As an Atheist, I now know god exists.

[salinen]

And not because I saw the light, quite the contrary, I saw the darkness. There can only be one answer to the evil that currently exists within the born-again community - Satan. Satan has penetrated the church. After all, wouldn't the corruption of the "faithfull" be
his greatest victory?

Look at the record

Champions of War
Condemners of Everyone other than christians
Desire to control the world
Complainers of aid to third world

I've never spoken to god or christ. But I've seen the devil.

[Kikosexy2]

1. The ..

master of deception---he will speak Godly and Christ-like but do works of evil and blasphemy...you sure got it right on the Right!

[FreedomAngel82]

20. Exactly

There's even warnings in the Bible of this happening. That he will be a false prophet. This is why the Pope thought Bush was the anti-Christ. Somedays I wonder myself. He's so full of evil you can feel it and it's awful. There's so much darkness around him.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

43. its not possible that Bush is the anti-christ

see, the Anti-Christ fools the world. Bush doesnt fool anybody except a small portion of undereducated pig-fuckers that comprise less than 1 percent of earth's population.

[salinen]

47. pig-fuckers

he he.

[FreedomAngel82]

52. True true

He is pretty evil though. *shudder* But I can understand how one might think he is.

[jbnow]

64. That's such a good point

He fools his little bit of the world, the part he tries to stay in, but as egocentric as our country is we aren't the world. It does rule bush out. Though...

he is anti-Christ...that is, you take what Christ (man or myth) stood for and he is the opposite of that.(feeding the hungry, providing care and shelter for the needy, not judging)

But what he is, is nothing new. If we want to go biblical just look at what Jesus says about the Pharisees. He damned only the Pharisees (well called them vipers and sons of Satan) for putting burdens on the weak and poor while they don't lift a finger, taking the homes of widows, acting clean and holy outside while being rotting hypocrites inside...

bush and company make sense in their horrible way. They benefit from the evil that they do, they profit in money and power. But the whatever % who admire them so much and do not profit from it...a mystery.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

66. absolutely

an archetype of the anti-christ. i completely agree with you. great post.

[Bake]

68. And yet he is the leader of the greatest power on the planet.

The rest of the 1% don't matter. They're sheep, being taken to the slaughter.

He fooled enough of the people to seize power. That's the point.

Bake

[Tux]

75. Pig fuckers?

Damn, that has been my noun to describe fundies to my dad who finally understood that employers questions of why I attended a MI college, how MI voted, and why I didn't grow up in this town. He is beginning to see religious persecution over political creeds. Stupid pig fuckers.

[Catherine Vincent]

79. lol! So true!

[donheld]

2. If there is no God as you say

What makes you go on with life?

[rzemanfl]

4. Fear of death, same as anybody else, except it is permanent

death.

[NEDem]

5. ?

Why must one believe in a God in order to have the will to live?

[patrice]

32. That's what I was thinking.

[salinen]

7. Huh?

I hope that you're not suggesting that without a chance for an afterlife, life has no meaning? I have pondered that the ego involved in believing that man-ape deserves everlasting life, is the cause of violence, war, and environmental destruction.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

21. If one has to frame things in the context of Satan or The Devil

Ego makes the most sense, in logical terms, to me.

[sybylla]

10. Life itself

with all the good and the bad that can come our way, is remarkable in and of itself. I believe we exist accidentally, yet I believe that as long as we are here, we should exist to the aid, comfort and betterment of all.

Why would I walk away from life and the opportunity to support my family, my community and my world merely because I don't hold a belief in your god?

You really ought to step outside that church once in a while.

[donheld]

I haven't been to church in 11 years

but i sometimes wonder if nothing comes after this life, when it gets painfull what makes some go on?.

Sorry but i've not been feeling the best lately. and i want to know how others deal with these questions.

edit to add: we had a co-worker take his own life less than three weeks ago. It hit me really hard.

[LaurenG]

23. If it makes you feel any better

I believe that energy is all we are anyway. Since you can't kill energy I figure you have to go somewhere.



My dad died suddenly in January, I dreamed about his death for two weeks before it happened. It used to wake me up in tears. I know you'll feel better soon. I am very sorry for your loss and sympathize with the pain you are in.

[indie_voter]

62. Life always has the potential to get better

Supreme being or no supreme being.

I don't believe in god. Neither did my dad, who died this past December. When he realized he was going to die he told me "don't worry too much, we're all organic matter" Of course I worried and cried and will miss him forever.

