I bought some bar soap today. It was made in China.

[barbaraann]

I noticed this after I got home and I find it very scary. It seems like our country couldn't function for one day if Chinese imports were to be cut off.

[JohnLocke]

1. We're losing our industrial base. We no longer could build a war machine,

if necessary. It's frightening.

[sdfernando]

12. You're exactly correct

You're exactly correct. One of the deciding factors in winning WWII is that we could pump out the war machine like nobody's business. Liberty ships were coming of the line so fast the Germans and the Japanese had no hope of sinking anything but a small fraction...not too mention the tanks, planes, artillery, ammunition, clothing, nylon (for parachutes)...you name it. We could even provide our own oil and fuel. I doubt this country could mount this same kind of effort today.

[JohnLocke]

19. Bingo.

Meanwhile we have China saber-rattling at Taiwan and modernizing their military, all while happily arranging for the lifting of the EU small arms embargo and cranking out physics and math Ph.Ds.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

2. Be careful

My experience with Chinese soap is that it's very, very drying.

They own us. If only people knew how much they own us, they'd be horrified.

[barbaraann]

3. Thanks. I'll be careful.

I hope it's safe.

[Lisa]

44. yes, and watch out for their candied salted olives ...

A Chinese colleague dared me to try some. A veritable weapon of mass confection! I lost my appetite for the rest of the day.

[Rich Hunt]

59. yeah, it is

...but the bee and flower brand smells soooo lovely!

When they make Bee & Flower in the US, I'll buy it.

[ArkDem]

4. They got me rockin' and a rollin', rockin' and a reelin'

barbaraann

[barbaraann]

26. Isn't that a great song!

:-)

[Kraklen]

5. No, it wouldn't function.

That's probably all part of some grand plan.

[Kolesar]

6. We have to go to China for bar soap?

What do they do? Ship it here by the container ship load for three cents a bar?

[yankeedem]

16. Yep.

It shocks me to see how much food is imported. Juice is imported from South America. Because you KNOW there are no apple trees in the US. That really good EZ peel shrimp? Southeast Asia. I had some frozen microwave lasagne yesterday- product of Argentina.

Yes, it's scary. It also tells me that fuel is too cheap- if it is worth it to ship something like soap 15,000 miles rather than from a US plant, that tells me fuel is too cheap. And of course those Chinese workers won't demand a day off, or overtime pay, or bathroom breaks, or a living wage like us spoiled Americans.

[Kolesar]

20. New Zealand apples in Ohio grocery stores

I can practically walk to a commercial apple orchard from my house and there three within biking distance. It is insane. I think you are right that the transportation costs have leveled everything.

[yankeedem]

22. Ironically, it may be what brings American jobs back

If it costs 2x as much to ship, it will be made here. Watching another boat come in (I live facing Port Newark, NJ). More cheap crap, headed to a Walmart near you!

[kodi]

25. that is why we still make broadloom carpets in the USA, its heavy to ship

.

[Maple]

27. Heavier than cars?

Because you're about to get hit with Chinese cars.

[jmowreader]

34. There's not as much profit in a roll of carpet as in a car

A roll of carpet is 12 feet wide by 75 feet long--or 100 square yards. It weighs about 3500 pounds and retails for, oh, let's say $2500. (The price is usually not $2500; I figured that based on a $25/yard carpet--which is a good sound carpet but not the most expensive one you can buy.) And unless you're extremely lucky, you're going to sell at least part of that roll at a discount because the last few feet at the end of the roll have always been sold as a remnant.

Now! A Honda Accord weighs 3000 pounds and can cost $25,000 if you trick it out right.

If you had to put three thousand pounds of something on a cargo ship and sail a week to get it to your market, would you want it to be worth $2500 or $25,000?

[trogdor]

68. Actually, that Honda Accord was made here.

In Marysville, Ohio. Came to you by truck just like a Chevy. Your point is still good, though. You wait until we have the first Chinese-made car in the US (I bet they sell it as a Chevy). Guess how many people will not care how long it lasts when the sticker price is only $6995, with factory air thrown in.

[jmowreader]

83. I know MY Honda Accord was made here

I think they all are.

Large, bulky, easy-to-make low-profit items will continue to be made in the US simply because shipping eats profit margin. Expensive, easy-to-make high-profit items that don't have a lot of regulatory baggage will be made in the US because that American Flag on the side of the box is a mighty powerful sales tool.

Carpet makes sense to make in the US because it's huge.

Semiconductors do not--our laws on hydrofluoric acid are different from those of Bangladesh.

Cars I don't know about. Ford sends jobs to Korea, Hyundai sends them to Alabama. Figure that one out.

