I'll vote for whoever gets the nomination.


Clark/Dean in 2004! (in that order)

[WesWing2004]

61. that's great...

with an attitude like that we will enjoy another four years of President Pixie Wings!

Come one people, hang together, or hang like a chad...

I am happy for BOTH candidates.

PS. Don't like purple kool-aid, now cherry on the other hand

[oasis]

25. DU is a fountain of information. Ammunition for 2004. Skip the ugly stuff.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

27. Dean seems well received at Free Republic

they think he's raw meat for Bush in the general. So maybe you could try life there if it's too big of a bash here at DU.

[liberalnurse]

30. Excuse me, I just don't recognize any logic with

what you said. :wtf:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

45. They want us to nominate Dean so we lose

that's the reading I get from the right. There's a thread there today on how he is anti-Christian.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/987045/posts

[Cha]

54. And ;you believe them? You give them credit for being smart

enough to know wass up? :wtf:

[JNelson6563]

98. no kidding

This past weekend I posted from an article about a GOP gathering here in Mich. The AG, Cox, is shitting his shorts at the thought of Dean. Using it to terrify his soldiers.

It saddens me to see supposed seasoned veterans falling for this 5yr. old "psychology".

Julie

[gully]

48. Don't worry, that's because there wasn't any...

;) Another one to add to the ignore list perhaps?

[RogueTrooper]

41. That is a little on the rank side, dude

don't you think? :eyes:

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gully]

43. I heard Faux news say Dean is the most feared of all the Democrats..

by the Bush* administration.

Perhaps the freepers aren't up on current events? Oh, that's right, par for the course.

They'll have to tune in tonight and get the low down.

I don't generally consider faux credible, but I think they know the Bushies*.

[zeemike]

35. I am not going to let anyone run me off

In the words of the selected commander in thief, “Bring them on”.

[RogueTrooper]

39. No, DU means too much to me.

No, DU means too much to me.

I first came to DU about May 2001 and, at times, it has been a pretty rough ride. But, over the piece, it is still the best place on the web and it is still the first, and last place I visit when I go online. Even when the bat is up. :evilgrin:

But I know what you mean. These last couple of months have been pretty rough for your average candidate supporter. It is the endless repetition of the same attacks, by the same people that tires me. But what can you do?

The attacks, unfortunately, will continue, and, most probably, get worse. If a campaign attacks another campaign we will see it on DU. Activists, doing their campaign's bidding will take the attack to DU. They will do so either to wind up another campaign's activists or to try and convince undecideds that such-and-such a candidate is next to Bush in Satan's affections. Campaigns come to DU to test out people's “response” to their message and their argument.

This was always going to be a difficult time for DU but it will get better. Once we win :evilgrin:

[liberalnurse]

46. I'm leaving for work now....

I'll check back at the thread there to gather more positive feedback...It really helps....and its healthy too!

[LuminousX]

47. I sort of have already

Not left. I can't leave, I'm addicted. I love the people here too much. But my participation has waned. It will wax again once we are closer to the primaries. I just can't abide by the deep rooted hatred of our candidates.

Our top tier candidates are not baby rapists, are not psychotic axe murderers. They all have a long history of community service.

[WillyT]

59. Right On LuminousX !!!

'Our top tier candidates are not baby rapists, are not psychotic axe murderers. They all have a long history of community service.'

How some of the more rabid bashers here delude themselves into thinking they are serving our community is WAY beyond me!!!

:nuke::shrug::nuke:

Self-immolation anyone???

[disgruntella]

51. I'm not a Dean supporter, but I'm leaving.

I feel that I have spent 75% of my time at DU defending Democratic candidates against bashing - 25% of said bashing being straight from the rightwing playbook. It's a complete fucking farce. I come to DU to read headlines from Fox, Drudge and Newsmax smearing Dems? What a bunch of BULLSHIT.

Yet my bullshit detector is uncontrollably attracted to the candidate bashing threads. The only solution I have come up with is to post with the explicit purpose of being banned from DU.

So here goes: All of you negative vibe merchants on GD can suck the shit out of my dead grandfather's asshole. With a straw. And enjoy the four more years of Bush you so desperately deserve.

[CMT]

53. No Stay

we need you. Just ignore them.

[Cha]

55. We Dean Supporters just need to circle the wagons and

defend our candidate...Dean is worth it!!

And yes I know the other candidates get bashed, too!

DU is the Best! Just have to "cherry pick it"! :D

:hi: LN!

[Fatima]

57. I left and came back. SSDD (Same Sh*t Different Day)

with the DU mudslinging, and it's not just about Dean, it's about a number of candidates. A sad commentary.