I wish I did believe I would see him again but I don't believe I ever will. He lives on in my mother, me, my siblings and our children. That is a small comfort but not the same as hugging him, talking with him and yes, even fighting with him.

I do take joy in many things, small and large.

There are moments when it seems like nothing will ever get better, but life is not static.

My deepest condolences on the loss of your friend.

[Tux]

76. I believe in a Divine Being

Yet I hold that life has no meaning other than to live. Our Universe exists for the sake of existing. Unlike fundies, I don't claim to know as much as Deity so I could be wrong. I figure, we're alive so make the best of it and take care of each other. Without that, what do we have? What makes me go on? Simple really. To enjoy another day. As for the afterlife, let's say I had experiences when using ki that I have a feeling that part of us continues after death.

[libertypirate]

16. Breathing, eating, and sleeping.... Same as all the other freaking

animals on this planet.

[POAS]

18. If there ia a God, as you say

How can you go on with life knowing that he created so much evil.

[salinen]

22. Well I'm not god's Mom

[FreedomAngel82]

25. Here's the thing with that

God gave us freewill and thus choice and consequences. If he didn't want any evil in the world and us to learn and grow as souls he would've made us all robots. That's the whole thing. Bush and his gang of thugs didn't have to do anything they did but they CHOSE to do it and thus the negative empacts on the world and creating a negative vibe also known as evil. It's all about what YOU decide to do. Not God. God loves you so much he gave you the choice to know him or not.

[POAS]

28. So your saying God did NOT create the Devil?

Then who did?

[FreedomAngel82]

33. Read post twenty-five

[POAS]

34. Thanks for the untimate circular arguement.

[Mr_Spock]

40. Welcome to religious speak 101

It's the first thing they teach you - decieve and confuse :D

[POAS]

65. Dare I say it.............. yes I think I will.....

The Devil made them do it!

[Warren DeMontague]

71. So did "Bob".

And Yet Ye Are So Poor Of Spirit, Not Only Do Ye Not Know That Ye Not Know He, Ye Do Not Know That Ye Do Not Know That Ye Do Not Know He. Yet He Still Loveth You Much, Or At Least Coveteth Your Spouse and Wallet.

[donheld]

31. I never ment to imply there is a god

Quite frankly i don't think i need to worry about whether there is a god or not.

edited for grammer

[POAS]

36. I'm Ok with that, thanx

[lateo]

19. Why shouldn't we go on with life?

God is the ONLY reason to live?

Please.

[RandomKoolzip]

27. That's some fucked up reasoning.

I've been an atheist all my life. I'm comfortable with ambiguity, even the ambiguity involved with not knowing what happens after I die. Frankly, I don't give a fuck what happens to me after I die; it's what I do while ALIVE that matters.

Are you implying that life is worthless unless one is religious? That's pretty fucked up.

Existentialism is not the same thing as depression. I don't believe in a god, and I'm perfectly happy. Suicide is not the alternative to belief in a deity.

On edit: read your next post, and I apologize for your loss.

Honestly, what keeps me going in spite of overwhelming odds is the knowledge that there is no alternative to sentience.

[Mr_Spock]

37. Are you saying you can't have a desire to live if you don't believe in God

That's one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen posted on the internet. Unbelievable - what did you mean by that anyway - I hope it wasn't what I posted in my title?

[donheld]

39. I'm saying sometimes it can be hard to see the point of our existence.

Don't we all wrestle with the meaning of life sometimes?

[Mr_Spock]

42. Yeah, and I can see how making up an omnipresent overseer can be comforting

...but ultimately we deceive ourselves. I believe in God - God is the unifying Good force that keeps man from destroying himself. God is Good - there is a reason that the word was derived that way. You can paint a face on it and make it into a human form if it pleases you - but there exists no single "entity" that oversees our individual existences - surely you can see that requires a form of insanity to believe in such a thing. I prefer to see things as they are - unlike Republicans who want to put our fate into the hands of a "faith" - yeah - let's put the fate of the human race into the hands of a omnipotent magician - um, I don't think so!

[donheld]

46. Of course we deceive ourselves with it

Not just with God, but also with the opposite "the Devil"

[Mr_Spock]

48. Yeah, the devil is the lingering doubt we all have

It tempts us because we know in reality it doesn't matter what we do - ultimately we only have to answer to ourselves for what we can tolerate in our own behavior. Only good parenting and a good helping society can ensure that the right balance is instilled into our children - good (God) will always win because otherwise life becomes intolerant and we cannot survive that way.

