There will be no draft! i.e. No daily mass protests of BushCo.

[Zinfandel]

The American people will never get together (except for a protest here or there) because there is no Draft. We don't want war and we don't want a Draft.

Remember, the 60's occurred and evolved from an unjust war our leaders lied about, for corporate & military interest. The Draft unified the young people with other oppressed people in our society. African-Americans, women, the poor, etc.

Rove/Cheney know, as long as there is NO draft there is no way the American people can or will ever really revolt as they did in the 60's.

Bush will continue to say and do as he pleases, to complete the fascist corporate agenda, assure that democrats can never get elected (Diebold) and to continue to kill and war profiteer for as long as he is in office and beyond. If Bush had only a 10% approval rating, it wouldn't matter. BushCo is going to do what the corporations need to assure their indisputable power for many years. There is no stopping them.

Perhaps the "Downing Street Memos" will be the uniting force we have all been waiting and screaming for... "Why aren't people doing anything? Why aren't they out in the streets yelling and screaming?"

The media has a huge interest in keeping the public dumb, its to theirs and BushCo advantage to continue to do so.

Our media, the same corporate investors & war profiteering in oil, weapons, war, etc... The "five mafia families" (as Randi Rhodes calls them) are the republican owned media, The corporate media... Murdoch-FOX News, General Electric-MMSNBC, CNBC, NBC, Time-Warner-CNN, CNN HEADLINE NEWS, Viacom-CBS & Disney-ABC (not to mention, right-wing CBN owned by Pat Robertson). The same right-wing that pounds the air waves with 99% of talk radio.

You might say, but, the military is not meeting it's recruitment goals, they are 40% behind in recruiting, they have to have a draft, because we know they plan to invade Iran, Syria and who knows who else.

That's why they are closing bases and consolidating military forces domestically and abroad. To fill the military ranks, that are not being fill...The economy just needs to worsen a bit more, allow more jobs going overseas, college tuition out of reach and no where else to go but the military or jail (Got to steal to eat).

The military indeed has a recruiting problem and it remains to be seen how much more imperialistic BushCo becomes and what they plan to do about it. But a Draft, that would be crippling and perhaps deadly to the Bush administration and would completely finish them off.

With a Draft, the young and all classes & demographics would then, absolutely revolt.

Just as you see...tens of millions of angry people across this country, yet nobody in the streets daily, no central gathering issue. (Except for the Internet which pacifies us and helps get out ones frustration and keeps us from pouring out into the streets).

There are hundreds of reasons & issues this fascist administration has dictated and shoved down our throats, war, destruction of the environment, "Patriot" ACT, electronic voting machines, tax cuts for the rich, etc. etc...

And they will continue this same lying greedy corporate agenda....

Yet, everyone is bewildered, "why aren't people screaming in the streets" As long as the American people aren't starving and their bellies are full, there will be no daily mass protests or revolts.

Only hunger and a Draft will unite people and get them on to the streets, Shit, they stole elections and were still sitting behind our keyboards.

Rove knows very well, it would all end tomorrow if they reinstated a draft.

That's why they will be no draft.

[katmondoo]

1. Does that also mean no more wars?

It doesn't seem as though we have enough troops to invade Iran or any other country.

[radar]

14. Hehe

They* can't hold onto much longer all the things they've got their hands on without a lot of new warm bodies to fill the ranks.

*Maybe I should say "we" - the US military commitments worldwide.

...................................................................
"...To his worried subordinates, the outspoken Heinrici seemed headed for certain trouble. As the commander of the Oder front, the last major line of defense between the Russians and Berlin, he would be constantly under the supervision of Hitler and the 'court jesters,' as one of Heinrici's officers called them. Heinrici had never been a sycophant, had never learned to varnish the facts; how could he avoid clashing with the men around the Fuhrer? And everyone knew what happened to those who disagreed with Hitler...."
THE LAST BATTLE by Cornelius Ryan, Simon & Schuster, March 1966

[ElectroPrincess]

19. Gee, ya know those billions only go so far ...

Mercenaries R Us will not fill all the gaps. Bush-Co needs ample cannon fodder from the masses.

