So I was talking to the drug company guy about some bad pills...

[Bruce McAuley]

That my wife had gotten on prescription for pain, but they were instead acting as speed would. No pain relief, VERY buzzy, hard to sleep, loss of appetite, loss of weight. He, as representative flack for that company, says first of all he'd need 20 pills to do an analysis of their OWN pill. He disclaimed all responsibility for what happens to the pills after they go out their door to the wholesalers. The pharmacy, which I trust, says they get all their pills from wholesalers. The STATE board of pharmacy tells me there are only 3 wholesalers in the entire state of Washington, and HIS office only regulates the pharmacies, NOT the product. The FDA only seems to issue warning and recall bulletins buried in pages of irrelevant stuff that's weeks old, while a prescription is usually gone in a month or less, and bad pills are NOT publicized, apparently. The company flack told me the pills are mostly cellulose "filler" with F&D dye and the active ingredient, which is very little of the pill.
The strange thing is that within the last 10 months, we have gotten 3 bad prescriptions, two of which have made her extremely depressed, almost suicidal. We stopped the latest prescription, and she returned to normal.
These are LEGAL drugs, available only by prescription, two different pain killers, since she has fibromyalgia pretty bad, and one heart regulator, which she quit using after THAT episode, lemme tell ya!
So here's the point: How many OTHER DU'ers have gotten bad LEGAL drugs, ones you use regularly, but had strange symptoms that MIGHT have been ONE bad batch of pills in a routine normally you can count on with drugs?
Just wondering if my wife is TOO sensitive to drugs, or if they're really just letting their "quality control" go to hell. I certainly don't realistically expect the FDA to protect me, so we've cut our prescription drug use to only painkillers for her now, and we just took a batch of hydrocodones back to our doctor to dispose of, and went to a different brand and manufacturer.
Maybe we need a Craigslist of bad drugs reported by people DAILY, instead of buried in the stats weeks later.
Anyone?

Bruce

[Cobalt Violet]

1. My first thought was that someone switched her pill.

Someone took her pain killers and replaced them with something else.

[Bruce McAuley]

5. We thought about that too...

But there is NO effective control of the chain of distribution, which is the point the drug company flack made.
I know the FDA doesn't keep much if ANY watch on the suppliers/wholesalers. But when do the ones siphoned off get to be a large percentage of the total supply, and who's gonna sqeal when they're making lots of money? They came in bottles of 100 dispensed by the pharmacist, and 12 to a case.
Why can't we have a REAL Pure Food and Drug Act?
I thought that was passed 100 years ago, and now we casnnot trust our supply any more, apparently. The other one was Metaprolol, a heartbeat regulator, and I tried 1/2 of one, and it regulated MY heart, and made me feel exceedingly "edgy" for about 6 hours. It had the real drug in it, but something else also.
The Jungle, Part 2?

Bruce

[Dee625]

2. I take it you verified that the Rx contained the correct drug? n/t

[Richard Steele]

3. You need a copy of the "Physician's Desk Reference". (any good library)

You can identify that pill PRECISELY by its size, shape, color, and any markings.
I agree with CobaltViolet, it doesn't sound like "bad" medicine as much as COMPLETELY DIFFERENT medicine.

EDIT: found a website to ID pills by appearance. It might be worth your time.
http://www.drugs.com/pill_identification.html

[TwilightZone]

8. The problem with the PDR...

is that it only includes the information included in the package inserts. The package inserts (and, therefore, the PDR) generally only include primary side effects and tend to gloss over secondary side effects or those that are uncommon.

Many web sites include much more in-depth information about the drugs and their related side effects. In fact, the best source of information - believe it or not - is often the manufacturer's own web site, because they often include extensive details on testing, etc.

[Richard Steele]

20. I agree with that.

I was referring only to eliminating the possibility you mentioned below:
that this was the wrong drug altogether.

In-depth discussions of RARER side effects will certainly take longer to find.

[TwilightZone]

4. Please keep in mind that not all people react to medications the same way.

The variance in side effects of any particular medication can be huge, so it is not a certainty that the pills were "bad". It may simply be that your wife had an uncommon reaction to the medication.

