"But she's a honor student" rant - Missing girl in Aruba

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

It really peeves me off when the missing girl in Aruba (or anyone else, for that matter) is described as an A-student (or honor student).

So what? What does that have to do with her disappearance? Does it mean only C students can be victims of bad judgment or a crime?

And I'm extremely pissed off when I hear about how saintly and A-student-like she is... The hard and sad truth is that she, like many other 18 year olds without parental supervision, got drunk and, in her diminished capacity, was hanging out with unsavory characters and who knows what else... What may have happened to her is not a consequence or a cause of her stupendous grades. So, always indicating that she is a honor student serves no purpose whatsoever.

:rant:

Ok, I feel much better now!

[charlyvi]

1. Right.

Let's hear it for all us underachievers!!!!

[Roland99]

2. She was an overly protected spoiled rich kid.

Not saying she deserves what she got but the parents are partly to blame for protecting her from reality and not instilling the mindset of "be on the lookout. Protect yourself. Etc."

[Goldmund]

6. What are you basing this on?

[Roland99]

24. Well, how about the median income and housing value

for Mountain Brook, AL.

$100,000 and $336,000, respectively. 98.1% White. Sounds like typical upscale suburbia.

[newportdadde]

29. I believe it was quoted somewhere around here as being one

of the 10 richest counties in the country.

[kath]

32. My family sure the heck didn't have the $$ to send ME to Aruba when

I graduated. And I was damn sure expected to have a summer job the summer before college (and the previous summer too)

[barb162]

38. same here

[H2O Man]

65. Two ignorant statements.

First, blaming the victim is always wrong. Second, making judgements that equate the price of housing with intelligence is indefensible.

[Roland99]

66. Hmm...interesting...since neither of those statements have been made.

[H2O Man]

73. Sure were .....

Post #2: "She was an overly protected spoiled rich kid .... her parents are partly to blame..."

In response to the question, "What are you basing this on?" (Post #6) there is Post #24, "Well, how about median income and housing value for Mountain Brook, AL."

Again, ignorant and indefensible statements.

[Roland99]

74. WTF? You're grasping at empty air now.

I never once blamed the victim. It's a tragedy, yes. But, there is some blame *to* be placed upon the victim for going with three unknown men in a car to who-knows-where. Also, the parents are partly to blame for not having raised a child with enough sense to question getting herself into a situation like that.

And, how did I equate the median income/housing price to intelligence? I have no idea wtf you're talking about there. I was pointing out she was a "rich kid".

[H2O Man]

76. Wow.

"I never once blamed the victim" followed by "But, there is some blame *to* (sic) be placed on the victim ..... Also, the parents are partly to blame..." Unreal.

[Roland99]

81. And the problem with that is?

I didn't put any blame on the victim in my original reply.

However, I realized there really is some blame. Much like a car accident where someone was speeding on a wet night and loses control when an animal appears in their path. Perhaps if they'd been driving safely for the conditions they could have stopped in time.


If Natalie Holloway had exhibited more critical thinking and either not left with the men or, at the least, gotten friends to go with her or alerted someone where she was going, she may still be alive today.


Would you walk around in downtown Baghdad and expect not to be shot?


Would you walk around some housing project in a downtown ghetto waving money about and not expect to be mugged?

[H2O Man]

89. Wow part 2

"I didn't put any blame on the victim in my original reply."

Original reply(post #2): "her parents are partly to blame"

I would hope that you are able to distinguish between going on vacation and "walk(ing) around in downtown Baghdad." But, if you honestly are not able to grasp that your blaming the victims is 100% wrong and indefensible, then I have to accept that your example makes sense to you. Sad.

[Roland99]

95. What's sad is you think this girl exhibited proper common sense.

[onenote]

99. what's sad is equating poor judgment with blame for getting kidnapped

and (probably) murdered. If a woman wears a mini skirt or gets drunk in a bar, and some thug rapes her, do you "blame" her too?

onenote

[Roland99]

101. Oh jesus christ. Apples and Oranges here!

She wasn't kidnapped. She went of her own volition!

Bad judgement = not using common sense

[onenote]

104. okay, try this one

Matthew Shepherd, 21 year old gay male. Meets two guys in a bar, goes with them, gets beaten to death. Does Matthew share the blame?

onenote

[Roland99]

111. I know the results of that case but I don't know the details.

I cannot offer an opinion.

[onenote]

113. and you know the "details" of this case?

[Roland99]

115. I know enough to offer up an opinion.

[H2O Man]

119. No you don't.

An opinion requires facts. It has to be based upon knowledge. What you have offered up is your bias, nothing more.

[Roland99]

120. And there are facts in this case which have been presented to the public.

[H2O Man]

123. Right.

And no doubt you are privy to all of them.

[onenote]

125. such as the "fact" that she was "overly protected" and "spoiled"?