And there is bickering with my local Dean support group. Bitching about the listserv, of all things...no more than two emails per day and yet people are bitching...and whining...

It's all Dean stuff, petitioning events, meetings, etc. Have people not heard of a "delete" button? I subscribe to the state listserv as well, and I don't bitch about mail pertaining to events 150 miles away...I DELETE THEM!

People, I can say one thing about Repugs that we should aspire to...and that is a certain level of tolerance for one another. In other words, they are better at organizing, and they are more willing to overlook the small crap in order to get ahead. Yes, they also resort to dirty pool, which we must studiously avoid. But I fear that the bickering and cheap-shot artistry will drive those on the fence away and even embitter old salts. So let's be a little more tolerant of one another's idiosyncracies and have some respect for one another's choices. It's not like most of us will vote for Chimpy Mc Smirk if our choice of Dem doesn't get the nod, is it?

[Evanstondem]

68. Agree with your plea for tolerance

I'm sorry to hear about the bickering in your Dean group. They're not all like that, mine has great action-oriented volunteer leadership and I've only met one person who rubbed me the wrong way.

[Democat]

60. Dean supporters bash Clark here every day

I wouldn't care if all the Clark and Dean bashers left.

[janekat]

62. I've been bashed about Kerry, Gore & Clark so join the club n/t

[unfrigginreal]

63. C'mon tough dude!

We can't just give up because the elites want us to!

We've got the best candidate, with the best ideas, and the most support to BEAT BUSH. Hang in there!

[bitchkitty]

64. It's not the bashing -

I'm a big girl, I can take that. What's getting to me is the Clark supporters - who are supporting a man who said that if Karl Rove had returned his calls, he would be a Republican. It's sick.

[Julien Sorel]

66. It's not the bashing! It's the democracy!

[bitchkitty]

67. puhleeze.

Because I don't want a pseudo-dem, I'm against democracy?

If by chance Clark does get the nomination, I'll vote for him against Bush, but I would vote for almost anybody against Bush. At least I'll know what I'm doing, and who I'm voting for. Some Clark supporters don't seem to give a shit that their candidate "would have been a Republican if Karl Rove had returned his phone calls".

[JVS]

69. Death of the party

[bitchkitty]

71. That's how I see it,

if Clark gets in.

[JVS]

72. yup

[Julien Sorel]

74. You'd vote for the death of the party?

The life of the party, sure, but the death of the party?

[bitchkitty]

75. I'd vote for Idi Amin before I would

vote for Bush.

[Pepperbelly]

78. isn't he dead or something?

:D

[bitchkitty]

82. Probably. I'd still vote for him over Bush, dead or not. n/t

[no name no slogan]

90. Yeah, he'd probably do a better job, too (n/t)

[Julien Sorel]

70. Your words:

What's getting to me is the Clark supporters - who are supporting a man who said that if Karl Rove had returned his calls, he would be a Republican. It's sick.

People have their own criteria. Respecting that fact is one of the things living in a democracy is about. That statement doesn't exactly reek of respect.

[bitchkitty]

76. You're reaching -

if you think that repeating something Clark said is disrespect. You don't try to explain it or justify it (good thing too, since you can't) but you'll attack me and say I'm disrespectful. Yes, I have issues with Clark, and it bothers the hell out of me that some people support him blindly and ignore some very disturbing things about him.

Clark: "I would have been a Republican if Karl Rove had returned my phone calls".

Y'know, that's going to be my new sig line.

[Julien Sorel]

77. It's actually been demonstrated to be a probable fraud,

but hey, it's your sig line; I have no control over it.

The disrespect you expressed wasn't for Clark; it was for the right of his supporters to decide what they view as important in a candidate.

Hope your new sig line makes you feel better about things.

[Pepperbelly]

79. ideology can really put a damper on a sense of humor.

It's like someone excised it from some of these folk.

[bitchkitty]

84. I have a sense of humor -

but I would have no more tolerance for Clark joking and being lighthearted about his Republican leanings than I do for Bush joking about winning the trifecta. If it was a joke, it's just not funny.

[Pepperbelly]

92. well ... we have a different sense of humor I guess ..

cause I thought it was kinda funny. Not like gut busting, hold-your-sides or anything but kinda funny.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

99. Glad To See You Swallow the RW Talking Points So Easily

So much for critical thinking. It's just so much easier to believe the worst of people you are already prejudiced against.

DTH

[bitchkitty]

112. Talking point?

I wasn't aware that his statement was a talking point. I read the article posted, it was interesting, and I also thanked the poster for not getting in a snit. Sorry I can't thank you.

