Who will Implement a Draft first? Conservatives or Liberals

[Fescue4u]

Reading through a rather shocking thread Im wondering who will win the race to implement a Draft.

It seems that Conservatives want a Draft to win the war.

It seems that some liberals want a Draft to end the war.

Are we just fuked or WHAT?

A Freeper once told me, and I thought he was crazy...That Kerry was more likely to implement a Draft than bush was.

That Bush would never have the moral authority or backing to implement a draft.

But that Kerry would, because he didnt start the mess and could justify a draft as a way to end the war that Bush started, and that he would have the moral authority (being a vet himself), to order our children to die in Iraq.

I thought he was crazy. Today, Im not so sure.

Could it be, that the only reason we don't have a draft now, is because Bush stole the election? Reading the liberal pro draft thread, I think its quite possible.

[Singular73]

1. Yep

Liberals are the drafters, historically.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Again you miss this

we are not for the draft, we just realize it is coming... and yuo have YET to give an alternative that IS RATIONAL and will work

As to who will implement it? It is coming and it will not be a Liberal bill... of that you can be sure... Bush wants one, they will try the McNamara Kids program first, but I am sure you have no problem with Forest Gump going to war again, after all he volunteered right?

So how about instead of pointing fingers you give us a rational alternative that will work... and bringing the troops home, as much as I wish that was in the cards is NOT an answer... for they will not do it

Now here is your free clue in the Constitution, who controls the House?

[Name removed]

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[nadinbrzezinski]

9. No you do not know my possition

again who CONTROLS the HOUSE, specifically teh Rules committee?

REPUBLICANS.. who do you think will bring it forth?

[Fescue4u]

10. Go look it up yourself

Im not interested in playing consitutional trivia with you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Becuase yuo have no solutions

the Republcians CONTROL the house and specifically the Rules Committee (delay to be specific)

Imagine the kind of bill they will pass... the 2001 proposal for Unviversal Service will give you a good idea of what they think is a good draft proposal for it is neither universal or equitrable... Rangel's bill was universal and equitable

For the record the Republicans were teh first ones to READ a draft bill on teh floor of the House in 2001, followed months later by Rangel... those of us who have been following this have an understand of where this is going and where it is coming from

[AndyTiedye]

13. The Alternative is Indeed to Bring the Troops Home

The draft is a cornerstone of the PNAC agenda. They want to invade
and colonize the whole middle east. That would take millions of troops.

If we can stop them from starting up the draft, that pretty much winds
it up for PNAC. They won't even be able to keep up the occupaton of
Iraq, let alone invade more countries.

If Bush** DOES start up the draft, then he should take ALL of the heat for it.
If there ever was a time to put the pink tutus away, it is on the topic
of the draft.

It is essential that all of the onus for this fall on the Republicans.

Sadly, PNAC has some allies on the Democratic side who would be all
too happy to make our kids die for the greater glory (and territory) of Israel.
Would Senators Lieberman and Biden PLEASE SHUT UP!

[Fescue4u]

15. I agree

Buy some, *ahem*, believe that you we cannot "just" bring the troops home.

Some believe that we tear families apart, send unwilling people to war, have them die, and then and only then can we bring those who survive home.

Almost sounds like a grisly rube Goldberg machine.

I say cut to the chase, and bring them home.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Again a dose of reality for you

we are buildign nine bases in Iraq and 16, last count, in Afghanistan... if you think they will bring the troops home any time soon I have a bridge to sell you.

I wish they did... but I am part of the reality based comunity and it will take more than just platitudes for the pressure to do just that to build.

As to PNAC... they need (so they think) to build this due to Peak Oil... if need be, and if they think they can get away with it, mercenaries are now being looked at RIGHT AS WE SPEAK.

By the way... did yuo know that the McNamara Program is right now being implemented and people are given a choice... jail or army... in case you have missed your history that is the absolute first phase of any draft.

[Name removed]

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[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Or you have no use for reality

by the way you can filter me, and reality....

Have a good life...

[AndyTiedye]

21. We All Know They Are Planning to Crank Up the DRAFT

What we must NOT do is help them do it!

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Trust me I am not hellping them

but I realize it is coming.. heck first phase is here... if the voice of the white house is correct, they are now goign after prison populations... that IS the first first of a draft

[xray s]

3. It's Bush's fucked up war

Let him come crawling on his belly to the American people to tell them he needs to draft their kids for his meat grinder.

[MADem]

6. Good point, there

And even if he does not go on TV to sell the program, the very fact remains that even if he sends surrogates to explain it for him, or the House and Senate vote on it in the dead of night on a Friday before a sunny weekend, the monkey still has to put pen to paper and sign his name to effect the legislation.

If he signs it, he owns it...it becomes part of HIS administration, his agenda, regardless of who introduced it.

[PsN2Wind]

5. I e-mailed Charlie Rangel's site

suggesting that he now introduce a bill to eliminate the Selective Service System. Since the Repubs claim the "all-volunteer" military means there is no need for a draft why not save the money for other purposes. Let the Repubs defend keeping the system in place.

[Fescue4u]

7. Thank you.

We need all in sanity we can gather.

