Cops Raid Wrong Duplex With Noise Device Over 4ozs. of Marijuana

[Judi Lynn]

Cops Raid Wrong Duplex With Noise Device Over 4ozs. of Marijuana
2005-06-18 Source: www.southflorida.com

NAMPA, Idaho -- Police in this southwestern Idaho town raided the wrong duplex, throwing a powerful noisemaking device through the unit's window and standing outside with guns drawn.

John Simpson, convinced he was under attack Wednesday, said he hit the floor of his home, and took his wife down with him.

"I guess we're going to have to seek psychological help, I hate to say that," Simpson said Thursday. "I'm not nuts or anything, but I'm still shaking. Put a shotgun next to your ear and pull the trigger to get an idea of the noise."

A Nampa police officer had confused Simpson's window for that of residents who share a duplex with the 62-year-old Vietnam veteran, Assistant Chief Tim Vincent said. Police had intended to serve a search warrant in the adjacent unit. The officer threw the so-called "flash-bang" device in the window, breaking the glass and setting off a loud noise and light.
(snip/...)

http://www.hightimes.com/ht/news/content.php?bid=482&aid=24

[SouthernDem2004]

1. Things are louder then a shotgun. /nt

[Mythsaje]

2. This sort of thing

is all too common in the War On (Some) Drugs. At least this time no one died. That's happened before. Too many times they get the address wrong, or, even worse, act upon the tips of a "confidential informant" who is doing his level best to get out of trouble himself by turning in someone else.

[NicRic]

89. pot laws in this country are ridiculious !

How much of the tax payers $ was the PD wasting on this fiasco ,. The police invovled where probably so upset ,thay they to hgo by a galon of wiskey and drink til they could'nt remember just how stupid this was in drugs is . I wonder if even one of tem know that liquor kills more people every year then all of the other drugs combined. But I understand ,we all know how violent and dagerous them pot heads ca be !

[truthisfreedom]

3. presumption of innocence. remember the LAW?

IT'S THE LAW, motherfu**ers.

[Warpy]

4. That's not a good thing to do to anybody, but it's especially cruel

to a Vietnam vet, and most especially one who's over 60!

It's amazing how often these stories happen, some over militarized police force full of cowboys and yahoos getting the wrong address. Some people who've been awakened from a sound sleep by intruding police have reached for a handgun next to the bed and been shot to death.

One case of about 25 years ago had SWAT cops bursting into the wrong apartment and some clumpfooted jerk stomped a baby crawling on a quilt on the floor, injuring the kid badly enough to require hospitalization.

This stuff has GOT TO STOP!! END THE DAMNED DRUG WAR! WE LOST!

[tabasco]

5. I feel so much safer knowing cops are busting pot smokers.

4 oz. of pot and you would think they are raiding an Al-Qaeda cell.

The recent Supreme Court decision against medical marijuana should wake us all up to the fact that we need to seek change in the law.

END the War on the Bill of Rights (aka the war on drugs).

I believe the police agencies in this country are WAY out of control. The police / prison industry no longer exist primarily to protect us, but to perpetuate itself by attacking harmless citizens and collecting fines which would otherwise be spent in the economy.

Vote against more police.
Vote against more pay and benefits for police.
Vote for politicians that support drug law reform.

[AX10]

6. I agree, in part. Also, where are those "blind police defenders"?

you know, the one's that say it's a good thing when the cops taser someone at a traffic stop? Where are they now? These officers should be jailed for this criminal act.

:mad:

The Police were INTENDED TO KEEP THE PEACE within society. The Police are NOT PARAMILITARY agents!

[SouthernDem2004]

8. Ok, What law did they break? Maybe a noise ordinance but aside from that?

[TeeYiYi]

10. What about . . .

. . . the fact that they traumatized a Vietnam war vet? Maybe they didn't break a law in doing what they did but it was sure as hell insensitive, and in this case, the end result surely did not justify the means.

Don't you think there might have been another way to handle this situation?

TYY

[SouthernDem2004]

11. It was a mistake. Its not like they did it on purpose. A solution...

Mark your residence so the address is clear. I can not tell you how many times we have responded to a medical emergency and lost precious minutes trying to locate the residence.