Or was that just your "opinion" based on the fact that she came from an upper income neighborhood?
And here's a link to information about what happened to Matthew Shepherd. After you read it, let us know if you think gay men who meet guys in bars, go somewhere with them and end up dead should share the blame" for what happens. (I don't)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

onenote

[Roland99]

129. There are similarities and there are differences.

He was 21 and quite a bit more independent and knowledgeable. He lived overseas for a bit and was living on his own, I presume, in Wyoming. Natalie was only 18 and had lived at home and had just graduated high school.

How did Matthew get to the bar? In his own car I presume? Why didn't he follow the guys in his own car? Not a very bright move to get into a car with complete strangers, I don't care if you're a woman or a man.


It's not rocket science, people. Shit happens. Don't put yourself into a situation where you don't have much, if any, control.

[H2O Man]

117. You don't know

if she was kidnapped or not. You do not have enough information to make an intelligent statement on that. Obviously, that has not stopped you.

[H2O Man]

116. It's sad you resort

to making something up out of thin air, and attributing it to me. You will be 100% unable to find where I've said that. You simply made it up. It belongs entirely to you.

On the other hand, I have provided quotes from your posts that document each and everything I have attributed to you.

Get the difference?

[Roland99]

121. Then, in your opinion, did she exhibit common sense?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

[H2O Man]

132. That's not a significant question.

And is not, in my opinion, worthy of being answered. However, because you ask, I will try to answer it as sincerely as I can.

Hopefully, Rolland, you will never experience the horror of a loss of a family member to a jackal, or a pack of jackals. I sincerely hope that you do not. However, I hope that you do not remain ignorant on issues involving blaming a victim of a crime such as this. Every male leaves this world dead, but men need not die in ignorance.

Those who killed this girl are responsible for her death -- and they alone are. There is no contributory negligence involved.

Do people ever engage in behavior with risks involved? Of course. Every person who rides in an automobile does. Speeding and other related things are rightfully considered high risk behaviors. If a person going 5 mph over the speed limit is involved in an accident with a person going 25 mph over the speed limit, the 5 mph is rightfully considered as contributing to the accident.

There is no reason to assume the girl was murdered by accident. Hence, although a parent might correctly tell their child that she appears to have engaged in behavior that put her at higher risk of losing control of a situation, it does not equal "blame." The blame goes entirely to the monster or monsters who killed her.

[Roland99]

133. That's far from a yes or no answer. Let's try this again.

In your opinion, did Natalie Holloway exhibit common sense getting into a car with three unknown men?

[H2O Man]

134. You're obviously confused.

You don't determine how I answer a question. I answered it.

To clear something up, I don't know the circumstance of her getting in a car with three men. I do know, however, that you don't know the circumstance either. Hence, neither of us could give an insightful opinion.

[Roland99]

135. IOW, you're avoiding answering the question. Interesting.

[H2O Man]

137. The is no question.

You do not know the circumstances of her getting in the car. You do not know if she got in willingly or not. Hence, the "question" can not be answered. That should not be a tough concept to grasp .... it's actually "interesting."

You know, there are a group of people who thought Emmitt Till's behavior made him partly to blame for his death. Very few people of good will or with an IQ over 60 would agree with them. What do you think? Was Emmitt partly to blame?

[Sparkle]

136. Fact:: If the girl hadn't left with her three new friends,

she'd be home in Alabama with her parents.

[H2O Man]

138. You do not know

how she left with those who murdered her.

[Sparkle]

139. Aren't there witnesses stating she left freely with those guys?

I could be wrong. Or do you not think the three guys is responsible for her disappearance?

edit: deleted murdered

[H2O Man]

140. Her friends said she was seeing

one of the three guys. After that, all that is known to the public is based on what those three said, and what two men who worked nearby said. One should never believe a word that comes out of a suspect's mouth without solid evidence that supports it.

Also, if she never left the USA, she'd likely be alive. However, young people do travel, especially on high school class trips and whatnot. That is not material. The person or people who killed her -- and they alone -- are guilty of her murder.

I mentioned a moment ago, there were those who believed Emmitt Till's behavior was partly responsible for his brutal death. People who believe that have errors in their thinking. Same with this girl.

[ls317]

21. Tragic Event

To say that the 18 year old is a overly protected spoiled rich kid,is a very wide broad brush statement to make about her.
Please explain the basis for that statement???
I am sure there are tons of folks that went on school hs senior trips and made a bad decision and did stupid things.
She made a bad choice and it may have cost her life. As a parent you can only teach a child so much in regards to decision making.You just hope that they at some point get a clue and make the right ones during there youth.
Besides kids don't come with directions,as a father I work on daily basis with my son teaching and explaining things I can only hope.When he is forced to make a choice for his own self hopefully it will be the right one

[Roland99]

27. And most of the kids are overly protected.

I'm a father, too. Two daughters, one about to turn 18 next month. You can bet your bottom dollar she's aware of the reality of the world.