I fear that we all will suffer ... around the world sooner rather than later due to all the propaganda and hatred. Notice that I did NOT designate "Terrorism" because that is just an offshoot of generations of pure hatred of "others" = those who your dear leaders deem as *evil.*

The draft will come because the War Machine and it's supporters can't control their greed and arrogance. They need cannon fodder to throw at the enemy while Mercs, and specialized civilian contractors test out their new fangled toys (weapons' systems).

Their arrogance will prove to be their (and hopefully NOT OUR) undoing, i.e., both the Neo-Cons and the Right Wing Fundy Freaks. :nuke:

[yellerpup]

2. Great post!

Kick and recommended!
:kick:

[JuniorPlankton]

3. Have to agree with you

Draft would make some of the chicken hawks think a bit. And they hate that!

:kick:

[librarycard]

4. Why do Europeans and Asians so easily come together in protest?

They're not being drafted, they have cradle to grave health care, great unemployment benefits, long vacations, all the things Americans lack. Most European and Asian countries will protest at the drop of a hat--Italy, Spain, France, Germany, South Korea, Indonesia, Philippines, Japan--yet not the US.

Why?

[babylonsister]

6. The main reason is because they are small countries

with good public transportation; people can GET to one spot more readily.

[librarycard]

10. So, the anger is there in the states

but it has no way to vent, despite cheaper gasoline to get to one spot?

[babylonsister]

17. Well, there's excessive anger on this board, and other

boards all over, but they are primarily liberals and progressives who feel betrayed (though I read more and more stories on DU about how the anger is branching out to lots of other people who don't necessarily fit those labels). My point was that if you live in CA or TX or OR or any other far-flung state and there's a planned function in DC, it's almost impossible to get that far for a day of protest for most people. And gas is not cheap for us any longer. It's starting to increase again with the increase in oil-again. Also, the media isn't helping at all by being just about mum on this whole situation, so some that could/would attend might not even know about it at this point, and won't until it's too late.

[Ysolde]

8. Maybe because they care for others

more than we do? Europe is actually very small and densely populated compared to the US, so they've always had different in their midst. Maybe that makes them more tolerant and more empathic than we are (generally speaking). It could also be that they still have large and strong labor unions and they are used to striking and protesting more so than folks here are.

[tridim]

11. Because the population in Europe is much more dense

and centralized than in the United States. That's my theory at least.

Traveling from Colorado to DC is very different than traveling from Hamburg to Berlin.

[Ysolde]

5. You make good points...

You especially made me think about how the Internet "pacifies" us by letting us vent and deal with our frustrations. I couldn't live without web access for real news (nothing but nusak here), but maybe the rest of it isn't as beneficial (you know giving us the illusion of making progress when we may not really be)? Good food for thought!

[Quakerfriend]

7. Agree 100%! However, I believe that if gas went up to $5/gal

that could cause some revolt.

I could not believe how peeved the repugs got when gas was getting up above $2.40.

[nolabels]

9. I mistrustful of projection mostly, but did you catch this?

White House rejects call for Iraq pullout timetable

Mon Jun 13, 2:45 PM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The White House rejected calls for setting a precise timetable for a US withdrawal from
Iraq, even as a new poll showed almost six in 10 Americans want at least a partial pullout of US forces.
ADVERTISEMENT

"We will leave when we complete the mission," spokesman Scott McClellan said a day after a representative in US
President George W. Bush's Republican party said he would push legislation fixing a firm schedule for such a withdrawal.

"We are not going to stay a day longer than what is necessary. But what we're working to achieve in Iraq is vital to peace and security for generations to come," said McClellan.

