OMG - I can't believe it - the bible-thumpers are really on a roll

[sickinohio]

These three about 14-year-old girls just knocked on my front door (here in a small town in northwest Ohio). I only heard a few words that they had to say - because immediately my heart was pounding and I wanted to throw their "flyers" at them. Anyway, I hear this knock, I go to the door, and they're all smiles and cheery, and they went into their spiel "Hi - we're with the Baptist Church in ___ ___, Ohio and we're here on a mission from Kentucky, and we're holding a (not sure what they said, maybe a Bible Revival) (my heart was pounding too much), down here at the park....That's when I said "No thank you, I'm a Democrat, pro-choice, pro-life, anti-war and I hate the death penalty". They didn't stay too long. On down to the neighbor's house they went. OMG - they're on a mission to take over our country. They're even sending the teen-agers from Kentucky up here to "save the nation". I knew these people were organized, but jeez, now I really see it!!! These people have become one big organized group. We need one big organized group!! We have to stop them NOW!! I'm afraid for our country!!

:scared:

[slackmaster]

1. My mom told me they even took over our old CHURCH

After we moved about 25 miles to a different home in 1978 she made an effort to remain a member of the church we had attended (more or less) since the early '60s. She gave up after about a year because the fundies had taken over.

[48pan]

2. Take a deep breath...

We've had Jehova's Witnesses for decades. Just say no.

[sickinohio]

4. True - I haven't seen much of them going door to door

lately, come to think about it. Advice taken and the deep breath worked. Thanks.

[matt819]

18. This is different

You're right. We've had Jehovah's Witnesses for ages (and in fact we had a visit from some the other day. We said no, they went away. As they have done and we have done for those same decades.

This is a democracy, a free country, and we somehow felt smug and self-righteous knowing that our freedoms allowed these folks to do their thing. Gosh, aren't we just so darned free.

But it's different today. We have fundies running the country, fundies increasingly intolerant of any other religions. We have the air force academy tacitly permitting the spread of evangelical christianity to the detriment of those who might believe otherwise, or those of might otherwise believe that religion, even if is their own, has no place in a service academy. Remember that quaint notion of the separation of church and state. This nation is well beyond the phase of laying the groundwork for the creation of a fundamentalist theocracy, a theocracy where non-believers may be tolerated, but they will never be accepted, will never have a role in this government, and whose bizarre view of the world will more and more rapidly erode sound science, secular education, etc.

If - and I'm sad to say this is a big if - we are successful in ousting these traitors from office in 2008, then it will take a generation at least to undue the damage they have done. If, for whatever reason, they retain power in 2008 and beyond, be prepared to kiss our vision of American goodbye. It will be gone. Yes, I know that others in past generations have made the same assertions, and we always seem to find a middle ground. No longer.

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. Tell them to go and volunteer to free the people in Iraq,

[cynatnite]

5. Ohio again

they're using kids to get that state red. It's blue as far as I'm concerned.

[sickinohio]

7. It's Blue as far as I'm concerned too - but why are they invading

us? Why are they focusing on use?? What's with all the crooked shit up here?

[Pharaoh]

14. they stole the eclection in OHIO

they're trying to infiltrate and save their sorry asses from the investigations that art coming....

[Sydnie]

6. Get some like minded friends

print this out and leaflet the cars visiting the revival with them while they are in the meeting.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/smell_the_fascism.pdf

Perhaps they will get more "saving" than they expected ... if they read it!

[sickinohio]

8. Great idea - I think I'll do that !!

Thanks!! We have to fight back somehow, and I'm not your greatest organizer - but I think I can manage that!!

[librechik]

9. I had a moment like that recently

saw the familiar White shirts and black ties wearing young guys at the door with their literature. Just screamed at them through the door "GO AWAY!!!"

not too eloquent--but haven't seen em since!

[Malva Zebrina]

10. well, there is somewhat of a movement on to try to "understand"

these Christians and to try and seduce them into our fold.

How that can be done, I don't have a clue. I find them arrogant and rude to invade the space and the home space of others and if they come back again you have a right to order them off your property permanently. I once raised my voice to both the Mormons and the Jehovah Witnesses to the point where they must have thought I was a crazy woman. The Mormons kept trying to get into my house--asking two or three times if they could come in, rather than stand on the porch. They didn't get within an inch of coming in.

There is no need to be polite to them. They even like it if you are not as it reinforces their persecution fantasies.

Threaten to call law enforcement after you tell them in no uncertain terms they are never to set foot again on your property again. You have the legal right to do that if they are offensive to you and you do not want them there.

They do NOT have the right to set foot on your property against your wishes.

I don't have an answer to this absurd invasion of people's space who do not appreciate it. No one has the right to tell you to get out of their way if you do not like it.

I abhor moving to the middle and ignoring the separation of church and state in order to win an election.

I am inclined to think that it must come from the liberal branches of the churches rather than from any political party.

If this invasion of a person's "space" and arrogance is taught from the pulpits, then something must be done to reverse the arrogance of that position in those churches to preserve the separation of church and state. The fools do not realize that once that is breached, they and their beliefs and their churches have lost their freedom of religion also. Jehovah Witnesses , according to their theology, do NOT vote. Yet they go about taking advantage of all of those who do vote to give THEM the freedom to practice their religion by marching upon private property to preach. If it were not for democracy and the people's vote to allow them that priveledge, they would not exist in this country. Other less democratic countries, forbid them to practice their religion and they love that persecution, I think. Yet, they have the arrogance to preach non voting as a part of their religion here in the country whose laws give them their rights because of a voting populace and a Consitutional democracy.