[mondo joe]

45. If the only reason to live is a god that's pretty pathetic.

Honestly.

[jokerman93]

49. Huh?

Do people need an invisible buddy in the sky in order to want to live?

If so, they're deeply depressed and need to get out more. Life is sweet enough at times to be it's own reward IMHO. Don't need no monolithic sky god to smack me when I'm down and make fantastic promises! No indeed.

[Mr_Spock]

59. Hey, you gotta problem with my invisible buddy in the sky?

He told me to rank all over you if you doubt his existence :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Warren DeMontague]

63. What?

What?


What?


What?


So, if I don't believe in the exact same all powerful, invisible man-in-the-sky that you do, I have no reason to be alive?

People managed to survive in our current state for about 3 million years (I mean, if you accept that wacky "science" stuff) before the concept of Jehovah as articulated by Western Judeo-Christian religion appeared. Of course, maybe back when people only had Zeus or Apollo or Athena to turn to, there was far deeper existential angst than there is today. But apparently those people "went on" with life, at least until the Christian Church forceably wiped out the elements of paganism that they didn't co-opt.

I know alcoholics who can't imagine any value to any life that doesn't have a drink in it's hand at all time. I'm not saying your religion has become a drug of that magnitude, but if you can't visualize any reason for anyone to live who doesn't share your belief system, maybe you should try thinking outside of the box once in a while.

[expatriate]

69. Huh?

You have to have a God to live?

Life is beautiful in many ways. There are great rewards to living. There is a purpose to living for many people - and they don't need a God to make it all worthwhile.

As an atheist who was far more clever than I once said, "Can't I enjoy the beauty of the garden without having to believe there are fairies at the bottom of it?"

[patrice]

3. Evangelism is the Anti-Christ. n/t

[Kikosexy2]

6. it's...

evilangelism---but I agree with you.

[patrice]

17. Yeah - EvilAngel = Fascism

Unfortunately they've dressed that EvilAngel up as an Eagle.

[FreedomAngel82]

26. It's all in how you use it

If you're like the rightwing whacko's who don't believe in reality and science etc. then you intern use it for evil. But if you use it and are still real (such as global warming and Terri Schavio) and used your brain and all that every once in a while it wouldn't feel so evil. It's all in the people who participate and what they do and don't do. Again, it comes down to freewill and choice and consequences.

[LaurenG]

8. Unfortunately

Most philosophers concur that you cannot have one without the other.
Perhaps one created the other. These people are mislead. The sheep are misled by fearful overly emotional people. These people haven't learned yet what Christ thought was very important. Do unto others...
You will know mine by their fruits... These and greater things shall you do also... You cannot get to the father except through me, me being the Christ consciousness.

They are pulling us into darkness because they have no light in them. "Bless their hearts" as they say in the south.

[FreedomAngel82]

30. Have you ever

read the story of how the devil came to be? He was once an angel. He didn't have a very high job but not a low job either. As I mentioned before God gave us freewill. Choice and consequences. The devil was once a good angel but he had jealousy and all these other negative vibes in his heart and he did bad things so to punish him (his consequence) God sent him away and to hell. Ever since then the devil has been going after what God considers good and positive. It's a battle between the light and the dark and has been this way for so long. It's all about what's in your heart. Sometimes bad things happen to people and they become so angry and jealous and whatnot they become hateful of God and their life becomes a wreck etc. If you take the bad with the good and know you can change your life around from the negative to the positive things will definitley be different. The negative vibes go where there's negativity. Why? Because it's easier to get to someone who is negative (depressed etc) because you feel so bad you just don't know these feelings are around. I've had experiences with this but luckily I changed how I was feeling at the time and it helped. I didn't let the negative vibes overtake my soul/heart.

[LaurenG]

35. Yeah, Lucifer

God's brightest "star" he got too arrogant and God said, "Buddy your outa here". I totally agree with your idea that similar energy groups up together. If you're positive you'll attract more of that. I also believe that's what happens to your soul or energy once you die. You can't kill energy so I think you just gather with folks with energy like yours. Who knows for sure though.

[FreedomAngel82]

51. Yep

What you're thinking of when you die is soul clustering groups. You have a group of people who you travel with throughout various lives. Sometimes they're in your actual life on Earth and sometimes they're a guide. You still eventually all meet up sooner or later if it's meant to be. That's why when you're depressed to do things that brighten you up. Sometimes you do need medicine (like if you have an unbalance in your brain and it can't be cured with positive energy) but whenever I'm down I surround myself with positive things. Like music I like, family, friends or whatever. When you're down is when the negatives come around and what you decide to do is what brings about that consequence whether for the good or bad.