[AX10]

14. Don't blame John Simpson. Also, remember...

this is an apartment complex. They shot through an outside window. Apartments do NOT put numbers on their windows. I have never seen an apartment with address numbers on their windows! :eyes:

You tell us about how the people need to be responsible, which they should be, but so should the police. It's a two way street.

[TeeYiYi]

16. This particular operation . . .

. . . seems a little high tech just to snag a stoner with 4 ounces. The article says their intent was to deliver a search warrant. So why didn't they? Why the need for a 'flash bang' device through the window? In the end, they still arrested the kid with the pot. Too bad the neighbor had to suffer from the excessive tactics. I don't think this was a case of a poorly marked residence. Just a poorly marked window which is poor planning on the cops' part. Why didn't they just knock on the perp's door, announce themselves and then break the door in? Why the need for all the theatrics? And over 4 ounces. It hardly sounds like a good use of tax payers' dollars.

TYY

[SouthernDem2004]

20. They wouldnt go through that much trouble just for pot.

They probably had reason to believe he was armed and would resist. Its not that easy to get a no-knock warrant which is what they had. To go to that much trouble there would have had to been more to the story. I have been in LE for numerous years and I can count the number of times we used flashbangs on one hand missing fingers.

[wuushew]

23. The correct sequence of events are as follows

(1) Obtain search warrant for a given premises

(2) With landlord present, knock on door and attempt to serve warrant. If door is locked attempt to enter premises without damage to property.

(3) If a dangerous situation is expected call for sufficient armed backed up and attempt via negotiation or other professionalism to diffuse the situation and uphold public safety.


I get really get tired of cops justifying playing fast and loose with civil liberties because it makes your jobs easier. That doesn't even speak to the ridiculousness of the reason for going after the suspect. He is alleged to have had 4oz and is suspected of an intent to distribute? How do they know that? Did law enforcement itself manufacture a undercover crime so that it could convict?

[SouthernDem2004]

24. Sorry but number 2 and 3 do not work...

A no-knock has two main purposes. 1) Denies suspect time to destroy evidence. 2) Denies the suspect time to arm themselves.

[wuushew]

27. The Supreme Court ruled in U.S. v. Banks that 15-20 seconds was reasonable

time given before entering a premises. How was throwing a flash bang device into a window compatible with this standard?

If you can't prove someone is breaking the law without shredding the 4th amendment among others, maybe you shouldn't bother going after non-violent criminals.

Police need to spend more time responding to traffic accidents instead of eating donuts and busting drug offenders. If you need to go after someone,bust meth producers. I doubt they are going to flush a meth lab down the toilet in under a minute.

[SouthernDem2004]

30. There is a difference between a no-knock warrant and a standard warrant.

[wuushew]

53. Why would no knock warrants ever be a good idea?

Seems like the unexpected break in by law enforcement is apt to injure both law enforcement and or the subject of the warrant. Especially in a gun happy state like Texas.

[SouthernDem2004]

60. The element of surprise...

Its more effective in some cases then knocking on the door and waiting for them to get their gun or destroy evidence.

[Pepperbelly]

94. and those warrants have gotten cops killed at wrong addresses.

It isn't worth it.

[SouthernDem2004]

99. Its better then knocking on the door in some cases. /nt

[Pepperbelly]

100. but in many other cases, it has been tragic.

Dead police officer. Otherwise law-abiding citizen convicted for defending his home against armed intruders. Tell me who wins in that scenario.

[SouthernDem2004]

103. It has only happened a very few times. Not "many."

[Pepperbelly]

106. It has happened where I live and ...

besides that, once is too many times and it is completely the fault of human beings executing no-knock warrants and making mistakes.

Either no-knock should be done flawlessly or it should be abandoned altogether. No-knock errors should result in harsh punishment comensurate with the seriousness of the error.

This is a policy that should be repealed by law just because of the impossibility of executing it flawlessly when anything less than flawless is just not acceptable. The individual officers who execute a no-knock warrant at the wrong address should, at a minimum, lose their jobs. The cost of such errors FOR COPS should be greater than the costs incurred by a law-abiding citizen defending his home against armed and anonymous intruders.

[SouthernDem2004]

113. Well when you find the perfect person that is flawless let me know...

[Pepperbelly]

115. are you being deliberately obtuse?

Without flawless people, the answer is to discontinue no-knock warrants.

[SouthernDem2004]

116. Correct.

[Pepperbelly]

120. LOL

You are TOOOOOOOOOO busy in this thread. But you're giving it a hell of a shot.

Peace.

[Zhade]

124. Same argument against the death penalty, and I fully concur with you.

NT!

[Zhade]

123. ONCE is one time too fucking many!

Police are paid to take risks. Sometimes the desire to NOT LET INNOCENTS OR COPS GET KILLED should override the desire not to take risks.

[alfredo]

142. How does a home owner differentiate between a home invasion

and a no knock warrant?

[MadHound]

122. Puhleeze, hell here in Missouri the Highway Patrol

Went out and spent five million dollars every summer for "pot" irradication. Trouble was, the pot they were irradicating, 98% of it, was ditch weed, old hemp crops left over from Missouri's hemp growing glory days. The cops knew they were wasting money, the governor and legislature knew they were wasting money, the public knew also. They still went ahead and did it. And they would still be doing it now, if it wasn't for the tightening of the state budget, and the recession of '01.

Sorry, but this sounds like more cowboy cops. Apparently after this fiasco was over, they went over and arrested the guy they were supposed to with no problem, no gunplay, he didn't even flee when he had a chance.

Sorry , but this looks like another case of cops gone wild.

[nonconformist]

132. Obviously they DID go through that much trouble for pot.

A paltry amount of pot at that.

[lies and propaganda]

35. so its the homeowners fault?

laughable.

[SouthernDem2004]

37. I do not recall anyone saying that.

[lies and propaganda]

41. this was in response to you saying

they should have made their address clearer.

[SouthernDem2004]

47. That was a response from someone asking for a solution...

That is the only one I can see that a citizen can do.

[Moocows]

134. Citizen? What about the cops?

[Elidor]

73. Yes, the clear lesson here is

Always spray-paint your street address underneath your windows. :eyes:

[Tsiyu]

88. Oh jesus h christ

You'd defend anything the cops did, wouldn't you? Over 4 fucking ounces of pot they can traumatize people? What if there was a small baby whose hearing was damaged for life?

What if some teenager accidentaly threw one of those in your cop car while you were patrolling? Would they break a law then? You'd probably taser the fuck out of them.

You really floor me, Dude. the POLICE are NEVER wrong in your opinion. And that's wrong. Dead wrong.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

90. Hey, bud...police are PAID to make the CORRECT decisions...

If you can't deal with that, or you feel that you have to constantly "justify" police mistakes, maybe you're in the WRONG dadgum profession, or you're on the dadgum WRONG board!

People have gotten KILLED by police mistakes in the past...do you want to justify that, too??

[SouthernDem2004]

92. Who justified the mistake???? Read all my post. Heck read the headers.

I never once defended kicking the wrong door.

[AX10]

13. What right did they have to assualt this man?

Is it really worth it for 4 oz.??? :eyes:

The officers should be ashamed that they failed in their duty.
Oh yes, the department better be ready to pay for ALL damages and psycologist bills too.

[SouthernDem2004]

21. Assault? How did they do that?

Yes, I am sure the city will pay to fix whatever they damaged if anything. His mental health is his own problem.

[recoveringrepublican]

28. Are you freaking serious?

What if there was a crib or something under that window? Glass everywhere? What if one of them had heart troubles? Was the noise loud enough to damage hearing? I would think being awaken like that IS assault. Thankfully this man didn't think he was undergoing some freaky ass home invasion, can only imagine how my husband would have reacted. This could have ended very badly, all for 4 oz of pot? Give me a fucking break!

I understand cops want to catch the "bad guys", but leave me the fuck alone please! Recheck the damn address. Do your damn job right, you have to much freaking power as it is, so as a law abiding citizen can I at least sleep at night without getting my window fucking smashed in for no fucking reason?

Sorry for the rant.......

[SouthernDem2004]

33. It still does not constitute an assault.

Big stupid mistake, yes.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

54. Next time I get a speeding ticket, can I say I thought the speed limit

was different, I assumed incorrectly therefore it's a mistake?

A mistake is grabbing deodorant instead of hair spray. When a "mistake" goes to the point of threatening a citizen's welfare, I would imagine that it would normally constitute a crime even though no one was hurt. Like a DUI with no accidents. Saying it's a mistake won't fly in that case.

