Do you believe that we (human beings) are more than physical?

[Rainbowreflect]

In your opinion is there more to us than just the physical?

I don't want to lead anyones answer, so just answer by what that question means to you. Explain your answer all you want to in your reply.

[tk2kewl]

1. I believe all things living and non-living are more than physical

my proof:

[SlightlyWorried]

22. So many Yes votes.

I would have thought or rather hoped that with all of the progress from the enlightenment and the advent of information theory that most people would have voted no.

But I suppose this shows that progress takes time. I mean 200 years ago I suppose the votes would have been 100-1. Complex systems are scary and mysticism dies slowly.

Dang misclicked on the reply. I'm at the wrong level. Whoops.

[KittyWampus]

44. The Enlightenment Didn't Negate Intuition & Inductive Reasoning, Nor

did it ever explain how Consciousness could arise from physical matter.

It did, however, begin the mistaken perception that Science can be divorced from Philosphy and it also began the unhealthy alliance between Science and Industry.

The Enlighenment was the beginning of Materialism's rise to power.

[immoderate]

63. Mountains, tree, running water are physical.

My reaction is to their physical beauty. I don't think the mountains have "spirits," and if they do, I am too appreciative of their physical beauty to notice the spirits, which are invisible.

--IMM

[adnelson60087]

2. Humans are animals

with big brains who are self-aware. We live, eat, crap, reproduce, and die. If there is anything more to us than that, then so too must the lowest creature on the bottom of earth's oceans. I find that highly unlikely. Still, our lives are valuable because they are OURS to live, with all the successes and failures inherent to them.

We are self-aware animals and that is all we need be.

[Bellamia]

5. We are also aware of Death..........

Aware of the "past", and of the "future." And that's all in the mind, and I know of no proofs that other "animals" "think" in this manner. I believe we are spirits in a human body, and define Spiritual as how we are in the world, Our behavior, experiences,
beliefs etc.

[KittyWampus]

45. What Is "Self Awareness" Made Of?

[Terran]

51. Buddhists don't find that at all unlikely.

In fact, that is central to their belief--that all living creatures can one day become sentient. They pretty much have it figured out. I think it's greatly to your credit that you would make such an important leap in reasoning, even if you don't believe it's true.

edit: typo

[undeterred]

3. I post, therefore I am

[grumpy old fart]

4. We are star dust, we are golden.....

that said, we are matter. Now that the matter gives rise to consciousness is really something wonderous....don't you think?

[BurtWorm]

6. All we are is dust in the wind.

:dunce:

[grumpy old fart]

7. well, eventually, yes, put less prettily? Heroicly?....

[Bellamia]

8. Ashes to ashes and dust to dust?

But someone said, "I have said, Ye are gods." I think his name was Jesus, or more formally, Rabbi Jesus.

[kliljedahl]

37. You must be from Kansas

Keith’s Barbeque Central

[fla nocount]

9. Popeye knew all along "I yam what I yam."

I think we are pure consciousness. Even these physical vehicles we tootle about in are things we are conscious of.

Try removing the conscious mind from the physical body and you end up with a body....a dead one. I don't know that it's possible to separate and identify our elemental being for the same reason a fish doesn't know that it's wet. I've given up trying.

[Mnemosyne]

56. Yeah for Popeye! He knew. n/t

[H2O Man]

10. What is the difference

between a living human and a corpse?

[htuttle]

12. The same as the difference

...Between a computer that's turned on, and one that's turned off.

Just because we can't 'reboot' people doesn't mean there's anything supernatural going on.

[H2O Man]

14. "Supernatural"

No one said it was supernatural. And what "we" you are speaking of includes who?

[Kraklen]

15. A beating heart and oxygen being transported to the brain.

That's pretty much it.

[mondo joe]

19. The difference: A system that is working and a system that isn't.

What's the difference between a TV that is working and one that is broken?

[H2O Man]

29. Not much.

Easy to unplug a tv, and plug it back in.

[mondo joe]

30. I didn't write "unplugged" - I wrote "broken" - and for a reason.

All animals, humans included, break down and the systems cease to function.

