How can one defeat an "insurgency"? This is their home, they aren't

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

going anywhere. And for every child, mother, father, sister, brother, etc. that is killed inadvertently, or on purpose, by our troops, we are adding family and friends of those killed to the insurgents' list of the willing.

Even though Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, et. al. have citizens who have joined the Iraq rebellion, the core insurgency is composed of Iraqi's including Ba'athists, Sunnis and those who are angry at the U.S.

And,how effectively can Iraqi troops operate, if their mission involves killing their family, neighbors and friends?

So, we can try to "crush" the insurgents, and, like the Hydra, when one head is cut off, two emerge.

I am now having a hard time believing that our withdrawal would create any more chaos than what's occurring with our military there.

It is time to begin aggressive diplomacy. The country needs to be apportioned out and those districts must be granted autonomy.

It won't be easy. Turkey must be included in the diplomatic talks, as well as Kuwait, Jordan, (gulp) Iran and (gulp) Syria.

Diplomacy has been key in ending many conflicts. Just because gwb didn't try it before the war, doesn't mean that we can't do it now.
We can and must bring our troops home immediately and admit that Iraq is not going be the "democracy" that the neocons envision.

And, oh yeah, they get to keep their oil.

MKJ

insurgence, insurgency - an organized rebellion aimed at overthrowing a constituted government through the use of subversion and armed conflict


:patriot:

[Jack Rabbit]

1. I think I heard same question about thirty-five years ago . . .

. . . give or take a couple.

Is Iraq Arabic for Vietnam?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

2. You're so right...I grew up during Vietnam. It truly is the VC all over

again.

As has been said on these boards, many times, how would US citizens respond to being attacked and occupied, even if it was for "our own good?

I doubt it would be an outpouring of affection and cooperation with whatever government the occupying forces thought we should have.

Are we really doomed to repeat the history of Vietnam? When so many of us have learned from it? MKJ

[Cassandra]

4. And this is why we defeated the British...

twice.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

5. :-) Well said. n/t

MKJ

[Cassandra]

9. During the "Liberty" series on PBS a few years ago...

one of the historians said that insurgent nature of the Vietnam war should have been obvious to Americans who knew their own history.

[H2O Man]

6. Key points.

I found myself nodding my head in agreement with the series of posts on this thread. Our leader's refusal to recognize this conflict for what it is -- especially shown in their continued effort to define the resistance as "terrorists" -- can only result in a highly destructive and totally wasted effort on our part.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

7. An insurgency by any other name is an insurrection.

And everything from the French revolution, to the American revolution to the Afghanistan war with the Russians, that we covertly supported, not that long ago, would qualify.

Our only option is to leave. The sooner the better. And, I'm afraid that Vietnam is now a distant memory rather than the historical learning our "leaders" should reference. MKJ

[H2O Man]

8. Yes. I agree.

Our war effort in Iraq is immoral. And Bush knows this; if he thought it were a noble effort, he would not have had to lie to the American people about it. Sad to say the congress would have likely gone along with the true reasons that Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and Cheney targeted Iraq .... but not the general public.

I am convinced that if the public does not force the administration to end their participation soon, this will become an expensive war in ways that Vietnam was not.

[FreedomAngel82]

13. And I wouldn't be surprised

if it happens again by some greedy oil man who follows in Bush's foot steps.

[WildClarySage]

3. We would do the same thing the Iraqi people are doing

if we were invaded and our government overthrown by a people who were 'liberating' our national resources and using our land to build military bases with which to operate other 'liberations' of our neighbors.

[lectrobyte]

10. Has there ever been an invasion where the invaders won?

It seems like guerillas always won, but I'm not up on my history as much as I should be.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

11. If you look at the last 100 years, not usually. If you go further back

the folks who had the most developed weapons won.

In this day and age, all things are pretty equal in the infantry weapons department.

And, when it comes to guerrilla warfare...the occupiers hold a definite advantage.

Like you, I'm referencing a somewhat limited understanding of history. But, our fairly recent excursion in Vietnam should have taught us the folly of trying to occupy and control any other country. MKJ

[FreedomAngel82]

14. That's why Bush attacked Iraq

He KNEW they had nothing and he attacked them because he thought it would be easy and swift since we have all the WMD's etc. It's all about power and control and draining a country until they're dead. Bush is creating so many mass graves. :mad:

[cestpaspossible]

15. Only if they also colonize

e.g. the Norman Conquest

[Yupster]

16. The Civil War

the invading north was able to completely crush the defending south, but it took 350,000 deaths to do it, and a campaign to burn down the food supply, kill the livestock, and tear up the country's infrastructure before the defense was beaten. They made Georgia howl and made the Shenandoah Valley so barren that a crow would have to pack a lunch to cross it.

And even then, the north was lucky that the south's leaders chose not to go the guerrilla war route. That was openly discussed among the leadership. Who knows how long an insurgency would have lasted had Confederate resistance turned to insurgency?

[FreedomAngel82]

12. I agree

I think if we do pull out all the fighting will stop. Their policemen have to keep their identies a secret when they join up with the military and are being trained by our military and then are considered traitors. It's really quite sad what Bush has done to them and here he's on the Discovery channels top twenty-five of "Greatest American." My fucking ass! :mad: If we really do someday get attacked by someone from Iraq don't be too surprised.

[Yupster]

17. I think if we pull out, there will be

Civil War, but I think that's going to happen anyway, and we're only delaying it, so I don't see what good we're doing there now.

I do think the Sunnis are lucky we're there because once we leave, it will be very rough on them, ad there are decades of scores to settle.

In 1944-45 German soldiers would say to each other that they needed to enjoy the war because the peace was going to be awful.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

19. That's why diplomatic negotiations to apportion the areas of Iraq

is essential.

MKJ

[NMMNG]

18. Indeed

Rethugs just don't get it. As if we wouldn't have insurgents if some foreign power just up and invaded us for no valid reason!:crazy: