This isn't the Seventies! Will it take more than the DSM to topple Bush?

[icymist]

Both houses of Congress are controlled by Republicans. The Media, outside of the Internet, is practically worthless as for spreading any truthful messages. The Downing Street Minutes come from another government, free of our laws, regulations, and standards of scrutiny of our so-called press. All this and our leaders seem content on following the same course, as from the beginning of this war, fighting terror, as if expecting a different result this time around! Expecting another 'Deep throat' to come along isn't, in my humble opinion, going to do it. There has to be more than 'inside informants' this time.

Just my thoughts. What do you think?

[libertypirate]

1. I think republicans want to be elected more then they want Bush

[icymist]

3. That's a good angle. Runs on the belief that Shrub is lame duck.

Problem is, the rest of the goons behind him is waiting for their chance.

[libertypirate]

5. Do you think anyone really wants the responsibility to clean up this mess

or worst become associated to it.

[Liberty Belle]

29. Not a duck. An albatross around the GOP's neck, weighting them down.

[KnightoftheRepublic]

2. Well

Let's just hope the repubs are decent enough to serve their country

[icymist]

7. Some Repubs are great. I'll grant you that. Neo-cons are another thing...

and I don't like what I've seen them do to our country. Welcome to the DU KnightoftheRepublic!! Maybe a separate thread is in order for Republicans who are true patriots to our country! What do you think?

[MessiahRp]

4. I think DSM is already a moot issue...

The media gave it the onceover and didn't press it too hard and Republicans have been able to spin and say that either it wasn't conclusive or that it was discredited (by whom I have no idea). They've even gone so far as to write LTTEs saying fixed is a language difference. (second one down: http://www.wisinfo.com/northwestern/news/opinion/stories/opinion_21434066.shtml)

They've mostly spun their way out of it already.

We just need to keep finding new bits of corruption and hammering the bastard with it every day. The DSM is damning but it is not conclusive enough to be the KO punch to this administration.

I do think though getting the still classified photos of real abuse from Abu Ghraib would hurt them pretty damn bad and at the very least knock Rumsfeld out.

Rp

[SnoopDog]

8. No offense Mr. Moderator, but... What?

It would appear that this is the absolute proof that these murderous bastards started a war for no reason. This IS what we need to get these bastards. The gun is in their hand, and it is smoking - big time.

These evil murderous bastards are not only destroying Iraq but America as well. We need to keep on the pressure to squeezes out the truth and these memos are the beginning of their end.

Keep up your good work...

[Fiona]

9. The moderator is right...

The DSM will go nowhere. Why? People ALREADY know the case for the war was rigged... and they DON'T CARE! They wanted a war - any war - and they got one.

People who think Bush will be impeached over this are just this side of delusional.

[SnoopDog]

10. Bull Shit. Hit the people in the face with the truth.

No offense, but your words are troubling....

[Fiona]

12. no offense taken

I find your words contrary to reality.

The only way to settle it is to see if Bush is impeached before his term ends. I bet he won't be.

[SnoopDog]

13. My words cannot be 'contrary to reality' ...

as no one can predict the future.

Did they/you say the same thing about Nixon?

[Fiona]

17. no

the idea that the DSM is a major blow to the Bush presidency is contrary to reality. It's been out for months - it's going nowhere. Why? Because we all KNOW they "fixed" the case for the war, but nobody cares.

I'm old enough to remember watergate well, though, and it WAS very different. It was a clear case of law-breaking by the President. Believe it or not, it's not a crime for the President to lie. It is a crime to order a break-in and then cover it up.

[SnoopDog]

18. Lying to Congress is a High Crime... Night - night... Bye-bye

[icymist]

20. Yeah. It's a High Crime. Problem is that too many of our foes are in power

So. Where do we go from here?

[SnoopDog]

24. Even REAL Republicans (not * suckers) are realizing that ...

there is a problem.

We do our thing. I do my thing. And, that is, I post here. I write letters to the editor. I sign petitions. Speak. Speak. Speak. I strike up conversation with strangers asking them 'what do you think about...." and pick your topic. Like, SS or Iraq, or pollution, or education - what ever you fell most passionate about and most knowledgeable about.

