Even though we know bush lied, we must NEVER say they died in vain.

[mopaul]

it just makes people's heads explode.

[wryter2000]

1. It's too cruel

I could never tell someone their loved one died for no reason.

[mopaul]

5. and that's the beauty of it, no one wants to admit it, so they pretend

[arcane1]

15. sometimes the truth hurts

but it's still true

[Goldmund]

2. They are victims of BushCo's crimes.

Those crimes are not victimless.

[fob]

3. Wasn't there a flamefest about this exact use of terminology here

several months back?

I agree that saying they "died in vain" is too sharp a point but I feel it's alright to remind people that they may have died for bush*s vanity. It was his* CHOICE afterall.

[brainshrub]

4. Sorry, I disagree. Shout it from the mountain-tops: They died in vain!

Any soldier that dies in Iraq is a wasted life. All the education, talents and love they would have given to their communities and families is gone forever.

If that stark truth disturbs people: Good.

[SteppingRazor]

7. I agree.

Yes, they died in vain. They died in a desert in some foreign land for no reason that will ever be properly explained. That is a harsh truth to take. But it is, in the end, the truth. And that matters more than hurt feelings or wounded pride.

[pocket]

28. I also agree

They died for nothing.

[bin.dare]

30. again, and again, and again, and ...

Young Willie Mc Bride I can't help wonder why
do those that lie here know why did they die
And did they believe when they answered the call
did they really believe that this war would end wars.

But the sorrow the suffering the glory the pain,
the killing, the dying was all done in vain
For young Willie Mc Bride it all happened again and again
and again and again and again.

from The Green Fields of France

[formerrepuke]

6. It happens to be the truth....but it may take a couple of decades

before anyone (in power) will admit it. 58,000+ Americans died to keep south-east Asia from turning commie-which it did anyway, and for what?

[Flubadubya]

8. I'll say it, by God...

Every soldier who has died in Iraq (now up to 1,700) certainly has died in vain. How else can you describe it? They certainly have NOT died protecting "the freedom" of the American people, no matter how loud the Republican noise machine shouts it.

Any death which has occured for the sole purpose of enriching the elite few and enhancing their grip on the reins of political power can only be seen as futile and in vain.

MoPaul, I know you must have written this sarcastically, so I will take it as such even without the little :sarcasm: smiley!

[MadisonProgressive]

9. It's not up to me to decide whether they died in vain

Each family must search their souls and make that determination. It doesn't help for us to try to help them make that decision. I think most of them will ultimately come to the truth, and it will make them very angry at *. We want to stay out of the way of that train!

[Karenina]

16. The invasion is a HORRIFIC waste

of lives and resources. All based on...



Hey, this is a TOON, not a grapic photo, but I hope folks will look:

[whistle]

10. Well died in vain, not true because the 1,700 plus American

...troops who died in combat so far in Iraq will be forever reminders that a foolish self-obsessed American president could take this great country and drag other countries to war based on unchecked greed, self-serving ambition and a fabrication of untruths.

[wuushew]

11. unless it becomes one of America's numerous forgotten wars

How many people burst into conversation about Grenada, the Philippine War or Korea?

[Flubadubya]

13. If only it could be forgotten...

Not a chance. This will be seen as the war that opened Pandora's box. It will be seen as the lighting of the fuse that will explode the tinderbox that is the Middle East.

This blundering into confrontation with Iraq for empiric purposes just further points out the grand ignorance and hapless disregard of history that this administration exhibits. We WILL be sorry for this one, and NO, it will not be forgotten.

[whistle]

26. Grenada was Ronnie Reagan's phony war although I know we..

...lost good fighting men there. Korea was a totally confusing war from what I have been led to understand. I was very young then (only 3 or 4 years old), but we did loose a substantial number of troops in the war which has never officially ended for the U.S.

<snip>
Korean Conflict IN A NUTSHELL

... we come to the end. The statistical journey has been tedious. This is what we have found to date:

Dead and Wounded

There were 54,258 worldwide deaths between June 25, 1950 and January 31, 1955. Although an armistice was signed on July 27, 1953, officially the war has not ended.

There were 36,913 acknowledged deaths in Korea and surrounding waters—both “hostile” and “non-battle,” including 641 post-armistice deaths, mostly Air Force. Only 34,641 of the deaths have been validated. The “hostile” deaths include 8,177 Body-Not-Returned cases, a mix of KIA, MIA and POW, of which 47 remains have been identified by Department of the Army (CILHI) and Department of the Air Force . Official lists are maintained by the Department of Defense and the various services.

There were 17,355 “other” deaths worldwide, including “hostile” and “non-hostile” deaths—undoubtedly, a number of deaths in the “other” category were deaths not attributed to the Korean Operation or recorded in official casualty lists for Korea. The remainder occurred at other global locations. The figure 17,355 is a “historical” one according to the Department of Defense. The DoD has stated there is no list available for the “other” category of deaths or wounded in action.

There were 103,284 hospitalized wounded in action in Korea who survived their wounds. Some of the men listed in that total are listed more than once. Undoubtedly there were other wounded who were hospitalized in Korea, Japan and other locations, whose wounds were not recorded or attributed to the Korean Operation. No records were kept for non-hospitalized wounded.