[SouthernDem2004]

61. You are mistaken...

The courts have ruled that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

DUI is a crime regardless of injury or an accident. You lost me with that one...

A crime is a crime...

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

68. DUI is a crime because of potential results...

And using the logic of the police in question making an honest mistake therefore they should not be held culpable of any crime, the same case could be made for the DUI suspect found asleep behind the wheel of a parked car. He knew he shouldn't drive, so he decided to sleep it off in his car. He made the mistake of not getting rid of his keys and leaving them in his pocket.

This guy has done a responsible thing and now could face up to 10 years on a felony DUI conviction.

No harm, no foul? Not likely in this increasingly punitive society. Unless you are the enforcer of the legeslature... Then its just a mistake.

[SouthernDem2004]

75. The guy in your example you not be charged in most cases.

That is if he pulled off the road. Now if he passed out at a redlight...

:)

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

78. By law, he could be.... And would be if he were beligerant upon

being awakened by an officer.

Stupid, yes, that's why they call it ignorant oil. BUT, the actual "crime" is the same and in Alabama if he had two other convictions that could have occured 40 years ago, he could face a 10 year sentence.

[SouthernDem2004]

79. Yes, he can certainly be charged.

You are also correct he would be if he were beligerent.

DUIs have a shelf life though. In my state they stay on your record for 5 years. After that they can not count against you towards a felony.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

80. In Alabama, they stay on for a lifetime. Retroactive...

So, if you got a DWI in 1962, and 65 when you were a dumb kid and it wasn't looked at the same as it is today, a new DUI would be considered your third and would be a felony.

[MojoXN]

150. I WAS THAT SUSPECT!!!

Back in my younger days, when I was still drinking, I was at a New Years Eve Party that got shut down by the police. I had drank a few too many, and has planned to stay at the host's house that night. Well, the police came in and said, "If you don't live here, go home NOW!" So rather than risk getting arrested right then and there, I left. About a mile down the road, it became apparent that I was WAY too drunk to be driving. I remember explicitly thinking, "I'm a danger right now, and someone could get hurt." So I parked in a secluded wooded area to sober up.

Cut to three hours later. An officer is tapping on the window. I open it, and say, "May I help you officer?"

"Sir, have you been drinking?"

"Well, yes, but I haven't had anything for several hours. I wanted to make sure that I was OK to drive."

"Where are the keys to the vehicle?"

"Here, in my pocket."

"Step out of the car, sir. You're under arrest for driving under the influence."

"But I wasn't driving!" (At the time)

"If you're intoxicated in a vehicle, and have possession of the keys, you're driving the vehicle."

Long story short, I ended up refusing to take a breath test, spent the night in jail, and lost my license for a year. I learned two valuable lessons, though. First, DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE! EVER! and second, If you are sleeping in a vehicle and have been drinking, make sure to put the keys on a tire.

I hope that none of you have to find these things out the hard way.

MojoXN

[wuushew]

153. You should have taken the breathalyser test

and either lied about how you got there or refused to answer the officers question. Absent witnessing a vehicle in motion they are making unprovable assumptions about your behavior.

The worst they could of gotten you with was sleeping in a car or improper parking of a vehicle or some such.

[MojoXN]

154. No, in WV possession of the keys while intoxicated and in the vehicle...

constitutes DUI. The absolute BEST that I could have hoped for was that my BAC would have been below the legal limit by that time. As it was, by refusing to take the breath test I avoided several hundred dollars in fines, dozens of hours of community service, insuarnce increases, and the stigma of a DUI conviction. Plus, I would have lost my license for at least six months ANYWAY. If I had to do it over, I would have just stayed put at the house and said, "Officer, I know you said to leave if you don't live here, but I'm hammered, and in no condition to drive." 20/20 hindsight...Sigh.

MojoXN

[Moocows]

135. Unless it's committed by cops.

[slaveplanet]

57. what if the guy who had the pot

had it by mistake. What if he thought he bought oregano?

see how that works...your not going to get sympathy with that explanation

[SouthernDem2004]

62. Sympathy? Who ever asked for that? I merely stated how things work.

You may not like it but thats just the way it is.

[Tsiyu]

91. Then don't ask for sympathy for cops

You aren't a Christian are you? None of that "Do unto others" for you is there?