Puppet chimp's ratings are in the toilette. So is Congress's.

We have the momentum. Keep it going.

[Fiona]

21. No, it's not

despite what you think. Can you name a law against it?

Presidents have lied to congress for over 200 years.

[SnoopDog]

26. See >>>

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3887472

[Fiona]

27. don't point me to another DU thread...

make your argument here. Where is it illegal for a president to lie to congress?

[SnoopDog]

30. I'm sorry - I am tired and going to bed. I will discuss this point ...

tomorrow.

I am still troubled by your remarks... I will gladly respond to 'lying to Congress' and that it is a high crime - especially to go invade an innocent country.

[Fiona]

35. I'm not saying it's right

or acceptable. I'm saying it's not impeachable. Presidents have lied to congress for centuries. My point is simply that it's not an impeachable offense.

I want Bush gone as much as anyone. But the notion that he'll be impeached and removed is laughable. And even if it weren't, we'd be left with Cheney. It's a pipe-dream.

[SnoopDog]

37. As promised, here is the Statute

This would fall under High Crimes or Misdemeanors.


http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=18&sec=1001

U.S. Code as of: 01/06/03
Section 1001. Statements or entries generally

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any
matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or
judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly
and willfully -
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or
device a material fact;
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent
statement or representation; or
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the
same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent
statement or entry;
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5
years, or both.
(b) Subsection (a) does not apply to a party to a judicial
proceeding, or that party's counsel, for statements,
representations, writings or documents submitted by such party or
counsel to a judge or magistrate in that proceeding.
(c) With respect to any matter within the jurisdiction of the
legislative branch, subsection (a) shall apply only to -
(1) administrative matters, including a claim for payment, a
matter related to the procurement of property or services,
personnel or employment practices, or support services, or a
document required by law, rule, or regulation to be submitted to
the Congress or any office or officer within the legislative
branch; or
(2) any investigation or review, conducted pursuant to the
authority of any committee, subcommittee, commission or office of
the Congress, consistent with applicable rules of the House or
Senate.

[icymist]

15. What if Bush is impeached before his term ends?

Chaney would then take over and you know what we'll find? No difference in the way things are handled. I believe GWB is only the 'fall guy' if things go bad for the neo cons.

[SnoopDog]

25. All these pricks are guilty of the same crime...

And Impeachable... The last one standing might be Hassert - still a repuke.

I would hope that a unprecedented request for a new election would prevail.

[MessiahRp]

16. The problem is..

They still own the media and are allowed to cloud the issue enough to the point where only us on the Left can claim it's an issue and make us look like partisans who can't handle that Bush is in the White House, attacking him over nothing.

I am not saying that DSM is nothing but the Right has diluted it already so to wiggle out of it. From the regular everyday non-political person's aspect, the lack of coverage creates the lack of believability (not to mention how just about every talk show rails against DSM).

Rp

[SnoopDog]

22. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. It is up to us(?) to keep it going.

Watergate took, what, 18 months.....

Be positive and fight to regain our democracy.

I personally can fight on more than one front. I will not give up on exposing the truth on ANY fucking evil thing this bush administration is doing...

[Imagevision]

6. The DSM is growing daily - A march on Washington should be organized

Taking it to the streets - corporate media can only keep a closed eye for so long.

Milliom man-woman march on Washington, doing it like MLK would!!

[icymist]

11. Hey! I like you're thinking.

It'll have to be done differently though. I went on the '93 March On Washington (for GLBT) and that was pretty much ignored.

[Melodybe]

28. I'm organizing a Millions Against the Media March for Feb. 1, 2006

I already have people on the ground in Atlanta and LA. I have contacted the State Dems in NY, DC, GA, FL, and CA, they all seemed responsive and I am writing propsals to all.

Telling the media to go fuck itself on the 10th Anniversary of the Telecommunications Act is my idea of fun, I hope to see you there.

If anyone is interested in volunteering to do footwork, please PM me.

