Howard Dean gives Republican voters the strong, principled alternative

[Guaranteed]

they need to ween themselves away from the neocons.

I believe that a solid portion of those voting Republican are voting that way because they just don't see the weak DLC Democrats as believable, honest leadership that they can put their trust in. I see this in some of my girlfriend's family. They understand much of what is wrong with the Republican leadership- but the thing is that they believe the Republicans. They know what they're getting with the Republicans. And if the Democrats can't stand up to the Republicans, who are fellow Americans, who will they stand up to? It's the strong devil that they vote for instead of the weak devil that votes with and bows down to the strong devil.

Howard Dean represents the strength of the very real principles that we see in the Democratic grassroots. He's not crazy. Nowhere near it. We all know that. We all can see that.

And they can see it, too. They're truly not stupid. They just don't vote for Democrats because they can't trust them, which is in turn because Democrats don't trust themselves.

Dean has faith. He trusts himself, his beliefs and his supporters. He puts his faith in the truth.

It's just leadership. And when it comes to governmental representation, that's what it takes to win votes. The sooner the Democratic Party as a whole comes to realize this, and ACTS on it, the sooner we will take back the House, the Senate, and the White House.

[lonestarnot]

1. Howard Dean

:kick: 's ASSSSSSSSS!

[EDT]

2. He's a mixed bag- pro gun rights, anti Iraq war-

I'm not sure how much of a good formula that is in attracting what I see as a pretty polarized group of voters.

[havocmom]

3. He plays well in Eastern MT

For all the reasons stated in the OP

[Guaranteed]

4. I think the gun rights issue is actually one of Dean's best "pluses."

I realize that many here disagree with that, but it's something that will really help Dean connect with those voters that we've lost. Those specific voters- seriously. A lot of them have turned on that very issue. Again, like my girlfriend's family. They're not gun-nuts- but they believe in the 2nd Amendment, as I'VE framed it- as a protection against a totalitarian government.

[billbuckhead]

5. The NRA and the Confederate flag will bring in lots of converts

as long as they're not white Christians. Right now, Howard Dean is the best thing RepuKKKEs got going for them. They are frothing at the mouth trying to make Dean the face of the Democratic party

[Guaranteed]

6. I don't think that you're looking very far down the road, there.

In particular if the majority of the party took Dean's lead. I think things would change pretty quickly.

[billbuckhead]

9. Urban voters want gunregulations &there are more of us in the Dem party

Urban areas are growing and most rural areas are dying. time is on our side. If Congress and the electoral college didn't skew so undemocratically rural, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Rural voters are always going to find some excuse not to vote Dem because it's really against their interests. We had a progun Dem governor in Georgia and they beat him with the Confederate flag. In West Virginia and Arkansas they gave out flyers saving the Dems were going to ban the bible and force gay marriage.

[Guaranteed]

12. OK. Look, I understand what you're saying, but here's the deal:

To begin with, both rural and urban areas are growing because urban areas are surrounded by rural areas. It doesn't quite make sense the way I'm putting it, but I'll use the example of Chicago. Chicago is HEAVILY Democratic, but the rural areas around it...like down here in Bloomington/Normal, are growing as well. And they are very, very Republican. And a big reason for that is the gun issue.

More to the point, yes, you're right that MORE urban voters want gun regulations- actually, most of us want gun regulations- *I* want gun regulations, just not as strong as some Democrats do- AND that there are more urban voters in the Democratic party. But, what's 65% times 65% (rough estimate)? That's 169/400... about 42.3% of Democrats, plus those rural Democrats who believe in strict gun restrictions (if it's fair to say that those 42.3% believe in STRICT gun restrictions). It's not that much.

In any case, I do think that we need to change our stance on guns. Again, I'm not against gun restrictions. I actually LIKE the new idea about registering bullets in California. I think that's a great thing to do (if we're in a civil war, what the hell kind of difference is it going to make?) But our anti-gun persona is really, really hurting us. Dean's stance is very strong, and will help to bring those voters back who should be Democrats.

AGAIN, though, PLEASE, this thread isn't about gun rights. It's about leadership.

[mandyky]

11. Only the fundies who think Bush is god are hopeless

Normal white Christians will take to Dean, if we can wean em from FOX and if like BGL says get the Party to speak common sense as well.

[Guaranteed]

14. Yes.

Yes yes yes.

They will love him. He speaks to them. I can't stress this enough.

They KNOW he's not fucking around. They know he's not weak- either on defense, OR politically.

