"Damned tax & spend liberals!!" (Republican mantra)

[Flying_Pig]

Reading over the latest Republican budget requests ($87-billion for Iraq; $16-billion for energy industry producers; $100's of billions in tax breaks for the wealthy; and on, and on...), is an exercise in trying to understand fiscal madness and futility. Never, in the history of this country, has there been an administration more fiscally irresponsible than this one, yet, they still have the gall to level charges against liberals, of budgetary ineptness.

The Republicans remind me of an old Richard Pryor sketch, where he's talking with his girlfriend after sex, about orgasms (and her lack of one), and he proclaims, "I got mine, ....get yours!" Yes, wealthy Republicans got theirs, and the rest of us be damned, including our children, who will be paying for the trillions of dollars of debt and interest these fiscal whackos are running up right now.

By the way, whatever did become of the missing trillions the Prentagon can't seem to locate?

But, it's all part of the plan. As the radicals of PNAC are allowed to direct our foreign policy, the Bush administration has allowed rouge and radical elements to determine the budgetary processes of this nation. Their plan, put simply, is to empty the Treasury, so there's no money left to honor the social programs and obligations that make this nation what it is. They want Social Security to go bankrupt. They want public schools to shut down. They want our social fabric to be ripped to shreds. They want fiscal anarchy from border to border, ....and they are succeeding. Could anything be more damaging to the fabric of this nation? Could outside terrorists do a better job than the Republicans at kicking the legs out from under this nation? Isn't what they are doing treason?

Somewhere, ...........Osama laughs, a deep, and hearty belly laugh.

Even if a Dem president is elected, which looks almost a certainty now, whoever that is, is going to face years of work and budgetary discipline to right our economic ship, ....just as the right-wing radicals intended. It will be a replay of what Bill Clinton had to go through, only now, the "fiscal patient" is on life support, and the Republicans have given away, or sold, the transplant organ, as the "patient" lies dying on the table.

Indeed, the Democrats will most likely have to either cancel the tax breaks, or, outright raise taxes, to return fiscal sanity to our government. and once again, upon the first effort to do this, the Republicans will stand back and scream (yet again), "Damned tax and spend liberals!!" We're damned if we do, and damned if we don't. I suggest though, that this time we don't let them get away with it. The Democratic party, and every candidate for office, needs to turn this around, and put the "shoe" on the other foot! It's way past time we started talking about tax and spend Republicans!!, and unlike them, we've got reams of evidence to substantiate the charge!

Tax and spend Democrats indeed! Let's make them eat those words, now, and forever!

:grr:
!!!

[RobertSeattle]

1. I prefer "deficit and spend" Republicans

Or proponents of the "birth tax" since they like saddling our children with THEIR deficits.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

12. "Red Ink Republicans" - "Borrow and Spend" pubbies

"Birth tax" - good one. Debt is a tax, and Bush has raised taxes on the next 3 generations.

[ProfessorGAC]

2. Red Ink Republicans

Or Borrow And Spend Conservatives. They both ring nicely and even Joe (or Joan) Average can grasp the message.
The Professor

[Flying_Pig]

9. I like those...

:hi:

[burr]

16. you are right, we need something that rings nicely with the average joe...

which is why tax and spend works for me. They are increasing our taxes for the future to flush today's money down the drain.

If it wasn't for Reagan our deficit would be half of what it is today, because we would be paying almost nothing in interest on the National Debt. How much more will shrub's borrowing increase our taxes?

A nice question for the candidates to pose to voters.

[AWD]

3. I prefer "Attacks and Spend Republicans"

[papau]

4. the Prentagon missing trillions is a spin - a myth - but I agree with

your thought!

:-)

:toast:

:-)

As to Pentagon missing money - this is same as the DOE missing billion. An outside audit is trying to tie Department spending to Laws authorizing that spending and further to the Treasury Depart Accounting systems accounting reports category of expense names.

As with DOE where the missing billion - after you read the audit - turns out to be a few million and the folks that stole the money were going to prison, the Department of Defense audit has shown a lack of command concern about taking inventory, or posting usuage (the CEO 1 minute gun salute that the GOP contributors get with their tour uses up a few million of ammo - all so as to elect Bush - and the expense does not get recorded as spent ammo). The mismatched accounting systems need to get fixed - Oracle offerred their software for free to do so - but the GOP are not into folks being able to follow the money easily. And the media does not care.