[ls317]

35. Really

Good


Here is something to look at also, yes she may have been a A student? But did she have any common sense or street smarts?? Besides as a parent that is your job to protect your children.

[Roland99]

39. That's what I'm getting at.

It's up to parents to do WORK. Parenting isn't an easy job. Too many parents let their childrens' friends, the TV, or the internet take care of them.

[ls317]

41. Agreed

On a side note there is a local private school HS.You should see the parking lot there are more BMW,hummers and Mercedes its unreal

[Roland99]

48. I saw the aerial shot of Mountain Brook HS on Google Maps

Very nice-looking campus.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. I went to an exclusive private high school

and most of the kids I went to school with had to buy their own cars. There were a few BMWs and fancy sports cars, but the majority of the kids drove clunkers. That was over 30 years ago. My how times have changed.

[ls317]

61. Cost of school

The tution for this school is more than 9,000 a year

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. So is my alma mater

It was close to 10,000 last time I checked.

[northzax]

88. and mine is $23,000

(yes, high school) what of it?

and yes, people bought their own cars, only the nouveau posers had nice cars, the real money was in old volvos and subarus. And yes, we went on school trips and did stupid things (yes, I know better, yes we all 'knew better" doesn't mean we didn't get drunk on the beach) The longer I live, the more I realize how fucking lucky we were.

[proud2BlibKansan]

94. I was responding to post #41

and the comment about the expensive cars in the parking lot of this private school. My point was that this has not always been the case. Times have changed.

[northzax]

106. I would argue that it has become more acceptable

to display conspicuous wealth (and what better way than buying a kid a fancy car) but that it remains, for the most part, a first generation wealth device. And there is more first generation money, and more people trying desperatly to keep up with the joneses, than ever before.

[proud2BlibKansan]

107. That is true

The kids I went to school with who came from long time wealthy families were not as spoiled as the ones whose parents were nouveau riche.

[juajen]

144. Honestly, her parents did a better job of choosing a place

than I did. Aruba is relatively free of crime. I let my 18 yr. old go to Panama City with her classmates, with no chaperones. I am very fortunate that she came back in one piece. I was stupid, but these kids had chaperones and an amazingly safe place to vacation. T'was a horrible fluke.

One difference with my child's trip is that most of them had their boyfriends there were with them and were somewhat protected. No outside guys, to my knowledge.

[onenote]

78. "overly protected spoiled" -- prove it

based on what? The fact that her family lives in an upper income neighorhood? She was privileged, yes. Spoiled? Who are you to say? And "overly protected" -- I doubt you have any evidence to support that one.

onenote

[CambridgeDem]

97. ?

That's an awfully strident posting considering that we don't know anything about the facts of her disappearance.

[Stuckinthebush]

118. Oh, come on...

This could have happened to any 18 year old let off of the leash for the first time in a strange country.

In fact...it probably does happen more than we know, we just don't hear about it.

[Roland99]

122. Exactly my point. Kids are coddled too much these days.

They are protected from any possible harm. Whether you know or it not you apparently feel the same way. "let off of the leash"?

[Stuckinthebush]

143. Well, I'll protect my children from harm any day

how about you?

I will tell them about "bad" people, and I do tell them to be careful.

I'm sure this girl's parents did the same. Just because they live in Mt. Brook (the city next to mine in Alabama), doesn't mean that they didn't prepare their daughter.

I have seen children from all economic backgrounds make stupid decisions at that age. Yes, when they are given their total freedom, they are let off of the leash. No curfew, responsibility to only themselves, freedom to go wild...these are things they don't have (usually) when in high school at home. This girl like many, many others her age was celebrating the passage into perceived adulthood with irresponsibility.

[Catherine Vincent]

3. I know what you mean.

It also goes to show you that A, B, C, D, and F students drink and go off with people they hardly know.

And what's the deal with people saying how pretty she is?

[amazona]

5. like we all didn't do it

Come on, she is 18. If you never partied and hooked up with strangers at that age, I'd check your blood pressure. The girl is guilty of nothing more than doing what everyone does and just having an awful turn of terrible luck.

[charlyvi]

9. Yes.

Especially on vacation to a tropical isle; this may have been her first trip without her parents. Can't condemn her for kicking her heels up a bit; it's tragic that it ended up with her the way it did.

[FreedomAngel82]

30. Wasn't she

never taught to go off with strangers? Even if they didn't do anything still. Your parents should've taught you something like that. I know mine did and besides I'm not an idiot to know any better. If she was so smart why did she go off with them? And what is an eighteen year old doing at a club anyways and drinking? My opinion is the parents are trying to put the blame off their daughter (she does have some role in it going off with strangers) and put it all on the strangers who did do something with her. That's what it sounds like to me. "Oh it's not her fault! She's so smart!" :eyes:

[DrGonzoLives]

43. Blame the victim...

:eyes:

[earthmama]

57. Its allowed someplaces

18 and drinking. The legal age in Quebec is 18.