I'm also waiting for India-made cars. There's a growth market for you.

[nicknameless]

90. Japan and Germany are now setting up auto plants in southern USA,

where labor is cheap for them. I think it was on Ed Schultz’s show this week that I heard that one.

[grasswire]

23. here in Oregon....

.....most of the fabulous strawberry crop is sold to food manufacturers who want it for ice cream, jelly, etc., to sell all over the world. The supermarkets don't carry local berries. Ya have to go to a fruit stand or farmer's market to get any local berries. Meanwhile, at the supermarkets are flats of California strawberries, bred for durability, not flavor.

Tell me how that makes sense for consumers. We can't even buy the sweet strawberries grown in our own local fields, without driving a distance and paying a premium.

[Kolesar]

29. I think they get caught up in mass purchases and health standards

They establish a deal with one prime supplier then keep it going. Food merchants have to be cautious about food safety. There was bacteria in batch of onions that wreaked havoc on Chi Chi's restaurants after someone was "poisoned" in Pennsylvania.

I asked the manager of the cafeteria at work if the cafeteria could feature local foods and he described the elaborate preparations were required by his management. The paperwork task is huge.

[barbaraann]

31. Did you know about that new thing where farmers sell direct to

people who sign up for a box of produce every week during growing season? Dang, I can't think of the url...

[DoBotherMe]

39. Is this the link?

http://www.specialtycrops.colostate.edu/SCP_csu_csa.htm

I googled "a box of produce every week during growing season."

D ; )

[barbaraann]

40. Yes, that's one of them!

Thanks! Very good Googling. :-)

[Patty Diana]

42. just looked up the link and they're sold out for 2005__WTF it's only June

[barbaraann]

43. Wow! Sorry about that.

It must be a good deal for everyone.

[DoBotherMe]

46. Here's another link to a clearing house of CSAs

http://www.localharvest.org/

D ; )

[KoKo]

87. At my Mall last weekend, clothes made in Jordan, Mongolia, Brunai,

Guatemala, in addition to Malaysia,Turkey, India and many small countries in the former Soviet Union whose names I can't remember. It was kind of shocking. I wondered if Bush rewarded the "Coalition of the Coerced" with textile "sweat shop" jobs because I think some of the names were on that list that showed up on those clothing labels. :eyes: I saw no clothing made in China so I think the "textile market" has moved out of there. They make everything else we use so maybe they "offshored" the textile business.

[Raksha]

48. Hey, don't trash California strawberries!

Of course, In my area I can get them fresh from the fields. I think they're incredibly sweet and delicious--maybe not early in the season but later on. It's a shame you can't get your own locally grown ones, though.

[nicknameless]

62. Sadly, California strawberry growing often involves Methyl Bromide.

A VERY toxic fumigant.

[progressivebydesign]

73. We have to buy from stands here in Washington, too.. n/t

[Protagoras]

75. Yech I hate those "COSTAL" strawberries

shipped up here...huge and red and all the flavor of plastic.

[nicknameless]

91. So much of American food reminds me of the acrylic “food” that’s displayed

outside of Japanese restaurants.

It’s all about looks only.

[muriel_volestrangler]

51. And your Ohio apples are in season in June?

No British apples are in season yet. If we want them now, we expect to get them from southern hemisphere countries - it's too long after last year's season for fresh British apples.

[Kolesar]

64. That's a good point. Maybe we should not expect them...eom

[Love Bug]

7. Well, look at it this way...

They are probably less likely to go to war with us because we're good customers! :crazy:

[AndyTiedye]

8. My New Locking Mailbox Was Made in China

Even the pole to mount it came from China.
The whole thing weighed over 70#.
It never even occurred to me that they would ship something like that from China.

[seabeyond]

9. levi's made in columbia

caught my eye yesterday. washing two new pairs. use to be u.s. of a.

[yankeedem]

17. Levi's closed their last US plant a couple years ago

nt

[NuttyFluffers]

54. yes, very sad. can still see a closed levi plant in SF.

and they tried as hard as they could to not close it.

one of the last, if not the last, major jeans manufacturer to close up shop in usa. they tried, but in the end they had to close it up.

still love a good pair of levi's. though i am buying nosweat jeans as well.

[Cleita]

10. I get my soap from Trader Joe's and it's made in

France. I don't know if this is better, but at least I know that it isn't made with slave labor.

[Ariana Celeste]

14. That's where I get mine, too.

Good stuff!

[NuttyFluffers]

55. i get their soaps too. great stuff.

castillian milk soap?, peppermint soap, some sandalwood soap if they have it. good stuff.