It is also possible that your wife is ultra-sensitive to medications, in general. I personally tend to experience side effects that are unusual or extreme and my doctor has said that there is a small percentage of the general population that has similar experiences.

My suggestion, if you haven't already done so, is to research the drugs yourself via a website like webmd.com. Usually, these sites are pretty thorough and may cover the types of side effects that your wife is experiencing. The package inserts tend to list only the primary side effects, while many web sites will list all side effects experienced during testing, regardless of how minor or uncommon.

It's also possible, of course, that she's having a reaction to one of the inert ingredients or fillers.

Disclosure: my wife is a pharmacist, and I, unfortunately, have had a great deal of personal experience with prescription medications. I've done more drug research than I would ever recommend for human consumption. :)

[TwilightZone]

7. Follow-up to above.

As far as quality control goes, most major drug companies have very, very strict quality control procedures, so the likelihood of a screwup in the medication itself is very low.

A problem at the wholesaler is a possibility. Some wholesalers import drugs from other countries (because they're cheaper) and the foreign medications may not be required to meet the same kind of quality control levels. Drugs imported from Mexico, Central America, South America, etc., have been known to be problematic. Sometimes, they're not even the same drugs. Drugs from Canada are generally OK because they're almost always the exact same drugs (from the same companies) as those sold in the US.

There is, of course, the possibility that your wife was given the wrong medication by the pharmacy. Find a web site that shows pictures and make sure that your medication looks like what she was given. Some pharmacies even include a description of what the pills should look like - check the printouts included with her medication by the pharmacy (if any).

[Horse with no Name]

6. This is funny you mention that

Cause my neighbor called the other day. She got a prescription for Clindamycin. She said that after she took it, she felt groggy and sleepy. That is a VERY odd reaction to an antibiotic--so I looked it up (I have PDR software on my computer).
However, the generic manufacturer was one that wasn't listed in the PDR and it was based overseas.
I couldn't find any reference to this drug--so I suggested she call the pharmacy to verify it since I couldn't.
With more and more of these generic drugs that are manufactured in other countries--two points--I don't see how we can make an argument that we shouldn't buy drugs from Canada, and the other being are we 100% certain that they are safe and that they are what we are told they are?

[Bruce McAuley]

9. I was talking to my state legislator about that last week...

He used to be my neighbor, and he thought the pills in Canada were of inferior quality, according to the paperwork he saw as a legislator in hearings in Olympia.
I think the Metaprolol WAS the correct drug, just grossly overstrength, possibly. who knows what damage it might have done to a real old person who was more frail?
I DO know we can;t trust what we get at the pharmacy, and I have known the pharmacists for decades, and I trust them. He mentioned they try to get the best prices, but he is struggling to stay in business, as the OBNLY pharmacy in our small town, as well as the county. He sells what they give him.

Bruce

[Horse with no Name]

11. I wish I could remember the name of this generic drug company

but it escapes me.
I had never heard of it before and it is based in India.

[TwilightZone]

12. Re: METAPROTERENOL (Metaprolol) side effects

http://my.webmd.com/drugs/mono-222-METAPROTERENOL+-+INHALATION+SOLUTION.aspx?title=METAPROTERENOL+-+INHALATION+SOLUTION

The side effects sound like exactly what you're seeing:

SIDE EFFECTS:
Tremor, nervousness, shakiness, headache, nausea, heartburn, lightheadedness, difficulty sleeping, unusual taste in mouth, hoarseness or dry throat may occur the first several days as your body adjusts to the medication. If any of these effects continue or become bothersome, inform your doctor.

[Bruce McAuley]

16. Well yes, but...

Panic, anxiety, and suicidal depression aren't on the list.
When the drug was discontinued, symptoms ceased. This was after her taking Metaprolol for 2 years. She was sufficiently acclimated to have figured out the side effects. The pills were seriously overstrength, my opinion.
Say, you don't know where I could get them analyzed, do you? I got about 20 of them.
It might be the cellulose or dyes they're switching, possibly.

Bruce

[TwilightZone]

17. Drug analysis...

This may sound strange, but you could check with your local or state law enforcement agencies. They have to send samples in for drug analysis all the time, of course, so they may be able to provide you with the name of the analysis center they use.