[charlyvi]

70. Don't tell me what my parents should have taught me.

You have no knowledge of them and I resent the fact that you are lecturing me about their parenting skills. Stop being so self-righteous. I was probably 18 before you were born; times were very different then.

She went off with three guys she met at a bar, one she had met previously at the casino in the hotel where she was staying. She probably didn't consider him a stranger.

Drinking at 18 is allowed in Aruba.

Her parents are grief-stricken; don't assume you know their motives. You're talking out of your ass, viciously I might add, because you don't know squat about what they are going through.

[SoCalDem]

79. Teenagers "usually" disobey what parents have taught them

That's what "testing the boundaries" is all about. The dangerous element in the whole story is alcohol.. Alcohol prevented her 'friends' from sticking with her, and insisting that she stay with them..It allowed her own judgement to slip enough to go off with guys she barely knew, and would never see again. It may have emboldened the males involved too..

Usually you just end up with a bunch of drunk teens who sleep it off and are amazed at how stupid they were.

or

they end up dead in a car crash (like my best friend's son, and more than a few of my own son's friends)

they end up dead from the excessive alcohol

they end up dead at the hands of a fellow drinker who 'went too far' or 'misunderstood the signals'


Shame on:

the trip coordinators/chaperones who failed their jobs miserably

the school for giving the whole 'adventure' its implicit 'seal of approval'

the parents for aggreeing to and paying for a potentially dangerous 'vacation' for their 'not-quite-ready' kids

[Goldmund]

82. OF COURSE it's not her fault.

Fuck. :eyes:

[BlueStateGirl]

112. It's not her fault. So,the men who murdered her are only what, 70%

responsible for her being dead?

Tis is one of the more arrogant and judgemental posts I've come across recently.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. That's why the chaperones were on that trip

I am not sure who is more wrong here - these chaperones who must have been too busy enjoying the sights in Aruba to actually supervise these kids OR her parents for allowing her to go in the first place.

[tanyev]

16. I can't believe a high school would allow an end of year

trip to Aruba. Our school's senior trips consisted of the nearest Six Flags or water park. Since high school seniors are not even old enough to drink in most states, what in the world did they think these kids were going to do when they got to Aruba? Go to museums?

[charlyvi]

20. I've heard recently of some schools

if they can afford it, going abroad for the senior trip. Europe mostly, but the Carribbean as well. This girl is from Mountain Brook, a very wealthy suburb so I'm sure the class could afford to chip in a pay for the trip easily.

[barb162]

42. My cousin's kid's high school class trip was to ten countries

in Europe. (Orland Park, IL)

[tanyev]

50. I think that's just crazy.

You could not pay me enough to attempt to chaperone an end of year trip to a foreign country. I am making a distinction between a senior trip and a trip with an educational purpose. To me, a senior trip would be just like the kids that head south for spring break. There's only a couple things on their mind and it all fits under the heading of "partying."

If they are that wealthy, then kids can go on their own with their family or a few friends. A school is just opening itself up to all kinds of liability if they sponsor such a trip.

[charlyvi]

77. I was thinking that those chaparones must have a screw

loose. Tropical island, raging hormones, WOW!

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. My senior class went to

a park across the street from our school. We thought we were the luckiest kids on the planet. LOL

I was at a party the other night with a bunch of folks my age (I am 51). We took an informal poll and not one person there had gone on a class trip as a senior in high school. And not one parent there said they would allow their high school senior to go on such a trip. When did this class trip stuff start?

[amazona]

25. it started in the late 70s, guess we just missed it

No class trips in my day, but I know people only a few years younger than I am who participated in senior cruises or trips of several days duration to DisneyWorld. Sure, there is drinking at such cruises or parties. 18 is a young adult, and young adults will try their wings. I don't see how a parent could stop an 18 year old from taking a trip if the teen paid for it herself.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. I know I would never have let my kids go on this kind of a trip

at age 18. I don't care who paid for it. First time my oldest went anywhere for more than a weekend with friends he was 20 or 21. And I wasn't too crazy about that. My youngest is now 22 and he is planning a trip to Europe in the fall to visit his girlfriend who is going to school over there.

[amazona]

44. well sorry I first went on a class trip in 5th grade!

Thank God my parents weren't that over-protective. How do kids grow and learn if they never go anywhere without their parents? Class trips, camping trips with Scouts or what-have-you, church retreats, etc. is how most kids learn about the outdoors! I can't imagine waiting until I was 20 or 21 to go anywhere. I have to think that my love of nature would have been cut off at the knees.