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

11. Soaps made in China?

Thankfully, I make my own! :hippie:

[Igel]

13. So make your own.

It's not tough.

Don't know where they make the lye these days, and I'm probably using fat from Argentina, but at least it keeps me busy for a little while once or twice a year.

[murray hill farm]

21. U beat me to it, igil!

right...make your own...then u, personally will never be dependent again....it is easy..and all the ingredients can be bought at your local super market..and ya know...the saop is so much nicer than the stuff u buy already made. there are a lot of things we can learn to make on our own..soap is a good place to start.

[Horse with no Name]

69. Can you post the directions please?

I would love to make soap.

[murray hill farm]

76. i sure could...but

it will be easier for you to just type in "home made soap" in your search window..and u will be amazed at how many hundreds of recipes you will find for soap. here , though, is a basic one..and one my grandmother used. 11 C of lard (u can use the cheapest solid veg shortening u can find in place of lard), 11.6 oz of lye, 1/2 C of powdered borax and 5 C of rain water. In a plastic or glass container, stir the lye into the water with a wooden spoon. slowly add lukewarm lard and stir to mix thouroughly...until it slightly thickens...when it does this thickening (this is called the "trace) add 1 T of lemon juice...and any other scents or herbs or essential oils or oatmeal..whatever u have or would like to add. i even put green tea in mine once..hehe! pour the whole thing into a mold. i just use the bottom parts of cardboard boxes...usually already cut about an inch deep..u see them in grocery stores with desplays of canned veggies or soda cans..and they will give them to you. line the bottom with clear wrap..like saran wrap..that makes it easier to get the whole hunk of soap out once it hardens. after about 24 hrs...take a knife and cut the soap into bars and remove..let them set to cure for about one month...it really is easy..it really makes you feel good to do it yourself..and it is much better soap than u can buy. good luck.

[Horse with no Name]

81. Thank you so much.

Archiving this.

[barbaraann]

32. Well, last year I bought some homemade soap at a farmer's market.

I would probably hurt myself if I tried to make soap myself, but I will buy some homemade stuff the next time I see it.

[Red State Rebel]

65. It's much easier than you think and the results are fantastic!

I use an all vegetable recipe - Shortening, Olive Oil and Coconut Oil. You can add whatever fragrances/herbs you want and it's fantastic for your skin.

Just do a google search for cold processed soap recipes and have fun!

[barbaraann]

67. Thanks--I will Google that.

It looks like I might not hurt myself with that recipe!

[Igel]

80. No, it's pretty hard to wreck it, too.

You can weight the ingredients or use a measuring cup (of course, weighing is a bit more accurate).

There are soap tables available on the web (the websites keep changing), or you can buy a book on making soaps at Borders/ Barnes & Noble. I usually use olive oil with a little beef fat--the local supermarket sells it to me for next to nothing, and I render it. It's a lot cheaper than cocoa butter or palm oil, and I personally don't have ethical problems with dead cow in my soap.

Splashing lye around could be dangerous, just keep it away from your eyes; I think it's an overstated risk, otherwise, if you rinse well soon afterwards. I mix my lye outside and let it cool, just because it bothers my nose.

There are two drawbacks with cold-batching soap. Cold-batching is slow, but safe. You mix everything when warm, stir, and eventually it thickens. You put into molds, and wait for it to set. Curing time is a month or two.

I liked playing with thermite when I was a kid, so I hot-batch the soap in a really foolish way. I mix everything together and heat it until it reacts really quickly, risking boiling over, and splashing boiling caustic grease everywhere. I don't recommend that, but it's nearly done by the time you put it into molds. It's only soft because it's hot, and curing time is a week or two.

One plus to homemade soap: Last winter our pre-toddler was caught chewing on a piece of soap he "reclaimed" from his bathtub. His ma freaked out, but I said it was just olive oil and a little beef fat, with at best negligible traces of free lye in it (it was "super-fatted", to make it extra gentle).

Good luck.

[barbaraann]

84. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge!

I never knew so many people made their own soap. :-)

If I have time this winter, I will give it a try!

[NuttyFluffers]

56. ash + water = lye.

but a bit dangerous, gotta have some controls or you can get burned pretty bad by the base.

[Igel]

78. That's the old fashioned way.

Better just to use lye and not deal with all the other stuff in the ash.

[Up2Late]

15. Are you sure the SOAP is made in China, or was it Packaged...

...in China? Or was the Box Assembled in China?

What Brand?

[barbaraann]

30. It's Pure-Aid Pure Spring (a Kareway Product)

It's a knockoff of Irish Spring and it does look like the soap was made in China. Maybe I'll compare the ingredients to some real Irish Spring.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. Well, you ain't nuthin' but a commie lovin' traitor!