I know what I think you are. I don't even think you're a real cop. NO cop I know would justify this. I believe you are posing as a cop to make cops look bad. You're doing a great job, BTW.

[not systems]

129. Ding!

:think:

[Pepperbelly]

95. a NEGLIGENT mistake ... nt

[SouthernDem2004]

119. It very well may be negligent. Hard to say without the facts. /nt

[Zhade]

126. Yeah - kinda like vehicular manslaughter.

But it's okay to assualt an innocent citizen, as long as you're one of the many fascist cops.

[Pastiche423]

32. "His mental health is his own problem"?

The cops created a mental health problem when they scared the crap out of a Vietman vet that was innocent.

Have you ever been around vets (or anyone else) w/PTSD when unexpected loud noises occur?

Cripes I'm so glad I no longer live in the south.

[lies and propaganda]

38. this is the attitude that most cops have.

So blase with it. Ow, we fucked up and jarred you mentally by discharging something you even said was louder that a shotgun next to your head? Its your fault dude, for living in the house we were too dumb to figure out if it was 1a or 1b, and its doubly your fault for living next door to such bad people like stoners.

This is why I dont call the cops.

[SouthernDem2004]

39. What lie and what propaganda? That makes no sense at all.

No one said to was the gentlemens fault.

[lies and propaganda]

42. What???????? Are you nuts?

You said his mental health is his own problem, and I say that its the rootin tootin cops who bumrushed the wrong place.

You need to pick up intense pessimistic sarcasm way better.

[SouthernDem2004]

46. I still do not see any lies or propaganda.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

56. Psssst: (That's his name, not the topic)

:toast:

[SouthernDem2004]

63. Egad!

I got it confused with a message heading. :)

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

69. LOL...

You got me confused as well... I had to reread the thread looking for the context until I hit the "Doh!" moment.

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[not systems]

130. "His mental health is his own problem."

Reminds me of a great song by the Dick's covered by Mudhoney.

http://www.subpop.com/bands/mudhoney/march_to_fuzz/standard/22.html

Hate the Police

Mommy, mommy, mommy
Look at your son
You might have loved me
But now I got a gun
You better stay out of my way
I think I've had a bad day
I've had a bad day
I've had a bad day

Daddy, daddy, daddy
Proud of your son
Got himself a good job
Killing niggers and Mexicans
I'll tell you one thing, it's true
You can't find justice, it'll find you
It'll find you
It'll find you

People tell policemen
They've met their match
Down in them desert sands
Mudhoney won't catch
Mudhoney hates policemen, yes, it's true
You can't find justice, it'll find you
It'll find you
It'll find you
It'll find you

Mommy, mommy
Look at your son
You might have loved me
A gun
You better stay out of my way
I've had a bad day
I've had a bad day
Mommy, I've had a bad day
Mommy, I've had a bad day
Mommy

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. They broke a window

I believe that is called vandalism. They disturbed the peace with that noise making device and they broke into someone's home (I think they call that burglary). :think:

[SouthernDem2004]

34. Nope and nope....

They lacked intent. You must have the intent.

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. So I can come over to your house

and break a window and I have committed no crime? What if I walk in without your permission? That's legal too?

[SouthernDem2004]

49. Nope, you have intent....

You intentional committed a crime. You intentional broke my window with malicious intent.
By walking in you are trespassing at the very least. You would have to get a warrant to enter my home.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. Doesn't make any sense

The cops CAN intentionally break a window but I can't??

[SouthernDem2004]

52. Yes...

You intend to act maliciously. They were not acting maliciously.

[CTLawGuy]

58. intent =

knowledge with a substantial certainty that a result will occur

throwing in a noisemaking device will certainly freak people out and damage their hearing. and surely the cops knew that would be the result, so, when they threw it, they had intent.

and if the victim's hearing was damaged, then it WAS assault. It might be civil assault due to negligence

[SouthernDem2004]

Flashbangs do not damage hearing.

I have had numerous go off by me in training and in practice. They are loud and distracting but cause no damage.

Sorry... not assault.

[SouthernDem2004]

64. Flashbangs do not damage hearing.

I have had numerous go off by me in training and in practice. They are loud and distracting but cause no damage.

Sorry... not assault.