So there may well be thefts that the internal Pentagon audits have missed - as there was at DOE and its internal audits - but there is no proof of any trillion dollar pot of gold being missing.

[BlueJazz]

5. I call Republicans "Borrow and spend" people.

It's far worse to borrow money and pay interest then to just tax yourself and spend it.

You would think that many people would be extremely opposed to borrowing money on a national scale
after seeing how much interest they have to pay on credit cards every year.
Seems like they just don't put the two together.

[w4rma]

6. credit card Republicans; borrow and spend Republicans;

cheap labor Republicans

[meow2u3]

18. Sweatshop conservatives

nt

[salin]

7. Ask... what is the debt liability of each living American

as a result of this republican government (they own all branches - and can't blame it on... a democratic congress (as they tried to do during reagan/bush - except that the budgets from the democratically controlled chambers of congress were always far smaller than that proposed by the White Hosue).

http://www.gao.gov/cghome/npc917.pdf

Projections according to the head of the GAO

a few snippets:
The good news is that as of September 30, 2002, we had about $1 trillion in reported assets. The bad news is that we had almost $8 trillion in reported liabilities. According to my math, that left us with an approximate $7 trillion accumulated deficit, or a little over $24,000 for every man, woman and child in the United States.

=========
For example, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates
that the unified budget deficits in fiscal years 2003 and 2004 will be $401 billion and $480 billion, respectively. These numbers are up significantly from fiscal 2002. Interestingly, CBO estimates that we will incur about $157 billion in interest on publicly held federal debt in fiscal 2003 even though current interest rates are low on
a relative basis. Furthermore, CBO estimates that, excluding Social Security surpluses, the total deficit for fiscal years 2003 and 2004 will be $562 billion and $644 billion, respectively.

So much for the social security Lock Box!
=========
The current U.S government liability figures also do not adequately consider veterans’ health care benefit costs provided through the Department of Veteran’s Affairs nor do they include the difference between future promised and funded benefits in connection with the Social Security and Medicare programs. These additional
amounts total tens of trillions of dollars in discounted present value terms. Stated differently, they are likely to exceed $100,000 in additional burden for every man, woman and child in America today, and these amounts are growing every day.

Get it - the current liability of $24,000 per American - when honestly accounted - over the next couple of years grows to $100,000 per American.

Start asking - do YOUR benefits from the tax cuts, the war, the increased deregulation of energy, etc. add up to being worth the additional liability of $76,000 per each member of your family? There is no free lunch - including George's caviar and champagne for the wealthy.

[Flying_Pig]

8. Cuts like a knife....

".....$7 trillion accumulated deficit, or a little over $24,000 for every man, woman and child...."

OMFG! You know though, one can trot out figures like these, but our lazy and fat "consumer society", is up to its butt in debt, just like the government. It makes me wonder, how serious the majority take government debt, given their own individual fiscal irresponsibility? Seems like the only time they do pay attention, is when it somehow directly affects them. In the case of Social Security, the serious problems are several years away, and I fear the sheeple figure that "someone" will "save" them, and Social Security, before they need it....

[salin]

10. Check this one out

http://www.toptips.com/debtclock.html

[salin]

11. which is realted to this one:

Which, I believe, does not include SS and Medicare in liabilities (hence the lower liability number)

http://brillig.com/debt_clock/

[Flying_Pig]

19. After reading those Salin, my just eaten breakfast feels like a volcano...

:puke:
Damn this stuff makes me mad and the stupidity of our electorate makes me even more angry! It's like they are standing on a corner watching the bank being robbed, but care not, and continue on with their day, oblivious, completely freakin' oblivious, and the only time they'll pay attention to the robbers, is if they come up and punch them in the head. Is this what it's going to take? A head punch?

[baldguy]

13. "Birth Tax" is great!

the camera pans down long line stretching off into the distance of young mothers and families with small children...

"Each and every child owes more than $23,000 the instant they are born because of the regressive spend and spend policies of George W Bush - policies that favor the wealthy and devastate those of us who work and save and contribute to our communities. The massive public debt is a noose around the neck of our children!”

One by one, each parent carries the child up a set of wooden steps to a scaffold which holds a gallows. A head-and-shoulders of a child are shown, with hangman in a dark grey suit & tie (with a small elephant pin on lapel) fitting noose around childs neck. Camera pans up again, and shows an entire field of gallows, with bodies swinging, stetching off into the distance.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

15. why don't they hire your for commericals!

great idea - when will Dems show some guts to make commercials like these?