You probably drink French wine and listen to Cuban Salsa.

[barbaraann]

33. hehehe

I drink local beer and listen to Air America, which is probably even more subversive. ;-) I'd rather eat salsa than listen to it. :D

[catmandu57]

24. And that's why these idiots are cutting their throats when

they threaten Iran. Iran has treaties with China to supply oil to them, if chimpy* and others get froggy China doesn't have to use their military, all they have to do is cut off their financial support and we fall apart.

[Uzybone]

28. Swimming trunks made in indonesia

n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. Here's the worst

You know how we're not supposed to import Canadian drugs because they might not be safe? You know, unlike Vioxx. :eyes:

Have you looked at the label of Walitin, which is Walgreen's version of Claritin?

Guess where it's made.

India.

:wtf:

[barbaraann]

37. The hypocrisy is just beyond belief, isn't it?

n/t

[TrogL]

36. Be nice if they made some decent stuff

I bought a Chinese sink plug at a dollar store. The chain immediately rusted.

[dave29]

38. be sure to keep the box

in case it sucks.. so that you can climb up on it and yell about it

[barbaraann]

41. I'm getting very curious to see how it works....

but not curious enough to take an extra shower today. :D

[Lisa]

45. I wanted to buy a Chinese friend some Canadian souvenirs for her family

Guess what -- most of what's in the stores, T-shirts etc., is made you-know-where!

I got her some woodcarvings and stone pendants made locally -- luckily she likes handmade stuff.

[NewJeffCT]

71. and my in-laws from China wanted to buy something "Made in America"

and, we really struggled to find something made here that was reasonably priced (under $50)

We finally found some clothes, but who knows? I know some companies have things made in China and then packaged here in the US to be labeled Made in America...

now, we just buy them mint sets of coins from the US Treasury Dept. That seems to keep them happy.

[nicknameless]

47. How about apple juice from Turkey and China?

Seen today at Albertsons. It was their store brand, frozen concentrate Apple Juice. One metal lid was marked Turkey and the other China. ... How sickening.

[Pachamama]

49. Same w/ Apple Sauce at Safeway! I discovered this a few years back

and was shocked to discover that the applesauce was made from apples in China....here I was living in CA, with my neighboring states of Oregon and Washington having some of the best apples in the world and why the hell was this applesauce being made from apples clear on the other side of the world being sprayed with who knows what chemicals, possibly even ones banned here in this country.

From that moment forward, I stopped buying the Safeway brand etc. items and ALWAYS checked the point of origin on products. I realize that requires to pay more, but for my health, but I try to buy as much locally grown and organic if I can.

[NuttyFluffers]

58. i did notice produce in japan is par excellence

i think a lot of it actually comes from america. japan can only cover 40% of their food needs and need to import the rest (as learned from my class). and they have an obsession of having the best and are willing to pay for it. it wouldn't surprise me that our best stuff goes to japan.

produce smelled like produce, it was wonderful, magical even. strawberries smelled like strawberries. melons smelled so fragrant that even i, who is not too fond of watermellon and such, was drawn to it like a moth to a flame. tomatoes were sweet -- sweet i tell you! all the produce was sweet, delicious, fragrant, i almost wanted to roll in it all. i haven't tasted produce so succulent and sweet, let alone fragrant, in america in YEARS. i was absolutely floored how delicious it all was. and here's the weirdest part, food there left me full. i may not have eaten a lot but i was always satisfied. somehow my guess is the sugars were left to ripen in produce and prepared food wasn't overprocessed, so much was natural and whole that my body actually felt satisfied. it's a weird experience that stuns me and my friend even now.

[nicknameless]

60. Ugh!!! I’ll bet I bought some! Will read ALL labels from now on.

It hadn’t even occurred to me that those kinds of food products might be imported!

After the juice cans, I found myself looking at items in the store that were on my list, but questioning in my mind what god-awful processing had gone into them. I passed up potatoes that looked too perfect (GMOs?). Skipped needed spices (irradiated?).

Fortunately, I very rarely shop at those kinds of stores anymore. I had stopped during the worker strike a couple of years ago. But now I’m completely grossed-out by just imagining what the corporate misanthropists have done to the food.

You’re absolutely right that it’s worth the effort to be careful, read, and buy organic whenever possible! ... I can’t believe how creeped out I still am from this experience.

[progressivebydesign]

72. I now check labels closely.

Unless it's bananas.. I REFUSE to buy foods that can be grown here, from other countries. It's one thing to buy imported foods because they are imported (i.e. some asian food products or (gasp) french)... it's QUITE another to buy foods produced in other countries, when the commerce is being taken away from our workers and farmers.