Representative Walter Jones (news, bio, voting record), a North Carolina Republican, said on ABC television Sunday that he would introduce a bill calling for a firm timetable for withdrawing US forces from Iraq.
(snip)
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050613/pl_afp/usiraqwhouse
http://www.antiwar.com/

[SteppingRazor]

12. Completely agree.

You could easily make the case that, were it not for the draft, the 1960s would've looked pretty much like the 2000s... just a bunch of people occasionally hearing of body counts and shrugging their shoudlers.
Without the draft, the '60s wouldn't have happened -- certainly, at the very least, not the way it did. And the last thing any Republican wants is a return to 1968.

[AndyTiedye]

30. They Didn't Own the News Back Then

There was a diversity of viewpoints represented in the news media.
That is no longer the case. Most people get nothing but propaganda now,
and they tend to believe it. THAT is the big difference.

The draft might cause a few protests, but it wouldn't end the war --
far from it, it would be the means by which it could continue and
expand for decades.

It is also the means by which martial law could be imposed.

Without the draft, all their plans for empire go nowhere.

[demgurl]

13. Completely DISAGREE

They are getting very thin on people fighting over in Iraq. I have read stories of retired 70 year old doctors being sent over! They have done everything they can but the way it is going they have no choice but to start a draft.

They have already started preparing the people for it by stating it is up to us and if we do not let them talk to our kids or if the schools keep the recruiters out then we have no one to blame but ourselves when our children are taken through selective service. This talking point has been out there for about four months now.

They have already divided the country between the left and the right. They have made it so many of us will not even talk to each other. So, it should be no surprise for us when the selective service is active and the RW hate shows start talking about how it is all our fault that this is happening. We own the 'MSM', we protest, we 'protect' our children from the big bad military and now we have really done it. They would not have to send their kids overseas if it were not for us. They have already set it in motion that it is not their fault and they have tried for several years to avoid this despite what the dems have been doing to thwart their efforts.

The RW sheeple will not question this. They have not questioned anything so far. The RW has them in such a state of anger that they will never listen to us no matter how hard we try.

If there will be any protests over the selective service it will be about us and how we caused this. They will never admit their mistake of electing a monster to office. It will never be their fault. They have already set these wheels in motion and now the next act of the play begins......

[Coventina]

15. Now THAT is frightening

And I wouldn't be surprised to see that meme start going around.

"It's the traitorous liberals that kept us from succeeding in Iraq. It is their fault your son/daughter/husband/wife/loved one is in danger."

[LaPera]

16. I have to say "demgurl" your wrong!, Five long Bush years still no draft,

A draft will indeed end the Bush administrations strangled hold on the media, a draft will mean major protests and the media couldn't ignore daily mass protest, a draft would more than likely spell doom to Bush and the republicans. They know this very well. I can't believe they want that.

I can't believe with over a million three or so in the military right now, (though recruiting down) and thousands upon thousands are still joining each month, that they really need a draft? These seem to be obstacles they continue to overcome, like, keeping people in uniform longer, closing bases to condense troop size, less & less civilian jobs, more & more technical weaponries used in place of troops, more contractors (paid killers) than ever are signing up for big bucks, etc...

I must disagree with you , So far no draft. we'll see!

[demgurl]

26. I contend they have been waiting for the 06' elections.

They will try to hold off if possible. The thing is, you have not seen a draft yet because it took a while to get to this point but they desperately need people now. They will try to hold off is possible but I heard these talking points just the other day on NPR. I did a search for my post because several people responded and said they had heard the same type of thing and even gave the name of a general I think it was who was saying this. I searched for my post but I believe the new adjustments made, just today, made them vanish. The right has been spreading this and they are preparing to lay it all in the laps of the Left.

Why do you think they are doing these talking points if this is not the way they are planning on going? We have always had the edge on seeing what they will do by listening to their talking points. Let's not go deaf now. The Bush regime never does anything without something behind it. I can only imagine one reason why they are spreading this talking point.