Sometimes we can repair the breakdowns. Sometimes we can't.

But in the end we're the same in that we are systems that cease to function.

[H2O Man]

31. Right.

I wrote "unplugged." I wrote it to show an obvious difference. In the end, you may be correct. I have an image of the catholic purgatory as having to watch endless reruns of mindless shows. Better, perhaps, to break the tv than merely unplug it.

[KittyWampus]

46. Hmm, A Living Human Can Effect Change Consciously. A Corpse Cannot

and neither can a human individual between incarnations... unless they are exempt adepts. :)

[htuttle]

11. Is a pattern of energy 'physical'?

Is a computer more than a small lump of silicon with some metallic parts? Sure. There's a complicated electrical pattern running inside. Without it, it's not a computer. Shut it off, and the pattern's gone.

Is my mind 'physical'? If you mean 'not supernatural', then most definitely, yes. A "mind" of any type (human or not) is very complicated, and may even have ways of communicating with other 'minds' somehow, but it's all 'here' in the physical universe. Meaning, it's all within the realm of science.

[Rainbowreflect]

13. Kick, I want more replies.

I am doing my own little non-scientific study.
Thanks all!

[Mnemosyne]

16. Read "The Field". n/t

[Rainbowreflect]

18. More info please.

[Mnemosyne]

34. The Field - Lynn McTaggart

The Quest for the Secret Force of the Universe

It shows how consciousness is a causal power in the Universe. There is a history of sorts of the discovery of the quantum world also throughout. Mind = Matter, creating our reality as we observe it. I'm about halfway thru, really good so far.

It is fascinating and a blurb by Arthur Clarke states - "This is an important book and should be widely read... It stretches the imagination, making a good case that we are on the verge of another revolution in our understanding of the universe - perhaps even greater than the one that heralded the Atomic Age"

If you like this type of books, you might like - The Dancing Wu Li Masters by Gary Zukov. It's basically shows the connection between quantum physics and eastern philosophies/metaphysics for non-physicists. Very good read.

[KittyWampus]

48. Holding That The Universe Is Essentially Mental Energy AnswersMany More

questions than assuming it is rooted in physical matter.

I've taken much grief for arguing this in Intelligent Design threads. :)

[Mnemosyne]

55. Know what you mean! lol

The truth just feels like the truth. Your "gut" will always know, even when your head and heart try to argue or ignore it.

Matter is only "thinking" energy in a sense. There's also much "unconscious" design, if the quantum works the way it is believed. Know what I mean!

Science and religion will join hands someday, I hope. Ever since I've been reading eastern religions/metaphysics, mostly Buddhism, and the quantum world, it has struck me as a logical "evolution". Terrible at specifics without notes (bad memory! ahh!), but know what my instincts know.

That make ANY sense?

Bit distracted with the hearing.

Sorry, forgot to post! Duh.

[Just Me]

17. Energy,...

,...where does ours go when we die?

[mondo joe]

20. We don't "have" energy.

So there's no onwhere for it to go when we die.

Where does a toaster's energy go when it ceases to function?

[Just Me]

27. If we're like a toaster, who's in charge of the power switch?

While we are alive we do, in fact, have energy pulsing through our bodies. Of course, you know that, I know you do. Where does our energy come from and where does it go?

[mondo joe]

28. We don't "have energy" - we process food stuffs into energy.

When our systems fail we no longer process anything into energy and we cease.

What do you think happens to the energy "pulsing" through every daisy, maggot, sun, guppy and tree?

[KittyWampus]

49. Well, Energy Passes From Potential To Manifest. Existing As Potential

makes it no less real... just harder to observe or surmise.

[manic expression]

58. Exactly.

Energy passes through all things. From potential to manifest to potential to manifest again.

[Kraklen]

25. It's lost as heat...

and in the feeding of various organisms.

[leftofthedial]

everything we do can be reduced to biochemistry

our ability to imagine included.

However, the things we imagine are not physical.

[Igel]

35. That's because the things we imagine are information.

Not a physical something, per se. An arrangement or patterning of physical somethings.

