are the *'s daughters 'snowflake' babies?

[goddess40]

No it doesn't have anything to do with what dear old dad was sniffing up his nose. I just read last weeks top ten and number 4 just made me pause and think - * and Laura only have these two children, they aren't identical - could it be?

No I don't believe that embryos are children but that is the reason * is against stem cell research. I just find it extremely hypocritical of someone the feels that in vitro fertilization is OK would be against stem cell research.

[bryant69]

1. It's a matter of consistancy

You see if liberal scientists assert something it must be wrong! We should tell him we are in favor of breathing.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[undeterred]

2. Nope. Their daughters are fraternal twins and there is

a family resemblance. He's just appeasing the right with this stuff.

[kliljedahl]

11. Yeah, but who do you suppose the father is?

Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Hippo_Tron]

12. I know somebody who saw Jenna at a party once

Let's just say that there is a family resemblance in intelligence as well.

[Lisa]

27. although, she could just be drinking in the hopes of forgetting!

If I found out my dad was George W., I would be doing everything possible to erase that from my memory.

[Enraged_Ape]

3. I don't have a problem with their paternity

Jenna is the spitting image of both of her parents. Barbara not so much, but since they are fraternal twins, I'm sure they were produced from the same night of drunken coke-fueled revelry.

[Cleita]

6. They weren't. It's known that Laura and * had fertility problems.

It's probably because of the partying with alcohol and drugs. Also, Laura is a chain smoker, which lowers a woman's fertility, so although they don't say exactly how the twins were conceived, it seems the in vitro method would be the method that was used.

[Enraged_Ape]

8. Well, maybe

But that doesn't make them "snowflake babies".

[poppet]

15. Not all IVF embryos

are frozen. Some embryos are transferred fresh without being frozen. It is usually only embryos that are not transferred to the uterus that are frozen. I think if there are alot of embryos, some are transferred and some are frozen.

[poppet]

16. Not all IVF embryos

are frozen. Some embryos are transferred fresh without being frozen. It is usually only embryos that are not transferred to the uterus that are frozen. I think if there are alot of embryos, some are transferred and some are frozen.

[patricia92243]

13. Didn't know she chain smoked. n/t

[Cleita]

17. There's a couple of sources, but Kitty Kelly's book the

family mentions it. Look closely at her when she talks and you can see the smoker's pucker wrinkles around her mouth.

[Enraged_Ape]

18. That woman smokes like a dang steamship

There have been several sources regarding this. Frankly, if I were married to GWB, I'd be injecting black tar heroin on a regular basis. I have to cut Laura some credit for just settling for Virginia Slims.

[AndreaCG]

19. Don't forget the Xanax!

[Ripley]

25. Lol.

Frankly, if I were married to GWB, I'd be injecting black tar heroin on a regular basis.

If I were married to GWB, I would realize I had gone completely psychotically insane and would promptly go on a killing spree or maybe just commit myself to the nearest mental hospital for massive doses of drugs.

[Lisa]

30. "I read, I smoke, and I admire"

Reported quote from Laura Lane Welch, prior to her marriage. Supposedly this was in response to Georgie's battleaxe of a grandmother asking "so what do YOU do?" From what I've read about her, Grandma Bush makes Bar look sweet-tempered and easygoing, and had already driven off at least one of Georgie's girlfriends in tears because she was Jewish and therefore unsuitable for the Bush family.

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/05/05/the-mcdonald.php

[Olney Blue]

44. It's illegal to smoke in a federal building.

I hope she smokes in the designated "smoking area" outside the WH.

:smoke:

[Zen Democrat]

29. Several first ladies have been chain smokers ...

Jackie Kennedy, Pat Nixon, Betty Ford and Laura Bush are well-known chain smokers. Of course, no pictures of them smoking were ever allowed.

[Eurobabe]

38. check the lip lines

dead give-away.

[FreedomAngel82]

20. Interesting

I've never heard this before. I knew Laura did pot and all that but not about her problems. Now I know why they don't have a lot of kids like other family members.

[Cleita]

43. In Kitty Kelly's book she writes that the Bushes were

in a party, party circuit of well-off couples in the oil industry in Houston at the time he lived there. A lot of drinking and drugs were involved according to her.

[SmokingJacket]

24. That was pretty early for in vitro.

I think the first in vitro baby was born in 1979.

It's more likely that Laura just had fertility drugs, which also increases the likelihood of twins.

[Cleita]

42. True because we don't know. However it's not

too early for ivf. My stepdaughter was offered that option in the late seventies as she was having a problem conceiving. She turned it down because she couldn't bring herself to accept that the rest of the blastocysts would be destroyed. Yes, I'm sure years of Catholic school influenced her thinking and it was her choice too.

[Cleita]

4. He's against it because his base is against it. No other reason.

If it weren't for the Jesus people, the PNAC neo-cons would be a very small part of the Republican Party. It's because they can market to the concerns of these fringe religious people that they get the votes to get into power. They also bring the gun rights people and others into their party for votes and contributions.