[Flying_Pig]

20. Excellent!

Write up a script, and send it to the DNC. Maybe (hopefully!) they'll use it!

[Yavin4]

14. I Say, "Raise Taxes on the Wealthy"

Yep. Come right out and say, "folks, we're headed for a fiscal crisis. We're fighting a war. We have a sluggish economy. Our deficits are skyrocketing. It's time for national sacrifice, and the greatest burden should fall on those with the most."

I say raise the top marginal rate to 40% and slap a nickel tax on gas.

[Flying_Pig]

17. Works for me!

:hi:

[rotanilloc]

21. What is wealthy?

As you can probably tell, I'm new to the site. What is wealthy? Some would call my family wealthy, we only make $55,000 or so a year. We lose close to 45% of that to TAXES. I am over-taxed. Keep in mind, too, that the "wealthy" spend more money...keeping the economy going and providing jobs. My employer is quite wealthy, he takes home $200K a year and provides hundreds of jobs to people, paying fair wages (some employees make well over $100K a year). He took a big risk in buying this company, why should he be punished for it? If we start taxing the "wealthy" so much as was suggested, then they won't start new companies, won't create new jobs, won't be as productive, because the risk vs. rewards won't allow it. These folks didn't have money come out of thin air. Through hard work, investment, and determination, they did it. While doing it, they provided work to people, paid FICA taxes, real property taxes, corporate income taxes, personal income taxes, sales taxes, use taxes, inventory taxes, communication taxes, waste taxes, state income tax, local income tax, capital gains tax, fuel taxes, and many other taxes. We should be thankful for these people. THEY FUEL THE ECONOMY, AND THE GOVERNMENT! Without these folks, our economy would be in shambles.

[RobertSeattle]

22. How do you know your boss's income?

Seems rather strange to me. Why would he/she tell you?

[rotanilloc]

24. re: "How do you know your boss's income?"

Our company has an open book policy. Any employee can look at the company Profit & Loss statements. Weird, isn't it? Nice thing about it is that the company won't make a major purchase unless the employees think it is a good idea. Another cool thing is that the employees NEVER bitch about their pay, because we see how much we produce for the company. Every six months, I have to meet with the boss, my income is adjusted based on my production. Sometimes, the company loses money on me, other times they make money on me, lots of money, when that happens, my pay goes up. When the company loses money on me, my pay goes down. I love it.

[RobertSeattle]

27. Interesting

If it works for your company great - almost sounds like socialism!

[denverbill]

25. Just keeping repeating it, over and over.

Without these folks, our economy would be in shambles.

Our economy is in a shambles right now, since the rich folks you keep lauding keep shipping jobs overseas to save money.

The economy was really smoking during most of Clinton's Presidency, AFTER he passed a tax increase on the wealthy. What the hell happened? How do you account for that fact? It doesn't jibe with your distorted version of reality.

Your own taxes haven't increased at all over the last 10 years, unless your tax bracket has changed, because over the last 10 years, no federal tax rates have been increased. Clinton cut the capital gains rate in 96 or 97,

Also, I don't know who does your taxes, but 45% is way too high. I make $60K, and looking at my last pay stub, I've earned (after 401K) 34K, and have had 10K taken out for fed, state, local, SS, and Medicare, which is less than 33%.

[rotanilloc]

26. re: just keep repeating it over and over

45% includes: all the federal ones on the pay stub and:
sales tax, real property tax, capital gains tax, state income, local income, automobile tax, gasoline tax, phone taxes, and many many many others. So many of these taxes are invisable, you don't notice them, unless you research, for example for a ten gallon fill up for my car, there are over four dollars in taxes. Do the research and learn how much we are really taxed. I hate to admit it, but the President has nearly nothing to do with the economy, on a day to day basis. Keep in mind, that lower taxes are a good thing for the economy. You obviously are not an economist, because you'd know that otherwise. Clinton's tax raise on the wealthy is partly responsible for the current slowing in growth. It takes time for these things to be felt, it started being felt near the end of President Clinton's term. It's simple economics. Read some books, and you'll learn that the less regulated and controlled an economy is, the better it will be, over time, than one that is heavily regulated. Yes, taxes are a form of regulation, as they slow down growth, by removing money from the economy. I don't advocate no taxes, obviously we need a government, and obviously it will have to tax us somewhat. All I say is that taxes are too high. Remember, you pay Federal, State, and Local taxes. There are many layers that you are not taking into account.