[mondo joe]

36. Nah - imagination is just the processing of a physical something.

:-)

[Igel]

41. Yeah, but it's basically the information

that we have shuffled around in our brains.

No information makes for a tabula that's pretty rasa.

[leftofthedial]

21. everything we do can be reduced to biochemistry

our ability to imagine included.

However, the things we imagine are not physical.

[patcox2]

40. Mathematically proven that no logical system can comprehend itself.

Thus it is nonsense to say that human science can fully explain human existence. All that we think and all that we do is a construct of our logical system of description. No such system of description can accurately describe itself.

Godel's theorem is the principle.
http://www.miskatonic.org/godel.html

[mondo joe]

47. So we can't fully explain human existence. What does that have to do

with whether we are physical or something other than physical?

I can't explain how the toaster works, but that doesn't mean it has a spirit making it work.

[patcox2]

62. It means you can never, not even theoretically, know.

You can never know whether there is a "spirit" or not.

Anyway, your glib assertion that all has been explained by biochemistry is so demonstrably false, there really isn't much worth in addressing the rest of your tired old cliched arguments.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. The trouble with finding out is that you have to die.

I'll reserve my judgement 'til the ticket to the last great adventure has my name on it.

[tokenlib]

24. That about says it...

We needed a third option--"I don't know!" But then, believing is more about trusting than knowing..

[liberalitch]

26. reincarnation.....

[Rainbowreflect]

32. Kick for the afternoon folks.

[dchill]

33. Sorry - can't take part.

Sometimes I think yes, but sometimes I know no.

[Igel]

38. Nope. I believe when you die, that's that.

We have more complex brains, and maybe could be more, but aren't.

Doesn't mean I didn't (or still don't vaguely) believe in a creator, or life after death. Just that it's not a continuation, but a restoration. (My belief system is resurrectionist in nature, not based in the idea of an "immortal soul".) If God wanted to, he could resurrection the pet guinea pig I had when I was a kid.

(As regards God's "unit": no need for one. I figure he's neuter. Part of the 'him' business is grammatical gender, part is gender based social roles: the giant metaphor the OT/NT is based on depends on them having been based in a divinely sanctioned patriarchy.)

[VOX]

39. How does one explain the great works of literature, art, music?

Yes, it could be said that the brain allows patterns to be perceived, and for tools and instruments to be used.

But that doesn't adequately explain *how* these works were created, let alone the need/drive to make art.

I'm not even talking about an afterlife. IMO, in the here and now, human beings are indeed more than physical.

[patcox2]

42. They can't explain them, they just think they can.

They say "biochemical reactions" as if thats an explanation.

Reminds me of "A Fish Called Wanda." "Chimps don't read philosophy." "Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it."

[mondo joe]

43. Why do these things require a non-physical explanation?

I don't see what about them requires a non physical explanation.

[KittyWampus]

50. Because The Universe Has Been Proven To Be Non Local.

[mondo joe]

53. That doesn't answer the question. Why does the existence of art

or literature require a non-physical explanation?

[DistressedAmerican]

52. Big Blink Out!

No more conscoiusness after death than I had before I was conceived...

[Terran]

54. It's my devout hope is that they are, put it that way.

This is my 'faith'.

My partner is a witch and a ritual magician, and I've seen some pretty weird stuff and heard about plenty more, over the years. And none of it was anything anyone did with their hands, in any 'physical' way. I've studied some Western mysticism thanks to him, and some of the metaphysical systems described therein make a lot of sense to me.

[AlienGirl]

57. It's a Big Secret, isn't it?

Someday, it will be answered...

Tucker

[MrSlayer]

59. If you mean "Do we have souls?" then No.

Afterlife and all that superstition is simply a carrot for those too weak to accept the fact that we, like all other creatures, simply die and that's the end. No one wants to believe their life is as meaningless as it really is and mythology about afterlife is a way for people to comfort themselves.

[Finder]

61. Yep

You got that right. I would like to add that life is not meaningless. I like to use bacteria as an example...without bacteria, Earth would be one big trash heap.

[Rainbowreflect]

60. Kick up for those who did not vote yesterday.