What about his blank "The Issues" page on his site? Maybe you could fill me in on that too.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

121. It Is Crystal Clear That You Are Unaware

I wasn't aware that his statement was a talking point.

That's exactly right, you're not aware. You're obviously ignorant of the fact that this supposed "statement" is nothing more than an effort to split the base by two RW Thugs who have every incentive to do exactly what they did.

You took the bait, hook, line and sinker.

DTH

[bitchkitty]

131. So instead of enlightening

me, you choose to imply that I'm some sort of dumb-ass? Sorry, I'm not going to reciprocate with a rude statement of my own, you'll have to find someone else to play that game.

When is Clark going to comment on this? I'd like to know straight from the horse's mouth - did he say it or didn't he?

[bitchkitty]

83. It's actually been demonstrated to be a probable fraud

Where? When? Please enlighten me. Like I said, it really, REALLY bothers me that he said that.

[iambe]

85. Here is an explanation

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

[bitchkitty]

87. Thank you -

I appreciate that you merely provided a link, and did not leap all over me in righteous indignation.

Maybe you can enlighten me as to where Clark stands on certain issues? That section of his site is still under construction.

[iambe]

89. Yes, that isn't good

Are there certain issues you want to know about? There just isn't detailed information on the web at this point, unfortunately. What I have heard in bits and pieces sounds on the liberal side. Personally I am waiting for the next debate.

[bitchkitty]

96. Doesn't it seem odd

that he still hasn't taken any stands on the issues? It gives me the impression that he doesn't think he has to bother.

[WoodrowFan]

109. There's a differenceq

Between not taking a stand and not having your web guy finish the page on your site...

http://draftwesleyclark.com/on_the_issues.htm

[bitchkitty]

113. Look,

that's bullshit. It's not a big complicated process to put content on a web site, I've been doing it for 5 years and I know.

Thanks for the link though.

[WoodrowFan]

119. I have too

I run two sites. It's not hard, UNLESS you want it to look professional. Then it takes some time and effort.

YW for the link

[bitchkitty]

124. Oh, please -

stop it. The site is built. The hardest part is over, all he has to do is add content to that very important page.

[TLM]

126. How professional does it look to have an under construction issues page

on the site for your run for PRESIDENT!

If there was ever a time you would want to make sure you have your shit together... this is it.

[JVS]

128. They wanted to draft him for so long, but couldn't prepare for this?

right. This looks like intentional vagueness.

[WoodrowFan]

129. Sheesh

Looks more like a new candidate's page to me. Besides, the Draft Clark pages have his positions on them already. What's vague about THAT? Oh I see now, he HIDE them by putting them on his supporter's pages while his is being built. :eyes:

BTW, how quickly did Dean have his positions on his official webpage? All of them within the first week? It would surprise me if he did (and I LIKE Dean) This is just another grasping of straws to bash a candidate you don't like, sort of like the rw bashing of Dean for his Trent Lott comment (which I thought was ok, BTW)

[JVS]

134. The problem is

that none of the Draft Clark boards were actually affiliated directly with Clark, so anything said on them was merely hearsay. Now that Clark is a candidate his views on the issues should be placed out there in a way that leaves no uncertainty about the webpage's authenticity. The fact that he entered recently is irrelevant. What is important is that the elections are a few months away and it is important that this information is made public soon.

[WoodrowFan]

108. Try This One

since hius site is still being built..

http://draftwesleyclark.com/on_the_issues.htm

[einsteins stein]

95. Probable Fraud? That's Good News! You do have a link, right??

Because a link to that debunking would be very helpful!

[einsteins stein]

116. still waitin' for that link :-)

and waiting, and waiting, and waiting....

[Julien Sorel]

122. The bus passed you by, sport, and you never got off the

bench to catch it. The link has already been posted in this thread.

[WoodrowFan]

123. The link was posted in a reply to ANOTHER Note

so here it is..

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

An interesting paragraph..

Unfortunately for Clark, the White House has logged every incoming phone call since the beginning of the Bush administration in January 2001. At the request of THE DAILY STANDARD, White House staffers went through the logs to check whether Clark had ever called White House political adviser Karl Rove. The general hadn't. What's more, Rove says he doesn't remember ever talking to Clark, either.

[gully]

114. What about the fact that he voted for Reagan, is that true?

:shrug: or just another rumor?

[TLM]

125. Was it also a fraud that he voted repuke until he was 44?

THis guy is supposed to be this great liberal progressive hope, but until recently the guy was voting for republicans and now I'm supposed to buy that he's the very model of a progressive democrat because a few times in the last month or two he has said the right buzz words in interviews? I really don't trust him.