[togiak]

14. Nothing will come of it

How many serious scandals in the making has this president had? Tons! We've had the Plame Affair..nothing came of it.
We've had the forged yellowcake documents...nothing came of it.
We've had Bush caught in constant lies...nothing's come of them.
We've had pictures of abuse, memo's showing that torture was a Bush policy...and nothing's come of them.

This man is going to spend his entire two terms getting off scott free. Things may not be as easy for him this term but he will never be punished for anything. The people don't care. I have no idea why they don't but they don't. There could be video tape of Bush and Cheney making up intel on Iraq and they still wouldn't do anything about it.

I'm at the point where I don't get my hopes up anymore.

[fla nocount]

19. What a ray of sunshine you miserable putzes are.

The BFEE is an offering from our masters. Let's eat em. They failed because of the net.

Agnew/Nixon was a nice meal, I enjoyed it for 30 years. They failed because of the print/TV media.

Hitler/Mussolini was our nations best burp to date. They failed because of the telegraph and global banking.

We can take this back through Prince Ferninand, the death of european aristocracy in WWI, to the newspapers and coffee houses of Elizabethan England and back to the crusades.

We've bought ourselves some breathing space. Believing it so makes it so because as consumers we dictate the rules, no consumption=nosupply.

But these bastards are patient beyond belief. We just need to remember than all victims are WILLING victims. That's what free will is all about, don'cha know?

Don't tell them that I shared this secret with you or they'll break my fingers and I have to work tomorrow.

[icymist]

23. Okay. How do we eat them?

Please show the way. I'm all ears at this point.

[fla nocount]

31. Look forward to the innocuous Ford years with something along

the line of the black-ops Iran-contra playing in the background. Then watch for something along the lines of Reagan to prep another run at making the world round again. Maybe by then we'll be telepathic and they'll just have to blow our asses away. No, that won't work because they depend on us as consumers...maybe they'll be willing to talk.

Going to bed now. Found a job this morning and had a lovely day here at DU. May spirit bless all of you, my beautiful, intelligent and indignantly aroused friends. You will see, it will be worth it and meanwhile, damn, it just feels so much better to bitch into oblivion.
wink out

[icymist]

34. Good luck at your new job.

I sure hope it's better than your telekinesis ability. Again, this is not the Seventies.

[fla nocount]

36. No it's not, It's the history of mankind and how we've always behaved

towards each other. Eat or be eaten is "their" view, "there's plenty to spare, enough to share" is our attitude. We've been two armed, two legged, oxygen dependent carbon-constructs on this tiny blue marble
speeding through space for millinium. Nothing has really changed as regards supply and demand. There's the suppliers and the demanders. Without each other both are "poof". That there should be any antagonism is ridiculous and so is spawned "regulation" which inhibits "profit" and thus gets the whole thing started again. Bushco is just another abberation like the Coolidge/Hoover era that will get so ugly we'll find ourselves another FDR. Action/reaction don't you see.

Some might say that the sooner things get really bad, the sooner they'll get better. Like taking off a bandage, rip it all off....quick. Ah, much better, feel the air on it, ahhh.

Still, going to bed this time really. I hope the world is still here when I wake up,

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[understandinglife]

32. We have way more evidence, publicly available, and a vast internet-based

.... activist community, all of which did not exist in 1972 or 73 or 74.

I lived through every event of "Watergate" in DC, up close and personal.

WE THE PEOPLE have much, much more to work with TODAY than anyone had in June of 1973.

Let us make the most of it - humanity, civilization and "America" are at stake.


June 16, 2005 | A woman looks at a painting by Colombian artist Fernando Botero at the opening of a retrospective of his work in Rome's Palazzo Venezia. Botero's latest work deals with the prison abuse scandal in Abu Ghraib.
(Photo: The Washington Post)

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4173.htm


WE THE PEOPLE .... WILL NEVER FORGET

"... we sent our young people into harm's way without leveling with the American people." - Congresswoman Pelosi before Congress, 16 June 2005

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - Impeachment of Bush and Cheney; indictment and prosecution of all members of the Bush regime who participated in the deception, should be campaign promises of any candidate worthy of our vote in the 2006 Congressional elections.

[Zomby Woof]

33. You are correct

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3869487