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. That is completely different

from a week in a foreign country with chaperones who don't watch the kids.

[Divameow77]

96. Her parents probably assumed the chaperones would be

supervising the kids. Natalee is an adult, yes young IMO to go to a different country by herself, but that is what the chaperones were supposed to be there for.

[proud2BlibKansan]

108. The chaperones didn't even fly on the same plane as the kids

That was a red flag, IMO.

[amazona]

126. agreed it is different...an 18 yr old should NOT be chaperoned

An 18 year old is a young adult, not a kid who should be chaperoned. This young woman had bad luck, but it does not mean that all young women should be prevented from travel, from drinking, from meeting new men, and trying out their new bodies and their new sexualities and their new experiences. Chaperones were fine for me in fifth grade, they are not so fine when poking their noses into the sex life of an 18 year old. At some point you gotta let go. I simply didn't tolerate the interference of older people in my sex life when I was that age. It would be entirely improper. She had bad luck. Yes, she had some bad judgment. Everyone has some bad judgment. The only way you get to develop good judgment is based on experience and experience comes from bad judgment.

Any chaperones are not to blame. The parents are not to blame. The travel industry is not to blame. Aruba is not to blame. The young woman wanting to get experienced is not to blame.

The only people to blame are the evil men who kidnapped her.

[FreedomAngel82]

36. I don't think I had one

and I graduated in 2001. I know we tried talking about taking a senior trip somewhere but nothing ever happened.

[kath]

37. what do you think the chances are that any of these kids paid for it

themselves?! Very likely Mumsy and Daddy footed the bill.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. One of the early articles I read

here on DU said these kids had raised the money for the trip.

[amazona]

127. I suspect the kids did raise the money, at least some of it

Heck, while I had no "senior trip," I know that I was expected to help raise money for my summer trips that were sponsored by the school system. I see yuppie type kids around here all the time doing car washes and whatever to raise money for various trips.

[FlaGranny]

80. My high school back in the old days

in the 1930's on, always had a senior class trip. It was tradition. And, the last I heard they always went to the same place - Virginia to tour Mt. Vernon and was very heavily chaperoned. My sister went, but I did not. No one, but no one got into much trouble.

[La Coliniere]

58. No class trips in 1972..

except for the French Club traveling 400 miles on a fully chaperoned trip to Montreal. Got my new Nikon camera, that I saved and scrimped for, stolen out of our hotel room when we went out for dinner. Although many of us seniors were 18 and old enough to drink, we weren't allowed to roam unchaperoned or go out to clubs. However, many of us brought our own booze and partied in our rooms like there was no tomorrow. Kids will be kids.

[tanyev]

71. Yes, kids will be kids

and that is why a school has no business sponsoring an end of year party to a foreign country. As your experience demonstrates, it is hard enough keeping all the kids safe and healthy when it is a trip with a valid educational purpose. And I just checked--the legal drinking age in Alabama is 21.

[Catherine Vincent]

14. Actually, I didn't.

I was shy and more of a homebody.

[TimeChaser]

17. I won't

I'm 18 and I have no desire to do so. The biggest thing I'm doing this summer is going to a huge anime convention in Baltimore with friends.

[charlyvi]

23. Well, TimeChaser,

I was 18 in 1969 and it was a whole other time---Summer of Love and all. Things have tightened up considerably since then. I don't know if that's good or bad; probably both.

[kath]

34. pretty - and is she blonde, too??

[SmokingJacket]

4. Plus, with grade inflation, that means nuthin!

Any shlump can get an A these days...

;-)

[DBoon]

7. because the life of an unattractive C student isn't worth as much?

That's basically what's implied here.

[ET Awful]

10. Why is it that as soon as you said "unattractive C student" I thought of

Bush? :)

[TahitiNut]

8. "All the animals are equal, but some are more equal than others."

Pervasive. :puke:

[ls317]

12. Please Read

Damsel In Distress

Please read damsel in distress from yesterday.....Its from the WP it explains a lot behind hows and whys stories like that are intresting to the MSM

[boohootwo]

13. Knowing that she is an A student says to me that

she is grounded and a hard worker.

[barb162]

51. An "A" student to me means she showed up for her classes and

she did some of her homework. They throw around high grades these days like they threw around a "C" or "D" in my day

[Chipper Chat]

15. The media always fixates on "rich, pretty, & blond."

It goes well in tandem with the de jour jacko story. Remember a month ago it was "Runaway bride & jacko." Before that it was the Colorado girl and Lacy Lacy Lacy. It is effective in keeping the sheeple's attention off bush. And let's face it, if this girl were poor and black, no MSM media outlet would even give a rat's ass.

[kath]

46. yep, if she was an overweight , C- student with zits and glasses from a

poor family (especially if she was black or Hispanic) we wouldn't have heard a darn thing about it.

