I see some positive indications from my own experiences at DU.

[KlatooBNikto]

Nearly 18 months ago, I posted some items on this board expressing my conviction that 9/11 was conceived and executed by Bush and his gang of thieves.I was roundly attacked by everyone.The outrage was palpable.

In the past few months, when I have posted similar items and others have done the same, I hear not a peep anywhere.I take this as a good sign that many are coming around to the view that this gang is capable of doing that heinous act and pinning the blame on the ones we hate the most.

May be if we keep this up, others may reach the moment of revulsion we are all waiting for.

[sui generis]

1. whatever you do

NEVER EVER think it's funny to use the phrase "Blonde White Chick" in a title (ala The Onion) here.

Just last week I was forced to add about a dozen people to my permanent Shit List for chewing off my testicles, and oddly, mostly straight men.

Who apparently don't read The Onion.

Yeah I'm calling you out (not you Klat)

p.s. and I'll do it again.

[Tsiyu]

12. I hope you got a new boxed set! You need the Teflon line of huevos...

:rofl:

[BOSSHOG]

2. I believed they were behind it all along

and I'm not agreeing for agreements sake. I've said (for years, now) that if Clinton, Gore or Kerry had been President on 11 September 2001, there would not have been a terrorist attack because those men did not need a terrorist attack. bush and his evil inner circle knew there was going to be a terrorist attack because they were told there would be one. They let it happen on purpose. No doubt in my military mind. Get a hold of cheney's energy task force report and our point will be proven.

[Goldmund]

3. Really? You were chewed up? That's strange

By the time I joined in early 2002, I firmly believed in LIHOP. Nobody ever chewed me up for it.

[KlatooBNikto]

6. In fact, in one of my posts I stated that 9/11 was conceived and executed

by Bush.The response was I must be insane to suggest that a sitting President would launch an attack on Americans. That has not happened to me in the past few months.

[patcox2]

7. LIHOP isn't MIHOP, I am surprised he wasn't chewed up.

But, from my observations, you won't get too chewed up if you just mention that you think Bush had something to do with it, or even that he made it happen.

What will get a person chewed up is junk science and arguing that you have "proven" it was Bush because you looked at some pictures on the internet and have scientifically proven that it was impossible for WTC 7 to fall of natural causes, or that steel buildings never collapse due to fire, or that the planes were remote controlled, that there was no pentagon plane, that cell phones don't work in planes and therefore all of the so called phone calls were faked, or that there were shaped charges implanted in the trade center and it was a controlled demolition (based of course on watching a videotape), etc. etc.

The chewing comes from people who have a clue about physics and materials science, in other words, people in the reality based community, the objections are not political, they are about junk science.

[KlatooBNikto]

10. I probably should tell you at this point I hold a Ph.D. in Materials

Science myself and have been amused by some of the claims on the nature of the collapses of WTC 1,2 and 7. But my suspicions about Bush had nothing to do with physical evidence. I came to this belief purely on the basis of Means, Motive and Opportunity, the trinity of the Sherlock Holmes investigatory technique. On all these counts, Bush( or more correectly, Cheney and Rumsfeld) rank higher than any one.

[patcox2]

13. Then you know exactly what I mean.

I am one of those who tends to chew on those who make absurd statements about the physics and who think that they have proven this or that.

But I have never chewed or attacked anyone just for thinking Bush made it happen. Thats a different story.

Means, motive, and opportunity, these are good rules for developing a hypothesis. But of course only observations can prove a hypothesis.

They didn't have to make it happen.

My stumbling blocks are: 1. They are not that evil (I tend to believe people all mean well, fucked up as they might be); 2. They would not have been able to pull it off if they tried; 3. They didn't need to do something so outrageous, they could have done a much safer and less destructive stunt and still justified an Iraq war; and 4. were they behind the early 1990s WTC bombing, too; by which I mean, we have proof that al queda tried it once before, without help from Bush, why is it so implausible that al queda would try again?

Did Bush perhaps push the taliban too far with his pipeline demands in spring of 1991 (demands made at behest of enron, for the pipeline eventually would have taken natural gas to enrons India plant)? And did bush stupidly and overconfidently ignore the threats? thats the most likely to me.

[KlatooBNikto]

15. Because they command all the information inflow and outflow, it is not

possible for us to attack them on these areas without having access to the information ourselves. They have ensured that such information is not available by destroying all evidence and stonewalling any investigations into the collapse of the towers.

Even so, one can infer from their omissions what may have happened.Such as the omission of air quality monitoring in the immediate aftermath of the collapse that would have revealed the presence of explosives. That is a tell tale omission in my opinion.

Along with the numerous other circumstantial evidence, these kinds of small pieces of the puzzle can add a lot to our understanding of the event.

[Eloriel]

8. Yep, I can second that.

My experience exactly. I joined in 2002 as well.

[Warpy]

4. I don't think they are smart enough to pull it off

Look how totally hamfisted those anthrax mailings were for how this bunch handles an inside job. They didn't even realize the anthrax spores would volatize through the envelope paper. They really are not that bright. They are merely ruthless.

That ruthlessness translated into looking at specific warnings and simply ignoring them, although they kept Asscrock's sanctimonious ass off commercial jets. We were expendable. They were not.

I'm still firmly in the LIHOP camp. That sickens me enough.

[Eloriel]

9. It almost doesen't matter

at least to me.

Full complicity vs. full agency for something this horrific? Not morally different, IMO.

[KlatooBNikto]

11. I have to agree with you.Even if evidence surfaced that caught them

red handed ordering the destruction of the WTC Towers, it would not make a difference to their true believers.They have managed to turn this into an US vs THEM crusade.If they were cofronted with the evidence the next question we will be asked is "Which side are you on"? and the discourse will go downhill from there.

[RaleighNCDUer]

5. Over that same time period I have shifted from a wary LIHOP

(I never believed that it could have happened without someone turning a blind eye to it) to a fairly strong MIHOP. Anything less just doesn't answer enough questions.

Perhaps, as you say, those outside are coming to not dismiss LIHOP. And that's all we need to get the investigations going and indictments issued. If we can just keep the momentum up through the next election.

[Selatius]

14. I don't think 9/11 was executed by Bush, too obvious if it were

I think it was more a long-term strategy by corporatist elements within our country to foment war for profit.

When you have a corrupt foreign policy over the last several decades that calls for the destruction of democratically elected governments and calls for the support of mass murdering dictators and thugs, there is going to be blow back.

Someone somewhere is going to respond to that kind of brutal barbarism with the same kind of barbarism in return. They were counting on it. It is almost pure elementary logic to assume someone will strike back.

All Bush did was sit on his hands and let it all happen, let all those thousands of people get slaughtered so that he would have a blank check pass the Patriot Act and send the armies of empire marching across the face of earth in the name of God, Glory, and Greed.