Imperial Senate about to pass law against "Flag Desecration"

[UdoKier]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20050615/ts_usatoday/voteonflagdesecrationmaybecliffhanger

Wouldn't a law against desecrating the fucking CONSTITUTION be more in order about now?


:mad:

[lectrobyte]

1. our symbols are now more important than the things they symbolize.

Seems like that was one of the characteristics of fascism.

[Igel]

2. Call me a literalist, but I have the same quibble with

all the "Koran desecration" bloviating.

You can't desecrate something that isn't sacred, and to call it desecration asserts it's sacred.

I couldn't call "Piss Christ" desecration because I don't consider a crucifix sacred, I can't call "Qur'an mishanding" desecration because I don't consider the Qur'an sacred, and I can't call flag burning desecration because I don't consider the US flag to be sacred.

If I "accidentally" drop my copy of Gladkov's "Cement" in the john, I don't refer to it as desecration (at least not of the novel).

[Kraklen]

3. Context?

Hello... the Koran desecration is important because it's being used as psychological torture in a U.S. prison camp.

You don't have to be a muslim to be upset over that, just a decent human being.

[SmokingJacket]

4. Exactly -- there's no US law against Koran desecration, nor should

there be.

But the govt. should not be in the business of insulting entire religious groups, or groups of any kind -- especially as a form of torture.

It should be legal for a citizen to burn an American flag, or an Iraqi flag, as a matter of freedom of speech, or a bible or whatever.

But our govt should not burn an Iraqi flag or otherwise desecrate symbols important to large groups of people, not as a legal matter, but as a matter of decency.

This is not a subtle point -- it's pretty obvious.

[NYPagan]

5. Decency?

You expect decency from the butchers of washington?

Don't be silly.

[Kraklen]

7. No.

But I expect decency from my fellow democrats. Hell, I demand it.

[Igel]

18. The report that is constantly quoted to show mishandling

and "desecration" is enlightening in the paucity of incidents and the details of what's done to prevent and identify them, and make it official Army policy to punish the "desecrators".

The US government should take reasonable steps to prevent giving offense. But when it's required to engage in self-humiliation to prevent offense, then it's a difficult call, and can easily cross the line, to my thinking, in not only saying the people are entitled to not be offended, but entitled to having non-believers show that they accept the strictures placed on them by the believers ... when believers themselves don't accept the strictures in many cases.

That degenerates into absurdity. I am amused by absurdity, but only in small quantities.

The military provides the Qur'ans, halal food, arrows pointing to Mecca, chaplains, and sufficient equipment to ensure that non-Muslims rarely come into contact with their idols. It need not worship them.

[Kraklen]

22. Basically, you're using a first amendment argument...

to defend the mistreatment of prisoners at Guantanemo.

And I find that really, really low.

[SmokingJacket]

9. Expect? No. Demand? Yes.

Welcome to DU!

[Igel]

13. No context. I might call it mishandling,

but I'm not going (in my view) implicitly agree to their terms.

How many progressives considered the picture of the virgin Mary with elephant dung on it to be desecration, or "Christ Piss" to be desecration? It's not the phrasing they used. And Christ Piss, at the very least, was meant to be offensive.

I may say "the mishandling of the image of the virgin Mary, Qur'ans, and crucifix, considered desecration by believers....", but I'm unlikely to buy into their worldview.

[Kraklen]

14. If the Christians are being tortured...

in a muslim prison camp, then they've got cause to be complaining about desecration, among other things.

This isn't just about the desecration of the Koran, that's just the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Massacure]

6. Don't forget to call your senators!

[BringEmOn]

8. Ok, then, arrest this criminal!

[FreedomAngel82]

11. Yep

That goes against the flag as well and is more of a no-no then flag burning. Flag burning is also a way to properly dispose of the flag. You should never throw away a flag. Oh and all those tshirts with flags and bandanas etc. need to go as well.

[FreedomAngel82]

10. Oh good grief!!

People obviously don't know jack shit about flag burning. This goes against freedom of expression. So what's going to happen now. If someone burns a flag are they going to jail? :mad: And yeah what about fucking with our Constiution and Bil of Rights? Oh that doesn't matter but we have to save the flag. :mad:

[MadHound]

12. Oh geez, once again we see the two party/same corporate master

System of government going against the wishes of the majority of Americans. Sixty three percent of Americans are against any flag amendment, yet Dems are going across the aisle to support this BS. Apparently the symbol of democracy is more important to these fools than actually practicing it:eyes:

[LightningFlash]

15. You don't think that...

Burning the flag is unpatriotic! :eyes: :eyes:

No more censoring of free speech. If people are angry with america, its not because of anything but its government.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

16. If such a law is passed...

I will be forced to go out and desecrate a flag. I have never had any inclination to do so, and have always felt a bit sqeamish when seeing it done, but it is protected free speech in my book.

The minute that "law" is passed it must be broken so that a court challenge can be started. :mad:

[me b zola]

25. Part of me agrees with you

But I also believe that that is what they want us to do to paint us as unAmurkin. Just one more distraction to keep from having to talk about Iraq, the economy, SS, & health care.

I am sick for what they have done to this country, and the abyss that they are plummeting us into.

[DinahMoeHum]

17. Sheesh, they want to make our flag into some kind of IDOL. . .

That'll make the Jehovah's Witnesses happy. . .NOT !!!

Besides, we already have an offense for burning a flag for reasons other than etiquette for proper disposal. It's called VANDALISM.

:mad:

[annabanana]

19. so all those shirts, teddy bears, shorts, tablecloths,

baseball caps,pillowcases and everything else all stars and stripes will finally be illegal?

good... I'm sick of that crap

[FreedomAngel82]

21. If this bill passes yes

Because that goes against the flag and all that.

[Carni]

20. Gee, Hope this applies to the A-holes with flags waving from their SUVS

Most of the time the flags are faded and ripped and every now and then I see one laying on the road that has fallen off some buttheads antenna.

[Norquist Nemesis]

23. Haven't we been through all of this before??? US v Eichman

http://www.pbs.org/jefferson/enlight/flag.htm

The Issue Before the Court:

Is the action of burning an American flag within the context of a public protest constitute "expressive conduct," an idea that falls under the freedom of speech protection of the First Amendment?

Supreme Court Ruling: The burning of the American flag is considered "symbolic speech" and is protected under the First Amendment.

[Independent_Liberal]

24. A law against flag desecration?

I don't know why flag desecration is such a concern to them right now. I agree a law against desecrating the Constitution would be more important.

[TimeChaser]

26. If this law passes...

I will personally organize a flag burning ceremony in which an old flag is burned upon a funeral pyre and we all gather to morn the death of democracy and our first amendment rights.