Edit: many universities have toxicology centers, as well.

[TwilightZone]

10. At the risk of getting flamed...

you really should be discussing these issues with her doctor, particularly before deciding to stop taking any medication. Some medications, such as heart meds and long-term asthma meds, can be very dangerous to discontinue cold-turkey.

Also make sure that her primary doctor is aware of ALL medications that she is currently taking, including over the counter stuff. Some medications can have nasty side effects when combined with something as benign-seeming as aspirin or multi-vitamins.

And, lastly, no offense, but a public internet forum is probably not the best source of good information on potentially life-threatening issues. What you're going to get out here is largely based on personal experiences and perhaps not "real" knowledge or information.

[Bruce McAuley]

13. Yer darned tootin' it's potentially life threatening...

I personally think this is EXACTLY the place to air this problem.
No flames, but do you work for a drug company?
I will agree that more often than not a person gets exactly what the doctor ordered, and the system has worked acceptably up until about a year ago, but now it seems the system is cracking, and we at the far end(literally) are starting to see a point where we don't trust what comes at us.
Are there too many fingers in the pie, and some are too greedy?
Are the drug companies buying cheaper ones overseas, and putting them in with their own?
Is the cellulose they use polluted by some contaminants?
I don't know, but I have learned to check with my wife about 2 or 3 days into a prescription, and see if they work, and if she's feeling depressed or speedy.
I'm fast becoming a fan of herbal remedies.

Bruce

[TwilightZone]

15. Please read up on the drug, because the side effects are EXACTLY what you

are describing.

From webmd.com:

SIDE EFFECTS:
Tremor, nervousness, shakiness, headache, nausea, heartburn, lightheadedness, difficulty sleeping, unusual taste in mouth, hoarseness or dry throat may occur the first several days as your body adjusts to the medication. If any of these effects continue or become bothersome, inform your doctor.

No offense, but you seem more interested in bashing the pharmaceutical industry than in finding out real information that might help your wife.

And, no, I don't work for any pharmaceutical company, and I have no interest in one, financial or otherwise.

My wife, however, is a pharmacist and we're discussing this as I type. Misunderstandings like yours are all too common. People readily assume that drugs should act a very specific way and assume that side effects don't or shouldn't happen.

In your case, the side effects you described are explicitly spelled out in the package inserts that come with the drugs and readily available on the internet.

Edit: this is my final entry on this subject. I've given you what advice I can. It's up to you to decide whether or not you want to believe it. I honestly wish you and your wife the best of luck in dealing with her conditions.

[Bruce McAuley]

19. Thanks! I don't blame the pharmacist...

And appreciate your wife's knowledge.
I'm not necessarily bashing the drug companies, or the "regulators" or the wholesalers or the pharmacists or the legislators, but on the other hand who's on OUR side? Who's looking out for the consumer if the pharmacy is forced to sell only a select variety of pills at an essentially fixed price(always too high), and the money that's being made is NOT by him, but further up the chain and he knows it.
Who bears ANY responsibility with a system like this?
Where does the buck stop?
Consumer, protect yourself!

Bruce

[Blue Diadem]

14. Here's a list of recalled drugs from one company

I remember hearing about a recall on meds..the company in the USA had ceased production due to problems. I heard a snippet on tv and then looked for days in the newspaper and online. Hubby finally found it at FDA.

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2005/NEW01182.html

I don't know if your wife's drugs are on the list..it's lengthy, with drug names and code numbers. It explains more at the link.

Edited to explain a little more.

[Bruce McAuley]

18. Yup, I checked them out too...

But it seems the recalls are WEEKS out of date, and the numbers of pills might be only a small percentage of the TOTAL amount of pain pills, for instance.
The Placebo Effect alone accounts for 40% of drug satisfaction, but it's harder to fool fibromyalgia patients, they KNOW when the pills are working or not.
Bad ones are getting through the system, whether all the way from the manufacturer, or by sticky fingers in the distribution chain, or just contaminants, I don't know but it worries me that others might be getting them too, with little or no warning.

Bruce