[WildClarySage]

7. I didn't used to feel very strongly about the 2nd amendment

except to strongly dislike guns. Now that * is in office, though, I'm beginning to see the appeal of arming oneself against the threat of tyranny. This is *'s legacy.

[Guaranteed]

8. It's how they meant it in the first place.

This is what our founding fathers were worried about.

There was a very real reason they put it up in there in the 2nd spot. They weren't messing around.

The government belongs to the people, and the second the government forgets that the people need to have the ability to put up at least some kind of a fight.

But, you know this thread really isn't supposed to be about gun rights. It's supposed to be about leadership.

[mandyky]

10. he considers guns a state/local issue

VT is a rural state with a lot of hunters and outdoorsmen. They don't need the gun laws DC, NYC or LA need. I would not call him pro-gun rights, just pragmatic about it. He got an A rating from the NRA when he was governor.

[billbuckhead]

13. A soon as a Democrat starts talking "states right's", I want organize

a resistance. Dean also says that he sees no right to abortion in the Constitution. I guess it's no coincidence that Dean thought the Confederate flag was a-ok.

[Guaranteed]

15. Well, first off the Confederate flag IS A-OK as a 1st Amendment issue

on an individual level. Everyone has the right to speak their mind.

Secondly, I'd like to see a link to where Dean- a doctor who has consistently held out abortion as a matter between a patient and her doctor, at least recently (which I'm sure you know...we had huge discussions here)- characterizes abortion as not a personal right.

[billbuckhead]

22. So is the NAZI flag or the Taliban flag and their kids need healthcare too

Free speech isn't the issue. The issue is whether bigots, gun nuts and fundies can be won over to a progressive party and what do we give up in integrity to get them. It seems like urban people and minorities get sold down the river all the time in some vain effort to win over these bigots, gun nuts and fundies who will never vote in mass for us anyhow.

Remember, Al Gore would have won if all the votes were counted and John Kerry may have won Ohio.

[mandyky]

16. Obviously you dislike Dean

Dean never said he liked the confederate flag. The media blew his comment about wanting to be the candidate people who fly CF's would like. Here is his original thinking on that from his speech to the DNC winter meeting 03 -

Let me tell you something else I'm going to do. One of the things that I thought was terrific about Bill Clinton was that when he became president in 1992, he said that his Cabinet would look like the rest of America. And he did it. And he did it.


I want all of our institutions of higher learning, our law schools, our medical schools, our best universities to look like the rest of America. And I thought...


I thought that one of the most despicable moments of this president's administration was three weeks ago, when on national prime-time television, he used the word ``quota'' seven times. The University of Michigan does not now have quotas. It has never had quotas. Quotas is a race-loaded word, designed to appeal to people's fears of losing their jobs.


I intend to talk about race during this election in the South because the Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us. And I'm going to bring us together. Because you know what? You know what? White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals in the back ought to be voting with us and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either and their kids need better schools too.

Stop listening to MSM analysis of Dean.

[jaysunb]

17. Dean has repeatedly stated that

gun laws should be based on state laws because of the desparate differwnce in urban and rural cultures.

That should take care of your assertion and hope for him to come out for States rights. States rights have to be carefully nuanced and rehabilitated due to it's abuse by Dixiecrats and others throughout the 19 & 20th century to exempt themselves from Federal laws regarding the rights of Black people. I think Gov. Dean is well aware of that and is handling it correctly.

BTW: Billbuckhead is the handle of the freeper that knew three minutes after the broadcast of the 60 minutes ll show regarding the TANG memos, is it not. Not accusing, just curious.

[Guaranteed]

18. Kick nt

[billbuckhead]

20. I'm not him and he's known more than 3 minutes of imfamy

Every other advanced democracy has stronger gun regulations than the USA and less people murdered and less people in prison to show for it. If guns made us safe and free, America would be the freest safest place in the world, but they don't and we're not. The gun issue is code for race to most people who won't vote with the Dems for sensible gun regulations or for anything else for that matter. More Americans die from guns in America everyday than from the war in Iraq or the WOT. They don't don't get so much attention because they're usually not middle class whites.

[mondo joe]

19. Uh, there IS such a thing as states rights.

The issue has been badly used by some conservatives.

What's the problem with a dem recognizing they exist?

[billbuckhead]

21. The problem is that Dems have been fighting states rights since FDR

The problem with states rights is that it pushes problems from one state to another.

[mondo joe]

23. No, Dems have fought against abuse disguised as states rights.