[LaurenG]

58. yes nt

[Warren DeMontague]

85. I read a story about a girl from Kansas

a cowardly lion, a tin man, and a scarecrow.. it had a scary green witch, a magical wizard, and flying monkeys in it, too.

But I didn't think it was non-fiction.

[stopbush]

9. Can't agree. You're not giving proper credit to the despots.

Why attribute to supernatural malarky human attributes that have been in plain sight throughout history?

[salinen]

11. For comedy

You are correct, but you'll get no laughs with that routine.

[RalphReedsWreckedEm]

12. I respect your beliefs

Those who seek have my respect.

Those who claim to know everything do not.

[Rebellious Republican]

13. You forgot this on your list.............

Police: Church sex abuse case may involve 24 children

Louisiana pastor arrested and charged with child rape
Monday, May 23, 2005 Posted: 6:15 AM EDT (1015 GMT)

(CNN) -- Police have arrested the pastor of a defunct church in Ponchatoula, Louisiana, his wife and six former congregants in a sexual abuse case involving as many as 24 children, authorities said.

http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/22/louisiana.church/

[salinen]

15. The list is so long

that it's overwhelming and obvious.

[shance]

14. I like your posts Salinen.

You're not afraid to say what you think.

I think we've all seen the devil. Some just like to dress him/her up in white gown and place a halo over the head.

Problem is the gown never fully hides it's tail and the horns just keep popping out from underneath the wig.

No matter how people want to deny the truth, it's the one thing that makes me believe there is a God, because it's stronger and more dominant than the evil that tries to oppress and suffocate it.

Truth (reality) can never be terminally suffocated or buried. It will always find its way to rise from the ashes.

However, it can be ignored, which is the end of all compassion, living, love and civilization as we know it.

Ignorance and denial (and cowardice) are the worst assaults we can inflict on the truth, and ultimately ourselves.

[dqueue]

24. you should read...

You should read Jeff Wells at Rigorous Intuition. Maybe. He's a great writer. Topically, he's all over the place. One theme he keeps returning to is the Military Occult Complex. Yeah, yeah, some of it's pretty out there, but there's a whole lotta weird shit in this world.

[Cleita]

29. I came to the same conclusion.

These current events and the people driving them made me believe in the devil. The evil we are witnessing is very real and it's a spiritual evil as well as material evil. However, I still think organized religions are scams and I don't have to believe that their Bible or any other claims they make are the whole truth and I will not blindly accept them in faith. Sorry.

[patrice]

38. G - o - d is a word.

Maybe we should not assume that words can do what they can't, i.e. accurately say anything about the un-sayable.

[mondo joe]

44. If it's not sayable it's not worth discussion.

[patrice]

56. pretty much my thoughts exactly

[Mnemosyne]

41. The severe materialism practiced in many churches

is a Satanic approach to God. If anyone was truly paying attention to Christ's teachings, they would be Gnostic's and share possessions as he did.

I have had fundies tell me that they have expensive things because they are filled by the "Holy Spirit" and it's "His" reward. Also that I am ill because I don't have the "HS" in me.

How is materialism in anyway connected to God? When I see huge expensive churches and then see the homeless down the street, it angers me to no end.

If that's not evil, what is?!

Good post btw.

[FreedomAngel82]

53. It's not supposed to be

Having material items doesn't mean anything. It means you have either a lot of money or some good luck and someone helped you out or whatever. Jesus always taught about not placing items here on Earth in your heart but in Heaven and with him. I'm reminded of the story of the rich young man. He did everything right and obeyed all the Jewish laws. He came up to Christ and told him this and Christ replied how that was great and to sell everything and take up his cross and follow him. The man went away sad because he had a lot of possessions. And Christ taught about how we should want to be apart of his world which is unshakable and you don't need items which is why you're to give to the less fortunate. Just because you're rich doesn't mean you've necessarily been blessed by God. There could be numerous reasons why you have a lot of material items. For the most part Jesus didn't even have a place to always lay his head at night. So would that mean that Jesus wasn't blessed by God because he didn't have a lot of material items? Of course not. I can be poor but still be rich in life with happiness by friends, family etc. Happiness is what you make of it. :) I know how you feel about these mega churches. My grandparents church is a little old church. My church is big but it's not over decorated or a mega church as you call it. It's just big because there are a lot of us and everything. It's what's in the people's hearts that should count and what they do. As James in his book said "faith without works is dead."