[earthmama]

59. True! True !

and TRUE!

[Jack Rabbit]

18. It's difficult to talk about this without sounding callous

The problem is that children disappear everyday and it isn't national news. What is it about JonBenet or Natalee or Polly that make them so much more special than the ones we don't hear about?

It is proper for local media to cover these stories. However, when CNN presents stories like these to a national audience, the network is neglecting stories of national scope. Even then, CNN has tended to over-saturate coverage of sensational events; although I live within a hundred miles of Modesto, the home of Scott and Laci Petersen, I thought I knew a lot more even from a few minutes of exposure to CNN about the Petersen trial than was necessary. I didn't need play-by-play coverage of what happened in court, either from CNN or any of the local stations.

These events are tragic and my heart aches for those most affected by them. Nevertheless, although we would have it otherwise, there is nothing so unusual about the kidnapping, rape and murder of a young girl or the murder for financial gain of a woman by her erstwhile mate that it merits as much national attention that too many of these cases receive.

Even when a well-known celebrity is involved, ten or fifteen seconds of air time every hour on a national broadcast will suffice.

[dogday]

19. She left the club with three guys, her friends let her go....

We all know what can happen when a young girl leaves late at night with three guys... She left and waved to friends, they let her go, noone thought it might be dangerous for her?

[barb162]

45. if they were all tanked up, they weren't thinking of danger.

[progressivebydesign]

26. It's like the "multi-million dollar home" slant.

The media likes to categorize things to make it a better story. A fire destroys "multi-million dollar" homes; Honor student missing. The media STILL describing victims in terms of their looks or build (but only if they're pretty or thin or petite). I took some journalism classes in college, years ago. One of the first things they warned us of was using that type of fluff in stories. Does the disappearance of an honor student make it more sad? Does the burning of a mansion make it any less heart-wrenching than the shack? (no because the mansion is usuall insured!), does the pretty woman feel more pain that the plain one? Does the non-caucasian families not miss their children as much as the white families?

I hope this girl is somehow found safe and sound.. or at least that her family gets some closure. No one deserves to go through what her family and friends are going through.. and perhaps what she may have gone through. It's a tragedy. I only wish the media would stop thinking about dollars and sense, and start thinking as humans, and stop sensationalizing things to sell ads.

[Village Idiot]

28. Even though the media is irrationally fixated on this story...

We should not completely ignore the compassionate angle to this story in our anger at the corporate media - her family DESERVES all the support DU can muster, and those investigating her disappearance deserve all the assistance we can find.

The fact that the lying, whoring, corporate media are using yet another story to ignore and manipulate facts about the economy, support for the Chimp, the environment, government corruption, fraudulent elections and illegal occupations is no reason to be disproportionately negative about this unfortunate young lady, her family, or their unenviable plight.

That being said, who gives two shits about how good a student she was, or how unimpeachable her character is? She's just a young American woman who has been missing under suspicious circumstances in a foreign country for over two weeks...

I feel for her parents and pray she is found safe and whole.

</rant>

[earth mom]

33. Her story is being exploited so the Corporate Media Whores

can make money! Anyone young, pretty, smart, well off and with everything going for them is much more interesting and more marketable than say a average looking, poor C student from an inner city school who ended up in a similar tragic situation.

I feel sorry for the girl and utterly disgusted with the media! No one deserves that type of treatment! :puke:

[MountainLaurel]

110. Of course

A poor C student from an inner city high school wouldn't have been on a senior trip to Aruba. Probably they would have been taking care of younger siblings, or asking people if they'd like to supersize their McMeal.

[barb162]

40. Seems to me just about every kid is an honor student these days.

I think if you show up for school it's an automatic "B"

In my school district more than 70% of the kids are on the honor roll...but can anyone spell?

[boohootwo]

47. Really??? No my experience at all. Are you in an

inner-city school district?

[barb162]

53. Nope, just the opposite...a very highly regarded district where

people beg, borrow and steal to get their kids in.

[boohootwo]

87. Does this apply to high school? I can understand it in the

primary grades, but not in middle or upper school.

[barb162]

142. yes, even more so. And I swear no one gets any homework

around here. These kids have these backpacks but are outside from the second school is out until after dark. So when are they doing all of the homework. Well, what homework? I got homework in the primary grades and tons more in high school, a few hours every night. I see these teenagers around here shooting baskets every day for hours after they get home (until school let out a week ago). It's as if they have 15 minutes total homework or something.

[boohootwo]

145. We've had the opposite problem. WAAAY too much work.

Up to 5 hours a night in 9th grade. Sometimes it's overwhelming but at least he'll know how to work by the time he gets to college.

I wonder if the standards of your school are high enough. Does your state have end of the grade testing? We do in NC.