They did not need this five years ago or even three years ago. The fraudulent occupation only started more recently than that and now they are suffering. I have read articles where they do not even have the extra manpower to bring in the amazing number of A.W.O.L. soldiers they have. They are starting to hurt and there are two alternatives, they can do a selective service OR they can withdraw. They put all of these plans into motion just to take control of the oil, do you honestly think they are going to give up now? Add in their God complex and whether a draft would bring then down or not, they believe if it is framed the right way it will not. They have the treasure and anyone is naive if they think it will be given up any time soon.

[ElectroPrincess]

21. Oh, no, I don't agree at all ...

Despite the fact that I love to joke about the kool-aid drinking working class Right Wingers, these folks are FAR from stupid.

When they hurt enough economically and they see a couple of neighbor's son's or daughter's come back in a body bag (or disfigured), rest assured, they'll promptly pull their head out of their butts and do what's right. Then, it will not matter about religious values, consider Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

It wasn't just us Liberals protesting out in the streets during the early 70s. There were a number of returning combat vets (remember Kerry's courage THEN?) and other returning military and family members that help provide the tipping point TO FORCE the politicians (both Dem and Rep) to pull our troops out of Vietnam.

The Right Wingers see things differently than us and have different buttons that can be pushed. However, like us, FAMILY and ECONOMIC SURVIVAL are all important.

When some of the more objective (I know I know, don't start) Right Wingers start seeing the "light of day", I for one will be happy to have them on OUR SIDE - To help force an end this illegal occupation of Iraq JUST LIKE we did it during Vietnam, i.e., Democrats and Republican, Working and Middle Class, FLATLY REFUSED TO SEND THEIR CHILDREN to fight the *ruling class's war.*

[dr.zoidberg]

29. I don't think it'll happen.

The draft won't happen because of two reasons: 1) The public still has a really bad taste in their mouths from Vietnam, 2) The military, especially the Army, has a REALLY bad taste in their mouths from Vietnam. That's pretty much the reason why I think that a draft won't happen.

[LunaC]

31. I'm in your camp

Bush has no intention of leaving Iraq any time soon and has said as much. They've already called up everyone possible then rotated them in and out of the war zone two and three times already. The Iraqi Army is slow to coalesce and U.S. recruitment is at an all-time low. Where are they going to get new soldiers for this war and the others they have planned if not through a draft? There's a reason they've been quietly staffing Selective Service Offices throughout the country.

[LaPera]

18. Can you still remember the eight years of peace and prosperity so long ago

during the Clinton presidency? When the biggest scandal was Clinton lying about getting a blow job from his girlfriend?

[kster]

20. I still hold out

hope that this cabal in the White House will be taken out from within the government. They don't need no media to take them out that way, and the media will be left yanking their chain.

Then the media will become our target.

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. For the most part, I agree, but there is a caveat.

Even with consolidation of bases and worsening employment, they will not come up with enough troops to fulfill the PNAC plan.

But if there was another 9/11, there would be a rush of recruitment, as well as a further crackdown on dissidents, and the machine would be ready to grind on for a little longer -- and possibly push through a new draft. A skills draft, to get the med techs, the computer experts, the linguists. They wouldn't start with a general draft, but they would ease us into it, while making very public examples of any who refused - show trials to scare the rest.

Once we're used to the idea of a draft again, it would expand.

Remember, the 'draft protests' were not about the draft; they were about the VN war. There was a draft, from before the beginning of WWII to the end of it; a short hiatus; then, from Korea to 1974. Only in the last five years of that time were there protests, not against the draft, specifically, but against the war. The people can be acclimatized to the idea of a draft, if they are not being asked to serve a blatantly unjust cause.

I have to wonder if the "there will be no draft, not ever" statements here are made by people who actually remember that time.