[denverbill]

29. Oh good grief.

Clinton's 1993 tax increase took 6 years to have an impact? What the hell school of economics did you go to anyway? I may not be an economist, but I did take graduate level economics classes, and I can guarantee you that significant changes in tax rates have almost immediate impacts. It's only crazy freeper-types that would attempt to blame a 1993 tax change for the economy in 2001 and beyond, and the only reason they do it is because they are unwilling to accept responsibility. Irresponsibility is a hallmark of Republicans unfortunately. When they screw up, it's always somebody else's fault. Blame Clinton, blame liberals, blame Democrats.

As long as we are reading books, why don't you read The Good Old Days, They were Terrible. It describes the reality of life in the good old US of A before all those regulations were put into place, before unions made workplaces safer. Before you going signing the praises of deregulation, why not explore the world of slumlords, factory soot, urine and feces and trash lined streets, snake oil salesmen, and robber barons.

Pure socialism doesn't work, but pure capitalism isn't any better.

[salin]

30. short term vs long term costs.

The tax burden has shifted downwards. Folks like yourself - in the middle - are likely paying more net taxes over the next couple of years than has been gained. The federal government has cut what it pays to states for various services. The states both cut services but still have to pay more to provide the more limited services. This also trickles down to local governments (paid less by states and feds). As a result many states have had to raise various taxes, and property taxes have risen in many localities as well. Worse services, higher taxes, and a minimal tax cut.

In our community it is likely that without a big tax hike that the emergency medical service (READ: AMBULANCES) will cease to exist except for those with insurance.

We just had 20% cut to a small budget service agency for emergency transitional youth shelter (serves homeless, abused and other kids in crisis).

Homeless shelters were closed earlier this year.

The list goes on.

By the way - I don't get a cent of the biggest tax cut of the latest "stimulus" package because my investments are in IRAs, as is true for many Americans.

Go look at the item I linked above from the GAO - at the increased liability of each American to cover the increased debts. These aren't tax cuts, they appear to be tax deferments - so the cycle of having to pay MORE while receiving more and more limited services is likely to continue.

The problem with what you suggest - that the top end fuels the economy, is that macro-economic data does not support it. I suggest you read Princeton Economist Paul Krugman's article on the myths of the tax cuts.

Yes we pay more than we would like. We do not pay more than other industrial countries - we just get less for what we pay. The problem is the current policies are killing our fiscal soundness as a nation. Did you know that to finance last years debt more than 58% of that debt was sold (treasury bills and the like) to foreign investors - many from Asia (and a growing chunk to China)? Did you know that in the past month the International Monetary Fund sent TWO warning notes to our country - something I have never heard of happening before - and something generally reserved for developing countries teetering on potential financial collapse? One was for the astronomical Trade Deficit; the other was for the disproportionate size of our Budget Deficit. We are in trouble. Tying the hands of those who really can set us back on the path of solvency (and further away from the precipice of another Depression that we keep stepping closer to - when considering the level of leveraged debt of many major companies, the record high numbers of home foreclosures and filings for bankruptcies - and wondering what happens if the banks start calling in these debts... or the record high levels of credit card debt held by most families - this happening during a period of net joblosses each month?) is dangerous - as it condemns us to eventual collapse. Sorry - but slightly higher taxes - or a lasting recession that could tip into depression - which is a better eventuality for this country.

http://www.noblit.com/docs/The-Tax-Cut-Con.pdf

Until the public begins to understand what we really face, I fear that we will continue to teeter on the edge of a real serious financial disaster.

[fizzana]

23. Federal spending has increased by 16.5% in each year

since Bush became pResident. In addition, the Federal government has added over 1 million employees since then.

So much for the GOP = smaller government.

[LeftHander]

28. Low Wage, borrow and spend, Feed the rich, eat the poor Republicans

eom

[sandnsea]

31. Iraq infrastructure

We need to find a quote where Bush says a country has to have a sound infrastructure to have a sound economy. Then we just turn that right around to finally knock it through people's heads that investing in infrastructure has to be done here or we'll end up in the same kind of mess Iraq is in. They're blaming Saddam for not investing in his infrastructure and taking care of his people, turn it right around on Republicans. They're doing the same thing here at home.