[unfrigginreal]

80. Democracy assumes the peoples will...

not the brainwashed publics will.

If you want true Democracy than you have to insist on equal time for opposing arguments in the mainstream press. We have NEVER had that.
What most folks on this board want is to keep the power with the establishment candidates...why? Who knows. They seem to believe that they know what's best for everyone, and don't need to hear from the public at large. Condescending is a word that they wear well.

[Terwilliger]

88. yeah, until Nader runs

lets see your devotion to democracy then

[stickdog]

101. Exhibit A

sound & fury

[Maddy McCall]

91. A LIE that was spread by right-wing Bush operatives...

but, hey, if you want to continue spreading that bullshit, that's your prerogative.

[rman]

103. is this also a lie:

People here on DU were promoting Clark long before he had announced himself as candidate while it wasn't clear whether he'd run as Dem or Repub and while his stance on issues was unknown. All we'd get from the supporters is "he's a 4 star general, he can beat Bush".
While all of Du was highly suspicious of any candidate, out of nowhere comes a bunch of new folks promoting a candidate no-one knew anything about (politically) except that the man is a well known general. Some of these people would start using ever more RW arguments when there'd be another influx of freepers and disruptors on DU, to the point where at least one of them ("voteclark") was banned.

By now we'r hearing something about Clark's stance on issues; ie "look at the current healthcare system and take it foreward".
Well surely "taking it foreward" sounds better then "taking it backward" but it lacks any content; he doesn't say anything on the matter one can form an opinion about.

And this is the candidate supported by Democratic "left-of-center" Underground? I mean, if this continues then maybe DU should consider dropping the "U" from its name.

[Ellen Forradalom]

73. Not me

I don't read those threads. Does wonders for my mental health.

[FubarFly]

81. What, and miss the great purge?

Dem bashing is okay until we have a candidate and then after that it is off-limits at DU. At which point, behaviour which is being allowed, but not necessarily supported, will be squashed. I hope by that time people finally learn the difference between valid criticism and a bash. We have a lot of very smart people on DU who have been extremely, and agonizingly, slow in telling the two apart. A lot of "committed" DU'ers are in for a rude awakening.


So if Dean wins the nomination, Dean bashers will immediately be considered disruptors. The same goes for Clark, Kerry, and yes, even Lieberman. So stick around, real-time Karma is a beautiful thing.

---

SPECIAL GUIDELINES RELATING TO THE 2004 ELECTION

Perhaps the most critical question currently facing progressives is who should receive the Democratic nomination for president in 2004. In order to encourage a robust and thoughtful debate on this topic, we are instituting a few simple guidelines.

Negative attacks are an unavoidable part of any political campaign, and therefore they are permitted against any Democratic presidential candidate. However, once the Democratic party officially nominates its candidate for president, then the time for fighting is over and the negative attacks against candidates must stop. The administrators of this website do not wish for our message board to be used as a platform to attack and tear down the only progressive on the planet with any hope of defeating George W. Bush. Constructive criticism and even outright disappointment with the candidate may be expressed, but partisan negative attacks will not be welcome. If you wish to contribute to the defeat of the Democratic candidate for president, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website. As the election season draws closer, we may expand this rule to include Democratic candidates for other political offices.

[liberalnurse]

93. The bats did it....

as well as your inspiring reply. All the DU'ers of Dean persuasion have been motivating. Actually, all the DU'ers have freely expressed their support or tipped their hat in a supportive fashion.

The message of not giving up is symbolic.....As we don't want to let *bush remain at the White House. I see now we are all together, to agree to disagree ....And that's okay..:)

I'll hang in there....I may need to detatch for a moment if I get lesions or bruises...but I see that we are a group.
That is most special and unique.

[HR_Pufnstuf]

86. Isolate the Bashers

Bash back. Take an anti-NWO stance, rather than a Dem1 versus Dem2. Go figure out which of these two (Dean or Clark) are NWO and vote for the other. Figure out the Handlers first, then vote.

[sasquatch]

94. Bash Clark

They're the ones doing it Liberalnurse don't leave fight back throw a few dirty punches yeah the post get deleted, but as long as you let'em know how you feel you'll win a few.

[ComerPerro]

97. Nah, don't bash back

That only encourages Clark supporters to post ten pro-Clark threads (each), four anti-Dean threads, ten anti-everyone else threads, and maybe even a few ant-Kerry threads.

Personally, I would like to see all of it stop. Dean bashing, Dean supporting, Clark bashing, Clark supporting, Kerry bashing, Kerry supporting.

Bashing of Holy Joe is ok.

And by "supporting", I don't mean "Dean believes that", or "Clark interview on now". I am talking about "nobody else can beat Bush" threads.