[gordianot]

23. Good thought provoking observation.

I have trouble seeing a scenario that would require manpower mobilization. Another attack the scale of 9/11 would be difficult given the current shadow enemy. Who do you fight, who do you invade? If there was a WMD attack lets say Iran, North Korea, Syria, the response would most likely be to respond in kind not mobilize. How would you goad North Korea to invade South Korea, by the time you start a draft the war is over or has gone nuclear. I do not think invasion of South Korea will invoke national fervor for a draft.

The 9/11 attack card may not work next time.

[demgurl]

27. You are right, the 9/11 card may not work next time....

But I think most people are still blind to the fact that that a lot of people, here, believe in MIHOP/LIHOP. They do not want to believe their government could ever be so evil as to manipulate them. I have had to work on hubby long and hard to get him to even partially see the light.

If it does not work next time, we do not have to worry because they will call a state of emergency and if we dare peep out of our houses to protest we will be tasared (sp?) this time or they will use that sound weapon to force all of us to disband.

It has been brought up, before, about whether cops will use these weapons on us if we dissenting and we saw what happened at the RNC with all of the false arrests. We see how much the law is valued when people wear a Kerry shirt and get arrested at a * rally. These people have no respect for us and will deal with us however they see fit. Don't forget that wonderful Patriot Act and how we can also disappear at any moment never to be heard from again.

[LunaC]

32. Another 911 would work against them

"Terrorism" is the only category they haven't fucked up in the polls......"We're fighting them in Iraq so we don't have to fight them here."

An "attack" on the U.S. would make them look very, very bad and the public would finally realize "These fuckers aren't protecting us from ANYTHING!"

[lonestarnot]

24. Well then what are they going to do? Let two men fend off

20K? If the war wears on longer than another 6 months, there WILL be a draft.

[Zinfandel]

25. Unfortunately, the sad part is, people are just waiting for the draft to

come to get people motivated and out into the streets.

As time goes on and on...people believing there's going to be a draft and then the outrage will begin.

And when the draft never comes, and missed opportunities wasted by waiting for it to unite the people is gone.

And we're left with this ultra right corporate run government, imperialistically invading countries for their resources and the killing and dying of innocent people and soldiers.

All while some just keep waiting & waiting for the draft to come, so as to be outraged enough and onto the streets.

:nuke:

[demgurl]

28. Thought I would add another talking point from the fundies....

Just found this in another thread :

"Christian" press: Hostile MEDIA to blame for bad military recruit figures

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3858858

I said it before and I will say it again, they are framing the reasons for the draft now. It will come and they are framing us and the media for it happening. I can hear poor Coocoobananas now saying that they have searched their hearts for every way possible to not have a draft but this is the only option they have left.

They will not come right out and blame us directly. They will say due to a shortfall in numbers and not enough access in the schools. The hate shows will speak 'the truth' for them.

Can you not hear Limpballs now? "Yes, my fuh-rends, of course we have come up with a shortfall. What do you expect with those commie loving pinkos who call themselves the left? They try and stop the military from doing their duty for our country and what happens? We are driven to a last resort of a draft. What do they care? Their 'hero', and my fuh-rends, I say that word knowing what these people call heros. Their hero evaded the draft by going to England and what did he do while he was there? He smoked pot! I would bet most of these people are talking about an underground railroad to get their young somewhere safe like Canada. They are leaving you to send your sons and daughters when they will not act like true citizens of this country and stand up to defend it.

Yes, fuh-rends, these are then same people who laugh when our military comes back in a box. They are gleeful, no matter who has to die, just to prove that our war on terror is an unjust war. They want us to fail. They would rejoice if another 9/11 happened and a couple of thousand more of our good men and women were to die. These are not our friends. They do not even deserve to share the same country and freedoms with us. We do not want people who wish harm on us just so they can jump up and down and say I told you so. Folks, they rejoice when this happens. I have seen it with my own two eyes."

I have heard these types of speeches from him before. He always says we root for a bad economy or for the war to fail and that we continue to do so. I know these people and they are slime. You watch what happens, the frame is in place.