[Tom Kitten]

8. "Are we just fuked or WHAT?"

Not all of us but someone is surely is stinking up this thread!

[Cornjob]

11. Neither!

After Bush's pledge, there isn't anyone politically crazy enough to reinstate the draft.

Repugs are scared to death of the polls, and Dems will be content to see Bush's mess get messier!

[AndyTiedye]

14. **'s Lack of Moral Authority is Even Evident to the Freepers?!

A Freeper once told me, and I thought he was crazy...That Kerry was more likely to implement a Draft than bush was.
That Bush would never have the moral authority or backing to implement a draft.

Interesting that even a freeper seems to recognize that ** has no
moral authority.

Unfortunately, ** doesn't seem to need any moral authority to do
whatever the feep he wants. He's got the Congress, the Supreme Court,
the churches and the media, so what does he need moral authority for?

[Fescue4u]

24. Well this guy wasnt a Freeper in the original sense of the word

just a 'pub that I know at work.

But yea, i thought that aspect we pretty damn interesting

[chknltl]

18. I tried to respond to that thread you mentioned...

...but I got bumped offline. I got that posters point. If he ghosts in on this thread my thanks to him for the courage to post his thoughts. I did not agree with all he said but the notion of the draft,(initiated by the repukes), as a way to stop the war and perhaps as a way to perform triage on the American Government, was not lost on me. Where I do not agree is that this is the best way to accomplish the dramatic changes which need to happen. I do not see that a draft at this point is inevitable either. If I felt that way then all of our work in supporting John Conyers would be for naught. Perhaps a multitude of attacks on the neocons will be necessary in order to bring them to justice. Perhaps a draft will happen, if it does then it likely will be the downfall of those who initiate it. I do know this: I do not support a draft "at this time" for any reason. I for one will continue my fighting along less radical lines by spreading information, the truth or what I perceive it to be, as my primary ammo and my computer and my mouth will be my primary weapons. When members of the Democratic Underground call me to action to vote on something which will be of aid to bring down the neocons: I have been and will continue to be there for them. When that poster whom you were referring to asked for an alternative to the draft I tried to suggest the article in the Homepage of the DU titled: "Fighting Back". It had what I felt were great tools for fighting back. I got hope from that article. I get hope from the works of John Conyers and others who are beginning to take our fight to the enemies of Democracy. I get hope from the works of all the members of the Democratic Underground, After Downing Street and other blog sites who are rallying around John Conyers and John Kerry and Wes Clark and Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinnich and etc. in our fight to regain our country. I gained hope when I began hearing of these fights in the newsmedia earlier this week. The notions of a draft "at this time" removes that hope for me. rant over

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Yuo are giving practical alternatives

which is what several of us asked, and never got, beyond platitudes of bring the troops home... in principle we all agree with that, but the political reality is that they are not going to declare victory and go home any time soon.

I also sugested, (and the first phase of a draft is already on.. prison populations)... start educating the youth you know that first this is a real possibility, not a pipe dream, nor are we paranoid...

Then direct them to the Quakers and tell them TO START WORKING on their Conscientious Objector Status... even that will make this real for them... but the old military adage applies here.. plan for the worst (in this case a draft) and hope for the best.

Why the quakers? They are the most experienced group of people in this country in preparing CO files, followed closely by the Unitarian Church.

[chknltl]

23. Off Topic kinda...

early on in this "war" I had this mental picture of our army securing all the oil assets of Iraq, then hunker down and defend them. I could just hear bush saying; "Tell you what Iraq: we got your back!"
"When you get things figured out in oh say a decade or so we will gladly give you back your erl". Now I don't think that is so funny anymore. I hear a lot of hayseed plans called into "C-SPIN". Here is mine: We supposedly went into Iraq to protect ma and apple pie against Saddam and WMDs. OK they are both no longer threats, "mission accomplished"!!! In the process of doing this Iraq and her people got "fubar"ed, little electricity, water, medical and etc. Continuing with my "hick" plan: Why not use our military to rebuild those hospitals, restore the electricity and water, defend the re-builders, defend the resources and let the people of Iraq figure out exactly what it is they want to do for themselves. Once they get that hammered out give them back their country. Sure without their own military that will be difficult, so give 'em back their military as well. If they want anther dictatorship, so what! Our job is done here, don't forget to call us sometimes! Well that is my "just-fell-off-the-turnip-truck" style plan, all nice-n-tidy, (No worse than others I have heard lately.) Here on the other hand is what I think is going to happen: We keep spilling blood over there while propping up what appears to be a puppet government. Bush initiates the draft so that his programs of "Iraqization" can continue. We rebuild their military so it can take over when we leave. We loose Americans each day until we finally pull out. Either during or just after that pull out, civil war breaks out and our recently installed puppet government gets overthrown. Bush leaves office in disgrace. Well that IS one possible scenario, not like that hasn't happened to us before. Of course we might be able to prevent all of this, (or worse), if "we the people" impeach these bastards and bring them to trial first. That is where my hopes lay.
:patriot:If I have offended any hicks, hayseeds or turnip truck owners, sorry guys, we are all Americans here 'kay?