[stickdog]

100. Dean criticism = no problem

Repugnican arguing tactics = fuck off, establishment-bots

[LuminousX]

104. Just Remember

So long as a candidate is getting "bashed" then that candidate is still a contender. The candidates who don't get five or six negative threads devoted to them a day should worry. They aren't 'powerful' enough to warrant concern among the other candidate's supporters.

Also, if people feel a need to start a thread that highlights some negative aspects of a candidate, could they please make sure it isn't something that hasn't been hashed, rehashed, and re-rehashed at least a dozen times already? If there is a lot of information, create one comprehensive post with links to your sources and whenever that topic comes up, cut-and-paste that information into one post. That way people who may not be familiar with the information can have a chance to see it and those who have heard the argument so many times before can easily move by it and possibly move the discussion beyond that point.

I'll reiterate a previous point. All the top tier candidates are worthy of being President. They will all disappoint us in some ways and make us proud in other ways. They all will do what is best for this country, though.

[MadHound]

106. ROTFLMAO!!! Grow a thicker skin and deal with it!

Poor Deanies, their candidate is getting bashed. Look, as one of the relatively few Greens around, I personally get bashed, my party gets bashed, my candidates get bashed, subjected to lies, accusations, and distortion. I've been personally insulted and threatened. And you know what? I'm still here, giving as good as I get.

This is the primary season, candidates are supposed to get bashed around a bit, its part of the process. But if your poor feelings are hurt, well, go ahead, go home. But who is going to represent the positives about your candidate? Who is going to refute the arguements, distortions and lies? Not you, you won't be here. Oh well, I guess Dean isn't worth fighting for that much then eh?

With an attitude like that don't ever become a Green around here, you wouldn't last a day.

[CWebster]

107. It is worth the fight

If just to sharpen the perspective. ;-)

[Skittles]

110. stop threatening to leave the DU

yeah, that solves everything. STAND UP AND FIGHT !!!!!

[indigo32]

111. I have no intention of leaving

I will fight those with obvious agendas against my guy.

[Sagan]

117. It's not the Dean bashing that is pissing me off...

It's ALL the Dem candidate bashing.

I will not participate in this. That the formidable research and writing skills of the Democratic Underground constituency should be turned into a focus group for smear generation against Democrats for the Rove machine makes me sick.

If this continues, I not only will no longer come to DU, I will stop my monthly contribution as well.

The Bushistas have plenty of money. I'll be damned if my $10/month is going to go for their benefit.

[mandyky]

118. I ain't going anywhere

I am staying because I wanna say I told you so - both for the nomination and the general election! I am am getting pretty good at selective reading. :)

[quinnox]

120. Perhaps a new rule should be introduced

All the candidates are fair game, but Dean is off limits.

Yea, right.

[Woodstock]

127. My ignore list has 15 Dean bashers on it

I usually give them three strikes before they are out, everyone has an off day or two, me included. But when there is enough systematic bashing, immaturity, passive aggressive behavior with the delusion that nobody sees what they are up to, and/or sheer hatred shown then I just don't bother with them. Yes, I know they are still spouting nonsense. But I can counter it better by responding to the reasonable people and saying positive things on my own.

Just my way of coping - I understand your frustration and was on the verge of leaving before I did this. The thing is, I want to hear the negative things as well as the positive things about all candidates, I'd just like to see them reasonably discussed. I'd also like to see an admission that ALL CANDIDATES ARE DEMOCRATS AND GOOD MEN WHO WOULD BE BETTER THAN BUSH, and their mistakes put in perspective.

[shanti]

130. excuse me, but i'm NOT leaving

forget that...i've been a dean supporter since his first speech in sacramento. what the other candidate's supporters say does NOT bother me in the least and i don't bash the other dems. my focus is on defeating *ush. who does it is secondary, imo.

[mw]

132. Well, they can bash, but Dem candidates are emulating Dean

I just returned here after a long vacation (a year plus).

It's amazing to me that Democrats--who have been, lets face it, PUSSIES when criticizing Bush--now find their voice to criticize--ONE OF THEIR OWN.

Like Dean or not, you have to credit him with giving Dems a spine. The last two Dem debates featured Dems emulating Dean by FINALLY bashing Bush.

DEAN made that happen. He was the first to show Dems how its done.

[curse10]

133. Isn't it ironic

that this thread was about the poor Dean supporters having their candidate being bashed... and turned into a thread with Dean supporters bashing Clark supporters.... hmmmmmmmmm

[Kanola]

135. Some days it gets old and stale

but I just view it as a warm up when our nominee has to deal with the Repug machine.