There were 98 “hostile” or “hostile-related” deaths in Korea and surrounding waters between 1955 and 1995 .

131 wounded in action in the DMZ since January 31, 1955, insofar as it is known.

<more>
<link> http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/topics/casualties/obrien/obrien_toc.htm

Perhaps if we let our young study all of these modern wars and conflicts without bias and preconceived ideas and attitudes, a great many of them will conclude what Major General Smedley Darlington Butler concluded in his little book: "WAR IS A RACKET". General Butler's concluding remark was, "So...I say, TO HELL WITH WAR!"

http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

[Lone_Wolf]

12. Tell them they died for Corporate America... It's the truth

If people knew the truth, then perhaps so many people wouldn't end up dead. People would be less apt to fight if they understood they were fighting to make Iraq safe for U.S. investments.

I also think it is important to abolish the myth that soldier's fight for Freedom, Democracy, etc.

[comsymp]

14. Agreed - Don't want Poppy getting into a snit and claiming

that we're saying that they died in shame.

[kenny blankenship]

17. I agree. They were murdered for a lie.

"died in vain" is so misleadingly neutral. Just makes it sound like an accident or like they died for a good cause that just wasn't winnable.

[Village Idiot]

18. Treason doth never prosper?

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason."
Author: Sir John Harrington
Source: Of Treason--Epigrams (bk. IV, ep. V)


One day, I pray they will be held accountable.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

19. They were sent to their deaths based on a pack of NeoCon lies.

[ConfuZed]

20. They died in vain!

There I said it they died in vain there was no good cause why they murdered and were murder in iraq it was all based on one stupid man's lies.

[msmcghee]

21. Dieing in vain . .

. . implies that they died for a purpose opposite to or in a way not supportive of their underlying cause.

Assuming their cause was to protect America from terrorism, I can't think of a more accurate use of the term.

Perhaps, you're saying that despite its accuracy - we shouldn't use it - because we might alienate more Americans against us.

I'd just say the truth hurts and it's always better to face it and get it over with.

But then, that's why I'd never have any chance of getting elected to a political office. People like to be lied to when it makes them feel good - when it reinforces their own prejudices.

As a non-politician I see no reason to indulge their stupidity.

[Double T]

22. That Monkey Faced Idiot Is 100 % Accountable For Every Life....

and limb lost in this illegitimate invasion and occupation

[charlyvi]

23. Well, If we learn this war and these warmongers brought

us to the brink of fascism, maybe they didn't die in vain. That's providing we do learn the lesson and we don't end up a fascist state. :eyes: The jury's still out on that one.

[katinmn]

24. I agree. But we can say they died because the country was lied to.

The individual sacrifice of soldiers and families should be honored. I've read that some soldiers stopped believing in the mission but feel that if they quit, someone else will just have to take their place. They feel honor bound to serve.

Also, soldiers are arrested for desertion or refusal to follow orders. Not many people would want to have that hanging around their necks the rest of their lives.

Before Bush's War, people still believed -- to varying degress -- in leadership and that they had America's best interests at heart. They believed that they were going to the ME to defend our country.

Now that we know the truth, its up to the people, by pressuring Congress and supporting those few leaders who ARE speaking the truth, to prevent future wrongful deaths.

[Disturbed]

27. They did not die in vain.

Bush Junta Iraq Successes

Saddam will no longer sell Iraqi oil via the Euro.

A military foothold in the ME.

No countries will be able to buy Iraqi oil that the U.S. disapproves of.

The Multi-Intl. Oil Corps are reaping great profits, esp. Bush Junta fave ally Saudi Dicktatorshit.

“We live a lie when we fail to hold leaders accountable for their lies. By not calling now for impeachment, we are saying that we condone hypocrisy, pseudo-democracy, and murdering thousands of Americans and Iraqis for strategic control of energy resources that we have no right to. Patriotism demands that we insist on the ideals of democracy, not that we support the "leaders" who cynically destroy them.”
Robert Shetterly

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. They died in honorable service to their country.

And they also died in vain.

The one does not negate the other.

[maxsolomon]

29. they died so you can fill your tank with iraqi oil

if you can even fill your tank 20 years from now, it will have had something to do with it.

this is not the same as saying it has been worth it, or a noble sacrifice for freedom. it hasn't. they're not dying to DEFEND my "freedom" or BRING iraqis "freedom & democracy", they're dying to defend our sleep.

[Zen Democrat]

31. Don't be ridiculous. They died for George W. Bush, for nothing.

Just like the thousands and thousands who died in Vietnam died for the Pentagon/CIA/National Security Agency war machine, for nothing.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. No. They died happily waving the flag and shouting "I love Dubya".

Anybody who thinks soldiers spend a lot of time considering what they're fighting for, or against, has never been in the military. And, the very last thing most of them wanted to do was die for anything.

Soldiers die because politicians decide soldier's lives are worth spending for their ambitions.

Most soldiers fight because their too frightened to do the sensible thing and run like hell.

[Zhade]

33. But they did, and these fascists must be held accountable for that.

NT!

[Lecky]

34. well...

People's heads should explode in anger against the administration responsible!