Sheesh

[politicaholic]

16. Hear hear!

I wish I had a porch. I would definitely spend some quality time in a rocking chair with a shot gun full of rock salt. Unfortunately I'm in an inner city highrise where the fanatics can't get past the doorman.

[donco6]

11. I'm DYING for someone like that to come to my house!

My tactic would be different. I'd sit on the porch step, talking calmly, acting interested, basically controlling the entire conversation.

"So Susie, do you think Jesus loves EVERYBODY in the WHOLE WIDE WORLD?" I'd ask. Suzy would squeal, nodding her head furiously. "Yes, Jesus loves everyobody!"

"Does Jesus love people in other countries - you know, like England or Mexico - places like that?"

"Yes, Everybody everwhere!"

"Do you think Jesus loves people in Iraq?" (I'd say EYE-raq, just to avoid confusion).

Susie pauses for a minute, "I guess so."

"So, Susie, do you think Jesus wants all those people to die? With all those bombs we're dropping and places we're shooting up with tanks and stuff? You know, little kids and mommies and daddies are getting killed every day because of what we're doing. Do you think Jesus wants that? Mommies and daddies dying, I mean?"

Susie tears up, little fundie chin quivering, "N-n-no!"

"No, Susie, I don't think so either. And I'll bet Jesus is really really sad that we're killing all those people. In fact, I'll bet he's going to send a lot of people straight to hell for doing that. Do you know what hell is, Susie?"

"It's where bad people go - with fire and weeping and 'gnashing of teeth.'"

I'm fairly confident Susie has no idea what gnashing is, but it sounds bad. "Yes, Susie. It's bad, really bad. You don't want to go there, do you?"

Susie shakes her little blond head, pigtails flying.

"Then I think you should go right home right now and pray that God will end this war so you won't go to hell. Can you do that for me?"

"Yes."

"Ok. You run along now and be a good girl. I don't want to see you down in that fiery pit, burning for all eternity, screaming and screaming and screaming . . . "

Susie dashes off down the street never to be seen again.

[sickinohio]

15. Jeez

Sure wish I could think that fast. I don't think of things like that until AFTER the fact - my blood is usually boiling too much at the time!!!

[Benhurst]

12. What are they doing up in Ohio? Have they run out of poor

people to tend and feed in Kentucky? I think not.

[politicaholic]

13. What a boring mission!

One would think that you were the perfect candidate for them to try to turn into another christian zombie.

Ohio...jeesh, could they try Indonesia or something? No imagination what-so-ever.

[stopbush]

17. I like to ask these types this:

"Are you talking about the ancient god who was known as the sun? Who was born of a virgin? Who was born on Dec 25? Who partook of wine and bread marked with a cross? The god who remained celebate and called his followers "brother"? Are you talking about the religion that spread across the ancient Roman world even to Britain?"

When they answer "Yes," I say, "Oh, you must mean this guy"...and I hand them this print out about the god Mithras...

http://www.taivaansusi.net/historia/mithraism.html

[Peace Patriot]

19. Karl Rove and his billion-dollar rightwing "think tanks" and the collusive

news monopolists have given a lot of thought to how to convince you that there is a big rightwing surge in the country. In fact, the vast majority of people in this country are progressive and tolerant and peaceful, and resoundingly rejected Bushism in the last election--possibly by as much as a 20% margin, certainly in at least the 7% to 10% range. Bush's approval rating is down to 35% (!!!), and has been dismal for over a year. 60% to 70% of Americans disapprove all major Bush policies, foreign and domestic. Bush is not just unpopular, he is extremely unpopular. And it's not just personal dislike, it extends to all his policies. My favorite: 63% of Americans disapprove to torturing prisoners UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES! These are not people who are easily bamboozled by fear-mongers.

This is the country you know and love. It has not changed. It has just been disenfranchised.

The people you fear are just the same old rightwing Christian fanatics that we've always had among us, only greatly trumpeted by the media, and given delusions of power by the Bush Cartel's election theft.

I, too, sometimes feel that inner icy fear--fear of witchburners, and scapegoaters, fear of the Inquisition, fear of small, mean minds with too much power, fear of the centuries of religious war that devastated Europe, and that led to our Founders' adamant commitment to the separation of church and state.

Fear. That's their coin. Don't give into it. And know that this phony ascendancy of fascists and fanatics and stupidity is a very deliberately created illusion. Propaganda. Brainwashing. It is not real. And it is serving the interests of massive thievery, mass murder and the ugliest power-mongering the world has seen since Hitler and the Nazis.

And just as Jefferson had the history of Europe's religious wars to consult, as he formulated the First Amendment, we too have that history, plus all that has happened since then, to instruct us.

Have faith in your fellow Americans! Really, have faith in them. Most of them see what you see, and are wondering why their views are disregarded and why these fanatical views are put forward. And have faith in the human longing for justice and fairness, for peace, for tolerance, for all the ideals of democracy.

I am not saying, be oblivious. If lies and injustice arise, we must fight them. Just don't give in to this thing, this fear that seems to run in our bloodstream--the fear of religious tyranny. It's very deep in our culture and in us--which is probably a good thing. It's an early warning system. Our antennae for this kind of oppression are ever on the alert. But do know that it is being deliberately stirred up and played upon. I can hear it in the rightwing radio rants. They are doing their damnedest to stir primitive hatreds. If it's not against the Jews (which it once was), it's against the blacks. If it's not against the blacks, it's against the gays. If it's not against the gays, it's against Mexican immigrants--or women's libbers, or any number of scapegoats. At one time, it was communists and reds and pinkos. These powermongers always, always utilize scapegoats.

But credit our history and our people for overcoming the hatemongers and Christian fanatics time and again. Have faith! We will make it through this dark hour in our history, and we will be a better people for it.