Joe Conason leaves four men standing: Clark, Kerry, Lieberman, Dean..

[KoKo]

In his latest Salon article he urges everyone else to just "fahgedaboudit."


I think all those other candidates are bringing issues to the forefront which Americans who aren't political need to know about. I think it's too early to suggest "dropping out" for the good of the party. That sounds very DLC to me. And, while I don't believe for one minute that Conason is a DLC supporter......I believe this is a mistake for him to urge the rest of the candidates to fold up their tents and go away when they represent such strong parts of our party. Moseley-Braun (women and minoritys), Gebhardt (Labor), Kucinich (Anti-Iraq Invasion, Nafta, and rights for the little guy), Graham (Anti-Iraq Invasion, investigations into Bush's policies), Sharpton (well he's just darned good at point out the Repug lies and distortions).

So, I'm disappointed in Joe this morning........It's too early to ask these folks to go. Wes Clark may be many folks idea of the "White Knight" who will save the party....but just because he's come in.....doesn't mean the others should just go home.

Quote:

Meanwhile, the unedifying spectacle of Democratic
pseudo-candidacies continues. Exactly what is the purpose of
the Braun campaign, except to offer the leaders of NOW an
opportunity to embarrass their members? What is the aim of the
Kucinich campaign, or the Sharpton campaign, other than to give these gentlemen a few more
months of bemused media attention? For that matter, what is the point of the Graham
campaign? The Gephardt and Edwards efforts are now at the edge of plausibility, too.

Before anyone starts writing a scolding e-mail, please be assured that I know all these people
have a perfect right to run. This is America, where anyone can run for president -- or at least
for governor of California.

But this is no time for protest or educational campaigns -- or vanity candidacies, which is what
all of the under-10-percent no-hopers are. If any of these worthies believes that defeating
Bush is important -- as they all earnestly profess -- then they will promote that objective best
by stepping out of the limelight, shedding their circus costumes, and deciding which of the real
candidates they prefer.
http://www.salon.com/news/index.html

[WilliamPitt]

1. "shedding their circus costumes"

is a little harsh.

[clar]

2. I tend to think

that it would be better if Graham, Lieberman, Kucinich, Mosely-Braun and Sharpton dropped out by the end of the year. There are too many candidates. I agree with Will that the circus costume remark is too harsh, but as more people tune it, it's preferable that the less viable candidates drop out. Otherwise it kind of does have a circus atmosphere. Before you flame me, I want to state that I think all of these people have brought substance to the table, but they're going nowhere.

[KoKo]

4. By the end of the year......yes......but Conason says Now.....my read of

his article. It's too soon.......we have the debates.....more people will start to pay attention....but yes, in another month or so.

[Bucky]

22. suppressing the debate

I don't buy the idea that we have to shut up the "fringe" candidates. Running a "single focus" campaign--as Kucinich, Sharpton, or some other candidates are doing--is not just about getting free media time for one's ideas as Connason states.

Rather, getting "free media time" is about airing out the public ideas and issues that will matter over the four years beginning January '05. Connason's view seems to be that only recognizeable Alpha Males need apply. Sorry, but our democracy isn't just a popularity contest. It's a discourse, a "multilogue" among a nation of a quarter billion people trying to decide what we need to do to get along.

If some of us have to sit down and shut up in the back of the room for Joe Connason to be happy, then "democracy" means a system in which Joe Connason ain't happy. The primaries when the people vote is when the status of fringe candidate is to be officially awarded. The convention is when the status of standard bearer is to be awarded.

Joe needs to be more patient.

[trogdor]

23. That wasn't the point at all.

The point is, it isn't a contest, but a free-for-all. At some point, the "fringe" candidates are going to have to drop for the sake of the party. I do not dispute this.

Can you imagine a scenario where we went into the convention with delegates split amongst ten people, none of whom have more than 20%? This is a disaster waiting to happen. I hope to God we have a clear front-runner SOON, or else we won't have a candidate until mid-summer. Want to see George W. Bush for four more TERM LIMITED years? Keep on encouraging the one-percenters to hang on.

[LeahMira]

30. In another month???

No, no, no, no, NO!!!

I have my favorites, but each one of the candidates brings his or her own special gifts to the arena.

Someone on another thread did a great job of listing each of the candidates' strengths. That was a superb post!

Sure, some candidates will pull out but not in another month!!! It's been said that people don't remember ads until they've heard them at least ten times, and since each of the candidates has good things to say, let's at least give each of them ten outstanding opportunities to be heard nationally. The more good ideas the Democrats can put out there, the better our chances of winning over the majority of voters.

[LeahMira]

31. In another month???

No, no, no, no, NO!!!

I have my favorites, but each one of the candidates brings his or her own special gifts to the arena.

Someone on another thread did a great job of listing each of the candidates' strengths. That was a superb post!

Sure, some candidates will pull out but not in another month!!! It's been said that people don't remember ads until they've heard them at least ten times, and since each of the candidates has good things to say, let's at least give each of them ten outstanding opportunities to be heard nationally. The more good ideas the Democrats can put out there, the better our chances of winning over the majority of voters.