[barb162]

146. I don't know about your last question.

All I know is that if the kids are out this much, where's the homework. I have kids running around next door (grammar and high school) til after dark every day. Dark around here is about 9:15PM. And I see it up and down the block. These kids can't be getting any homework unless they start it around 10:00PM. The standards... you got me...all I know is the local newspaper has lists of the honor roll kids and I think it runs to about 60-70% of the class size. I actually counted the number of names once.

[Bill McBlueState]

55. sounds about right

Two years ago, my former high school had eight co-valedictorians. They all finished four years of high school with perfect GPAs.

It cheapens the efforts of those who really are the best students.

[Zerex71]

52. What peeves me off is that this is news in the first place.

Who gives a sh*t? It's another dumb blonde girl who partied and went too wild. Meanwhile, Bu$hCo is lining its pockets using the world's first War Machine to convert blood into oil into money. It's a really astounding feat of physics.

[stevans_41902]

69. Getting good grades definately does not equal common sense.

I have gone to clubs with girls who will go home with a group of guys they just met - some of these girls are straight A students and some struggle to maintain a C average. I am a mostly A student in college, but I don't think my grades have anything to do with the fact that I was raised to be overly cautious of strangers and personally I just see it as common sense not to go off with a group of guys I just met. Yes, they might be good guys, but then again they might rape you or worse. In this case I blame the school because they were the ones who brought 18 yr. old students to a party island. Of course it is not uncommon for 18 yr. olds to drink, but I don't agree with the school promoting it and letting h.s. students run off by themselves after they get trashed. Of course 18 yr olds are going to go try to drink as much as they can when they get the opportunity to go somewhere legal, which contributes to loss of common sense and bad things happening as a result.

[Zerex71]

86. It's no one's fault but the individual's.

It's called personal responsibility, something which has long gone the way of the flapper era.

[alarimer]

56. 18 year olds are not children

Technically they are adults and shouldn't require supervision. They are allowed to drink in many countries, probably even in Aruba. Bad things happen to people all the time. It is unfortunate that it did apparently in this case but this is not some 10 year old.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

85. Do you have an 18 year old? Well I do, and in my eyes he is

still a child. He is exceptionally bright, and yes, an honor student, but he still by no means Acts as an adult. There is a part of the brain that does not mature until the early 20s. This part deals with reason. Yes, by law they are an "adult". Old enough to marry without permission, old enough to vote, old enough to sign legal documents and yet there really is a good reason why there is a 21 year old drinking age limit in our country.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

91. Old enough to volunteer for, or be drafted by the military.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

98. And? Does that mean that he is truly an adult? It just means that

the government deems he is old enough to commit murder for the state.......

[amazona]

131. no there isn't

I find it really suspicious that for thousands of years people were mature at 18 or earlier and we still see physical evidence that the body matures at around 13, yet all of a sudden in the last couple of years we get this hooey about how 18 and 19 year olds are somehow brain-damaged and inferior. My brain was just as good as anyone's at that age and probably better than anyone's over 40. If you want to talk about diminished capacity, talk about what happens to one's memory at peri-menopause.

It does us no credit to start running down teen-age brains oh-so-conveniently when the job market is tougher and we would just as soon not have to compete with them.

There is no good reason why there is a 21 year old drinking age limit in our country. Other countries that are as well or better run like Netherlands or Germany don't have this silly, insulting limit.

What message does it send to tell young people they are good enough to be killed in a war but not good enough to make their own decisions about what to drink and who to sex with? If you refuse to allow people to get such experiences until they're 21, then they'll just be making the bad decisions needed to develop experience in their twenties instead of their teens. I don't see the sense of it.

[Lerkfish]

60. similarly, football players are "pillars of the community"...

If a football player is in a tragedy, or god forbid they've gang raped some poor person or other similar crime that the establishment lets them get away with, then they are framed as "pillars of the community"...I've never figured out why.
All they do is put on pads and run with a pigskin....what has that done for the community?

Most of the football players I knew growing up were the antithesis of community pillars...they were arrogant, elitist, abusive of others, contemptuous of laws or consequences, and borderline sociopaths.

but sure enough, one or more of them get in the news, and they are local "pillars of the community".

bizarro.

(note: I KNOW there are some wonderful football players, but often this term is used when they get caught for some reprehensible crime, like "a pillar of the community has fallen" or some such)

[Sparkle]

63. I really hate to say this now, but she's not that pretty.

But I do hope she is found alive.

[H2O Man]

67. "But she's an honor student"

Can you provide a context for this quote? I have yet to see it anywhere, but in your post. I suspect it comes from you, and no one else.

[friesianrider]

68. Kinda like the lady on the first trial of that MS Ku Klux Klan guy...

I forget his name. Edgay Ray Killen or something. On his first trial, it was a hung jury, the one woman said she "just couldn't convict a preacher."