[patrice]

57. Greed makes us weak.

All of us could get along on so much less. Think what it would be like if everybody had what they needed.

I'm not talking communism or socialism here, just less stuff.

Our country has conflated material possessions with "God's love".

[FreedomAngel82]

60. Oh yes

I definitely think so. The Bush family is a prime example of that and people like Falwell and Robertson. On Guy James' show about a month or so ago he was talking about religion and stuff and he told how Pat Robertson once was taking money (donations) from people and it was supposed to go to missionary work but instead it went to a private diamond mind he had! :mad:

[patrice]

61. There are some ugly stories around those African diamond mines!

[Mnemosyne]

72. I was just stating what they had said to me.

And I've read the Gnostic Gospels, et al.

The only "religion" I've found to be so materialistic is satanism, thus the comparison. Hope you didn't think I meant ALL churches, I know many wonderful Christians.

I've been poor (financially) for most of my life. It's only when I'm basically told that I'm not as "good" as them due to their finances (sent as a reward from God), that I"m ill because I don't love "their" God, that I see the comparisons to satanism. The God I know cares not for material possessions of this Earth, and only for the spirit.

I wasn't trying to insult true Christians, only those that believe they are superior due to worldly things. Materialism is a basic tenet of satanism, I've researched on that too, even the satanic bible. (also the Koran, Torah, The Books of the Dead (Egyptian and Tibetan), so many over the years it's hard to remember. Oh, and the Bible several times.

:hi:

[Tux]

82. Yo

Gnostic gospels any good? I've been considering reading the Gnostic Bible but not sure to drop $35 for it. Jefferson Bible is OK but too fast and seemed patchy (it is).

[Mnemosyne]

84. It's very good.

Felt it gave a much broader view of where Christ was coming from.
Get it at the library, then if not what you enjoy, no cost.

[Tux]

81. OK

For the most part Jesus didn't even have a place to always lay his head at night.

Was his carpentry job outsourced to Rome or something? From what I recall from Sunday school, Jesus had a job to pay for his lectures and trashing of merchants in temples.

[LightningFlash]

50. That is the truth....

And like others have since proven, evil can enter the government and turn us all into what we hate and fear.

Satan did enter our union, and become our reason for "absolute" justice across the seas. Satan's world, not god's world.

Now the real god who has watched it all from afar, is having his retribution. The massive sinners, satan followers, misguided members of an illegal unethical war more than 10 years in the making......And all of their rapturists, are seeing their day before the sun. Their day in the light, for the crimes committed against humanity.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: With nowhere else to go.... :smoke:

[FreedomAngel82]

55. Yep

You should sometime read the book of Job. Now that's a good book. It shows how Satan has the ability to do what he can here on this earth and it's up to us on how we react to him. We can either let him get to us and go along with it (as in those following Bush and being ignorant) or we can be knowledgeable and be with the light. You don't have to be as smart as King Solomon of course but it's all about making the right decisions on who you follow and to believe by reading and studying yourself whether it be the situation in Iraq or with Christianity.

[tallahasseedem]

54. Nominated

There is nothing like great dialogue to restore my faith in humanity.

[libodem]

67. pretty spooky : when the church becomes the Antichrist

[Telly Savalas]

70. Word.

[Tsiyu]

73. Kick

:kick:

[CitySky]

74. my thought for the day

"Therefore I tell you the truth, all her many sins have been forgiven -- for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little." (Jesus, in Luke 7:47)

take from it what you will.

[DrGonzoLives]

77. False prophets

when some guy starts sitting on the corporate boards of every company on the planet, watch out...

[rniel]

78. Bush, Cheney, rumsfelt, wolfowitz etc. et al.

Could literally be demons sent here to destroy everything. I've often thought that this could be true. I'm basically an atheist too.

Besides if they were demons they would never admit it, but pretend to be carrying out god's work. and trying to fool everyone, which is exactly what they do.

[FreedomAngel82]

83. Exactly

One thing I've learned with the spiritual realms is the evil one's always keep changing their messages etc. like they've done with Bush and with Iraq. You can feel the evil coming from their souls. It's a bad feeling indeed. Why else do you think the Bush gang claims to be Christians a lot? A real Christian wouldn't have to proclaim it all the time but would just do it by their deeds and how they live their life.

[donsu]

80. they are not devils - they are gutter criminals in suits

there are no gods

[Roland99]

86. It's just the bad side of human nature.

Satan is a purely man-made concept.