[FreedomAngel82]

21. Exactly

I'm sure he really doesn't give a damn either way. He's just doing what Uncle Karl says.

[Logansquare]

5. They're certainly the Bushes' biological daughters

but it has been rumored that Laura underwent fertility treatments before conceiving.

[uppityperson]

7. Drop "snow" and you'll have it.

[Solly Mack]

9. I'll indulge

The twins are definitely hers...now, as to how they were conceived, I'm not entirely convinced it was in the usual way.

Fraternal twins are not unusual in the least. So them not looking alike means nothing. My mother was a fraternal twin and she and my aunt were very different in looks.

I don't think Shrub has a good grasp on what stem cell research is/what it involves...so I think he has an uninformed opinion.

His brother's wife, Margaret (married to Marvin), can't have kids, so they adopted. I do feel this is why Shrub is big on adoption.

[FreedomAngel82]

23. So why doesn't he ever support adoption in the public eye?

Why just "snow flake" babies? There are already REAL kids who are a live who would like a home. :mad:

[Solly Mack]

28. Chucklenuts does support adoption in the public eye.

Not to defend him, but do a google. It's not like it hasn't been in the news....it has. You must have missed it.

[Lisa]

31. Didn't * and Laura sign up for adoption ...

... before Laura conceived? This might be another reason why he's pushing that angle -- it's something he can actually identify with.

[Solly Mack]

32. IIRC they did.

I know he signed some law regarding adoption.

[XemaSab]

33. Shrub has a grasp on little other than Gannon's pole

but all joking aside, he had a sister die of leukemia at age 3. Why not do the research to save other people's three year olds?

It boggles the mind that these little clumps of cells are worth more to these people than living kids, and adults, and grandmas and grandpas. I really cannot comprehend the moral universe that these people inhabit, I really can't.

Abortion is sad and nobody is for it, but "extra" embryos that will never be children??? You're not killing a little teeny baby, you're killing something with less structural complexity and less capacity for sentience and survival than a diatom, a coral animal, or a fairy shrimp cyst. (As an aside, the Bush administration doesn't give a shit about protecting any of these animals, just clumps of random human cells).

More human life is lost when I fall and scrape my knee.

And I've said it before and I'll say it again, we're only screwing ourselves here. Either the work is done here in the US with American scientists, or it's done overseas, furthering our slide into global irrelevance.

[Solly Mack]

35. I agree completely

[Pastiche423]

41. In the Author's Note

Of Robin Cook's book, Seizure, he states:

"The cloned stem cells in theraputic cloning are harvested from the blastocyst stage well before any embryo forms. The fact is that in theraputic cloning, an embryo is never allowed to form and nothing is ever implanted in a uterus."

As far as the conception of the twins, I personally believe, it was in vitro fertilization. In that process, the father does not have to diddle the mother for her to become preggers.

[moof]

10. Let's see the DNA results or might that call into question the rest of the

so called "family"

[DrDebug]

14. They are drunks like dad. So he is the dad n/t

[XemaSab]

37. Research suggests

a biological basis for alcoholism.

On edit: Of course, I'd drink too if that jerk was MY dad.

[grasswire]

22. they weren't trying to conceive when the twins were fertilized

They were in the final stages of the adoption of a baby. They had no luck conceiving a child. They gave up and were adopting. I always wondered what happened to that child -- the one who nearly was theirs. That would make an interesting tabloid story.

[FreedomAngel82]

26. I wonder too

Maybe she got concieved and they no longer needed to adopt? :shrug:

[Lisa]

36. with luck, the child was matched with a problem-free dad ...

... and has had a happy loving existence. * didn't give up being "young and irresponsible" until his 40th birthday, long after the twins had been born. This did cause family tension -- Laura threatened to walk out on at least occasion, didn't she? He was still coming home drunk, and even throwing up and passing out, when the twins were toddlers. My guess is that they remember this -- a friend of mine has vivid recollections of being horribly frightened when she came across an unresponsive parent who had been drinking. (We did the math and she couldn't have been much more than 3 at the time ... by comparison the twins were more than 4.5 years old when * announced he was quitting.)

Recall that when * announced he was going to go for the presidency, the twins were opposed. At the time, some people thought they were being selfish about their privacy ... but I think it's quite plausible that they've got a pretty good insight into their father and felt it would be a bad idea.

[XemaSab]

39. Yeah, if you believe he stopped drinking then

I've got a bridge to sell you.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/bush/bush.html

[kath]

40. yes, they actually had a baby in their home, but sent it back when they

found out Pickles was pregnant.

[brainshrub]

34. I suggest DUers stop using the term "snowflake baby"

I suggest DUers stop using the term "snowflake baby"; The term is an attempt to frame the debate to imply that frozen blastocysts are alive.

The whole stem-cell debate is a thinly-veiled attempt to set a precedent to make abortion illegal.

My own suspicion is that the terms started like this:

http://www.brainshrub.com/snowflake-babies