Reminds me of my own personal rant. Take your post and whereever you say "honor student" just insert "devout churchgoer" or the like. Oh, he goes to church. Then he MUST be a saint!

[UdoKier]

72. Of course C-students, or poor kids can be crime victims.

But we're not supposed to care about them.


Some animals are MORE equal than others...

[ls317]

75. Not a happy ending

Regardless of how much it cost to go to her H.S School or if she was pretty or not.Or if she was spoiled or what it sad to say I am guessing that this will not have a happy ending
There is a strong chance that the next time her mother will see her daughter will be to make funeral arraignments( sad to say)
Please at least keep this girl and family in your thoughts and prayers,anytime a life is taken its a tragic event even more so when the victim is a child or young adult or an elderly person


compassion

n 1: a deep awareness of and sympathy for another's suffering 2: the humane quality of understanding the suffering of others and wanting to do something about it

[northzax]

90. She'll never see her again.

I see one of two things happening. First, she is dead, either drowned (accidentally or intentionally) or murdered in some other way by these men. If her body got caught in the riptide and went out past the breakers, it'll never be found. Unforuntately, that's the good option.

Option two: she was kidnapped and sold.

[Baconfoot]

83. Excuse me? I think you added something irrelevant to your post.

"The hard and sad truth is that she, like many other 18 year olds without parental supervision, got drunk and, in her diminished capacity, was hanging out with unsavory characters and who knows what else..."

The poor girl's grades, as you say, have been overly emphasized, by being mentioned at all.

But neither would I emphasize or even bring up her diminished capacity. The woman is dead.

One does not invite being dead on oneself by wearing short skirts and being intoxicated in Aruba.

Now as for myself I would argue that one does not invite, say, being date raped and/or gang raped by wearing short skirts and being intoxicated in Aruba either, but I'm probably biased about this for what I assure you are very private reasons you do NOT want to hear about.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

103. I'm not saying she invited it

but, due to the alcohol, her normal 'gut feeling' and/or people sense was/were off.

Of course, no one ever asks for rape or to be a victim of crime. But it is undeniable that a person who is intoxicated will not have the same 'common sense' of a person who is not.

[Pystoff]

84. You all have it bad eh????

Imagine my plight....I LIVE in Alabama so I hear this damn story ALL DAY LONG ARRRGGGG. National news ,cable news ,local news SOMEBODY KILL THE MEDIA WHORES NOW!!!!

[Ashley1102]

93. lost potential

Do you think that maybe they mentioned her as being an "A" student to show how much potential she had that is possible lost now?

[Pystoff]

102. Doubt it

She was from a rich suburb of Birmingham and her family probably had media connections or something of that sort. So it's most likely one of those ribbon tying flower placing kind of things that ppl get wrapped up in. Rich, white, blonde, of course that's lost potential. :sarcasm: That's all it takes to get media attention.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

92. Your remarkable lack of compassion at this point in time is duly noted.

[sakabatou]

100. My dog is smarter than your honor student

[Sparkle]

105. I have a feeling a lot of these high schools will discontinue

having senior trips to all these party islands (Aruba, Cancun, Cozumel, etc.)

[Lisa0825]

109. Idiot on CNN radio news kept saying over and over

that she could be a "beauty queen," and what a great student she was. It was incessant. I kept thinking, "Oh, so stupid, ugly kids are less valuable?"

[CambridgeDem]

114. Help

Can someone tell me how to post a picture?

[neuvocat]

124. Did you see the Simpsons when Bart went missing?

As soon as the papers found out, his picture was put on the front page with the caption "HONOR STUDENT MISSING".

[CambridgeDem]

128. Test

[Sparkle]

130. Wow! Did you take that?

[CambridgeDem]

141. Nope

No, I got it off the web.

[adigal]

147. Somewhat related - white parents are taking their teams out of

a Pop Warner league near Boston because of those "unsafe neighborhoods" they have to travel in, and that the black kids are older and their kids get hurt.

The coaches of the city kids says that they are leaving because they keep losing. One of the white/suburban mothers said, I just am nervous driving into those unsafe neighborhoods.

My issue with this was twofold:
1. Complete racism on display here - little Johnny can't travel into those evil black neighborhoods, you know - who do they think they are fooling with their nonsensical explanation? AND
2. When Johhny gets to high school, and then wonders why he cannot get a college football scholarship, it will probably be because he was only playing mediocre players because Mommy and the Coach didn't want to play good teams. Protecting these kids from real competition is not going to do anything for them except set them up for later disappointment. My husband lived on Staten Island and when he wanted good competition, he travelled to Manhattan or the Bronx to play basketball. You want to get good, you have to play good players. They were not usually on Staten Island.

Sorry for the hijack, but it seemed related to the overprotection issue.