[xJlM]

3. Not the first time I ever disagreed with Joe

He's one of the good guys, but he has the right to be wrong, too. This is still America, and we're the "opposition" party, the Democrats. I also think a few surprises might be in store for the talking heads from American citizens disgusted by the direction our country is heading.

[Egnever]

5. The fact that he includes lieberman in his short list

Destroys any credibility he might have had right off the bat.

[WilliamPitt]

7. Easy to lose credibility in your eyes, huh.

Happens fast. Right before the threats. Tough guy. ;)

[Starpass]

6. At one point it crossed my mind and then I realized the advantages

of all of them staying in over the next months. That's how many more people out there spending their campaign warchests to get the message out to as many people as possible about this administration. It's sort of like saying: Gee, we have so many bashing Bush ads so why don't we get rid of a few of them?? Hell no, there are never too many Bush bashing ads or candidates out there. Let the word go forth upon the land.........

[w4rma]

9. Yup. I agree, Starpass, assuming they don't shoot one another too much nt

[Padraig18]

15. Yes!

Let's keep our sights trained on the REAL enemy--- the B.F.E.E.! We don't need casualties from 'friendly fire'.

[iambe]

8. I agree with his opinion

And it's just an opinion. Nothing to get upset about.

[nomaco-10]

10. "Now"

Maybe "now" is a subjective term in his mind. I have to agree that some of the candidates need to drop out soon, to be more specific, December. Kucinich, Graham, Sharpton and Mosley-Braun supporters may discover they like Dean or maybe even Clark. Edwards and Gephardt supporters may choose Lieberman, Kerry or even Clark. There needs to be a time of healing for some of the enthusiastic supporters of a couple of the candidates so that they can give the front runners a good second look. Just my opinion. I strongly disagree with Conason however, that Lieberman has a chance of being one of the last dems standing.

[spooky3]

11. My humble opinion: Give the primary system a chance. n/t

[shimmergal]

19. The reason Lieberman comes out high in a lot of polls

is his name recognition, due to the 2000 campaign. As the other candidates get more coverage, his poll ranking etc. will probably drop.

[KoKo]

21. I still had hopes Kucinich&Edwards could get a little more recognition.

Just to hang in a little longer, because to have Lieberman replace them in the top four......ugh. I don't think Lieberman has debated well at all. So, it really is just the name recognition the same as with Clark who was seen on CNN during the Iraq Invasion. TV name/face recognition is worth everything. Just look at what it's done for that ass Schwartzenegger that he played Conan and Terminator..... We gotta do better than this.

[LeahMira]

29. Lieberman has his "fans"...

Just to hang in a little longer, because to have Lieberman replace them in the top four......ugh. I don't think Lieberman has debated well at all.

Lieberman looks moderate. Some of the other candidates (be honest now!) look radical to Mr. and Mrs. Average American.

It frustrates me too, because outside the U.S., our "radical" is more center right, but mainstream Americans, who to date haven't had a major panic over Bush's behavior, now see things from a sort of skewed perspective.

[KoKo]

32. Lieberman ran with Gore.....and Gore won! There's still alot of loyalty.

We DU'ers have moved beyond because we've been so involved in his votes and see he wasn't Gore's best choice.....but average Dems......still remember Lieberman. And, he knew that.....that's why he ran again........imho, anyway.

[pansypoo53219]

12. why can't he see

that lieberputz has nothing but name recognition?

[farmbo]

13. McCain- Fiengold allows candidates to "employ" themselves, relatives...

...on their campaign staffs, paying unregulated salaries with donated campaign cash. I'm not insinuating that any given candidate is simply finessing the system, but this makes campaigning (and legally raising funds) attractive for even the most longshot candidates. All they need is an 800 number and a website and they're up and running. (Why do you think this country has so many TV preachers?)

This could permanently change the dynamics of primary campaigns and make it harder to "broker out" fringe candidates.

[KoKo]

36. Interesting perspect farmbo....about McCain/Feingold....and you know it's

being dumped.....by our Dems......and they have some merit in their complaints...They say "Unfair Competition to Repugs" but what you say about 800 number and a website.....well...that works both ways......and it really could change the dynamics of primaries...but I think it would make "fringies" stronger ...yet you think it brokers them out....I don't know...

Could you explain more about "brokering out?" I saw the report on C-Span this weekend about demise of McCain Feingold...and the ramifications...but I don't know what your take is.....

[AP]

14. Conason confuses me. He's really really harsh on Nader.

I'm harsh on Nader, but Conason makes me cringe when he's harsh on Nader, and I think it was Conason who had the article in the Guardian defending the BBC (and I know plenty of people here defend the BBC, but there's actually a really subtle debate there which Conason doesn't seem to understand), and now this.

I loved The Hunting of the President and have accepted it all as neutrally reported fact, but when I read things like this it makes me wonder if I should rethink my take on his books (ie, accept that one or two passages might be spin).