[nicknameless]

88. It’s great to buy produce from the States whenever possible.

But it’s exasperating how difficult that can be at times. The luckiest are those who have a good local farmers’ market.

[MissB]

85. Yep. Here in Oregon

I've seen the Fred Meyer brand of apple juice marked Made in China. And that was on the non-concentrate container.

No way.

[nicknameless]

89. Gross :-(

And what’s the deal with non-concentrate apple juice that’s made from concentrate? Even Trader Joe’s organic apple juice in bottles is made from concentrate. ... I don’t understand why they do that.

[hexola]

50. Baby Butt Wipers...

It pays to make these in China and ship them to the US?

How can that be?

[zippy890]

52. coastal new england - haddock from China!

I couldn't believe my eyes at the fish counter in the supermarket.

Haddock is the one fish that is still fairly plentiful in these parts- and there was frozen fish, labeled 'haddock' - from China!!!!

yes it was cheap. but it looked quite unappetizing-

[entanglement]

53. Get used to it. n/t

[Bridget Burke]

57. Soap was one of the first products available from "Red China"

The excellent, inexpensive Bee & Flower brand--in sandalwood, rose, etc.

However, it is packaged & marketed as a Chinese product.

[GreenArrow]

70. one of the very few Chinese imports I knowingly

and willingly buy. And it is marketed as a Chinese product.

[shanti]

74. i love bee and flower

jasmine, mmmmmm

[BiggJawn]

61. Nothing is "Made in America" except "Information" and Entertainment

Oh, cars, too. Cars that the consumer doesn't want, so instead of developing something really slick and economical,(like a Prius) they'll continue to appeal to our sexual performance insecurities and push bloated truck-cars. If REALLY forced to bring an economical car to market, watch for a copy of the East German "Trabant", resin-cardboard body and puking motor, no heat and all.

My medicines are made in Germany. My coffee cup in china. My shoes in the Domincan Republic (from an "American" company!)My "Cheap Soap" that I use for general washing is Mexican.

We could NOT become isolated like we were in WWII. Shit, our military officers carry an ITALIAN sidearm! If China pulled the plug on us, we'd be tits-up in a month.

[Deja Q]

63. If they're so evil and commie-like, why do we deal with them?

We're pwn3d.

Still, the CEOs got their profits. Just like Nixon and Reagan obviously wanted. And Nixon merrily opened the doors to that fascist little nation. (had a Democrat tried, they would have been denounced as communists or worse... funny how these things work...)

LOL. Maybe communism will win in the end. Sorry Reagan. :rofl: Still, it's not the communism any of us Americans would want. You would like it, Reagie-pants, because their communism is about dominance, control, and exploitation.

[Touchdown]

66. Does it contain MSG?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.:crazy:

[VOX]

77. No, but 20 minutes after you wash your hands, you want to wash 'em again.

My apologies, too, Touchdown -- I couldn't resist either. :(

[coffeenap]

79. Two great places to get clothes:

No Sweat--exactly what it says. All is made here or in certified union shops elsewhere:
http://www.nosweatapparel.com/


American Apparel--all made in L.A. by people who would otherwise be homeless.

http://www.americanapparelstore.com/

[expatriate]

82. What I find suprising

is not that the soap was made in China, but that you're surprised by it. This is nothing new.

The consumer base in America drives a lot of what is going on, and corporate interests take care of the rest. So long as people want things cheap, and lots of cheap things, so long as people want fruit and vegetables out of season and aren't willing to pay prices that would reflect a living wage for American workers who produce those things - corporate interests are going to look to places like China and India for cheap labor so they can make as much profit as possible, without having to pay pesky employee benefits or assure safe working environments.

And people in India and China have developed a middle class, and they want the kind of lifestyle that people in America have enjoyed for decades. They're more than willing to crank out tons of cheap goods and take call center jobs to be able to live that way. The Gross Domestic Product of China is predicted to quadruple in the next fifteen years. India's market economy is growing at an unprecedented rate. They aren't going to stop what they're doing, and they're not going to quietly back away from attaining a first world lifestyle.

I can remember when things were made in America - and those goods were more expensive compared to imports, because higher wages had to be paid to the people who produced and transported them. When lower priced products turned up from other countries, people bought them, never thinking that they were in the process of helping destroy the American manufacturing base. Now - you have little choice, because everything is being produced somewhere where life is cheap and people are willing to work very hard for very little money.

An interesting list to read - America is no longer number one:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8191.htm

[barbaraann]

86. I thought soap was so cheap it wouldn't be worth importing.

Obviously I was wrong. :(