And of all people, Conason should appreciate that a guy at the same place Clinton was at in Sep 91 could win this.

[tinanator]

16. he's an idiot (conason)

screw him.

[AP]

17. He's not an idiot. I just think that he seems willing to jump into

a debate which he hasn't fully considered and, perhaps, he's too willing to do what he percieves the Clinton wing of the Dem party wants (and, hey, I'm a member of the Clinton wing of the Dem party, but I'm not afraid of Nader, and I see that the BBC entertainment assets should be privatized and NOT sold off at cut rate prices to insiders), and I see that Lieberman needs to drop out and that Edwards is definitely a final-four contender.

[WilliamPitt]

18. Really?

Do tell.

[AntiCoup2K4]

20. I can see the guy's point, but Lieberman????

I would agree that this race cannot possibly go until June, much less the convention. As far as I'm concerned, the presumptive nominee as of Super Tuesday should pick a running mate, and concentrate on taking down the Bush Criminal Empire.

The alternative plan is that we just bag the primary season altogether, call an emergency convention and determine whether the ticket will read "Dean/Clark" or "Clark/Dean", but I'm not sure we're quite ready for that yet. :evilgrin:

[dolstein]

28. Lieberman's the only moderate in the race

All of the other candidates are running to the left. Being the only moderate in a ten candidate field isn't necessarily a bad place to be, especially when early primaries will be held in states like Arizona, Oklahoma and South Carolina.

Also bear in mind that the typical Democrat has a much more favorable opinion of Lieberman that the typical DU'er.

[KoKo]

33. But, Dolstein....so many of us here on DU disagree with Lieberman's votes!

How can you say he's a moderate? Many of us think he's so far to the Right!

Why do you like him so much.....I really want to know.

[dolstein]

38. You have to be pretty far to the left to think Joe's on the right

Lieberman's not a right-winger. He's not even a centrist. He's solidly left-of-center. He just isn't as far to the left as the other candidates seeking the Democratic nomination. I know that there are those around here who think that anyone to the right of Dennis Kucinish must be a closet Republican. I'm not one of those people.

I like Joe because I find him to be down to earth, honest and thoughtful. I also agree with him on most issues, just as I agreed with Bill Clinton on most issues.

[Larkspur]

24. Clark only leads in a national poll, but not in early primary states

Clark isn't threatening a lead in either Iowa or New Hampshire. Of course, if he is a candidate sent into torpedo Dean in the South, his candidacy makes more sense in that light because Clark himself has no vision for this country. His announcement speech was pathetic.

[mlawson]

25. Who cares what Conason thinks??

Circus costumes, my big brown eye!!!! Who appointed him Supreme Weeder-Outer???

With 'friends' like him..... :eyes:

[KoKo]

34. I'm really down in the dumps over this.....I can't believe he said that!

And, I was telling my hubbie the other night......."It seems everyone in my Liberal Blog/Columnist network....those folks whom I've read since Clinton's "Troubles" have started to let me down.....they are all running after Wesley Clark like he's a "Krispy Creme Donut" and if Joe Conason goes.....I'm going to "jump out the window."

Well.....Joe did it today.....but I'm trying to figure out why he did it. His article was so harsh...I'm still in a tailspin.....but I'm trying to think....is he telling us something?

I think....he's going to push Clark..Like his buddy in the Clinton fiasco years, Gene Lyons is doing.....so that Kerry will end up the "Formidable Compromise."

For some reason......Dean isn't going down will with our "liberal left" columnists.....the folks we love so much that we are scratching our heads and puzzling over......why, why, why.....

I just did a post about this......They want Kerry, I think......it's the only reason I can think of of why they would let us down......our hero's.

[MIMStigator]

37. Occam's Razor

"For some reason......Dean isn't going down will with our "liberal left" columnists.....the folks we love so much that we are scratching our heads and puzzling over......why, why, why....."


Maybe it's simple. They don't want to lose and they think Dean will lose?

[PurityOfEssence]

26. Lieberman's existence on the list shows the idiocy of the pronouncement

There is no justification for this name being there. He hasn't a prayer to be nominated.

Why is everybody in the media so damned panicky? Why are we terrified and in such cringing need for an answer now? It's just ridiculous.

Edwards is still the most electable against Junior in a general election, and I will stand by that fatuous pronouncement.

[dolstein]

27. I'd add Gephardt and Edwards to the list

I think it's possible to come up with scenarios under which Dean, Kerry, Clark, Lieberman, Gephardt or Edwards get the nomination. Some are more far-fetched than others, but I think it's too soon to write any of them off. But I'm finding it increasingly difficult to envision how Graham gets the nomination, especially now that there are THREE Southernors in the race. And let's face it, Sharpton, Braun and Kucinich never had a prayer of getting the nomination. They'd have an easier time winning the lottery.

[KoKo]

35. Believe it or not...there's some Kucinich support here in NC....

and it's from what's known as the "Angry Left" but it's there.....I don't know whom they will throw their vote to, though.......

And they are "Will Pitt's Oldies" although I've seen a smattering of "youngies."