[Wcross]

118. Bull-scat.

They are LOUD. Any loud noise is going to damage your hearing. I would classify that as long term damage.

[not systems]

128. On planet head in the sand maybe, on Earth loud noise...

damages hearing.

Very loud noises more so.

[MADem]

67. The warrant did not apply to that guy's house, though

Bottom line: cops screwed up. If the vet has not yet contacted a lawyer, he should. He can get more than property damage; I imagine the settlement to keep it out of the courts will be quite substantial.

And the taxpayers will pay for the police incompetence. But that's the way it goes...

[SouthernDem2004]

76. They certainly screwed up. The articles states the Police repaired the

damage. He can get a lawyer but the Police are probably immune. Lol, certainly do not want to get invovled in the immunity thing here. :)

[GodHelpUsAll2]

48. Well let's see

Destroying private property. Maybe a vandalism charge, they did throw something through a window of a private residence. Maybe it could be classified as a home invasion. Were there more than 5 cops involved? Maybe you can hang gang related activity on it also. How about terroristic threats. Remember Whitney Houston's charge when she threw a bottle at someone. But hey, I guess if the police do it it's ok right? After all they are not held to the same standards as us common citizens right? So, what if I go tonight and throw a noise maker through my neighbors window. Is it ok if I say oops. wrong house?

[SouthernDem2004]

50. Its all about intent and a warrant...

[GodHelpUsAll2]

55. Well

they did intend to smash a window and they did intend to enter the house. So I guess the intent was there. But wait, oops we fucked up and went to the wrong house. We didn't intend to terrorize you sorry my bad.

So by that logic if I intend to terrorize my ex husband but mistakenly terrorize his neighbor instead then bam, no intent no crime right? This is complete and utter bullshit. Honestly, I don't know how cops sleep at night with those huge swollen heads of theirs. Not to mention the lack of conscience, knowing they have fucked up and traumatized some innocent that was just minding their own business.

[SouthernDem2004]

65. Call it what you like..

You can deny the law and facts all you wish. The Police did not intentionally act maliciously therefore it was not a crime.

Sorry, I am done. I do not read profanity filled posts. Just seems uncivil in my opinion. Just not interested in such...


Peace

[MADem]

70. They acted INCOMPETENTLY, though n/t

[SouthernDem2004]

77. Yes, they did. /nt

[GodHelpUsAll2]

108. Well yes....

Yes you do. Not only do you read posts with profanity and show intrest in them. You reply to them as well. Spare me the high and mighty. You're not fooling anyone.

[GiovanniC]

139. I'm Curious

In your expert legal opinion, if I want to scare the living shit out of one of my friends, because we like to prank on each other, and I go over to his apartment in the middle of the night and throw a SUPER-LOUD noisemaker through his open window... and it goes off, and I realize when a baby starts shrieking inside that I threw it into the wrong window, and I actually threw it in his neighbor's apartment by mistake... I wouldn't be arrested or charged with anything, right?

By the by, what if it was a 68-year-old heart patient and I gave him a heart attack and he died? I would still be without fault, right?

[GiovanniC]

141. Interesting Semi-Related Article

http://www.skyhen.org/WarOnDrugs/stun_device_burns_woman_in_drug_raid.php

Rhiannon Kephart, 18, was in serious condition in the Burns Treatment Center at Erie County Medical Center in Buffalo with second- and third-degree burns on her chest and stomach, authorities said.

Police described the events at 2470 Niagara Ave. as an unfortunate mishap. Kephart was not the target of the drug investigation, and authorities did not allege that she had been trying to prevent officers from entering the apartment.

Authorities said she apparently was in bed, or just getting up, when the device - known as a flash-bang - landed in the apartment, exploded and burned her.

A member of the Niagara Falls Police Quick Entry Team had tossed the device - intended only to stun the occupants - into the apartment while conducting the raid with federal agents under a no-knock search warrant. The explosion set off a small fire, police said.

[Moocows]

133. What laws did they break????

Are you serious?? Well, considering they didn't have a warrant for the house they raided and no probable cause to be THERE in the first place, I'd start with assault w/ a deadly weapon, then abuse under color, and probably trespassing just to get the ball rolling.

[TX-RAT]

144. What part of the word "intent" do you not understand.

A mistake was made, that we all agree on. It just wasn't done intentionally. None of your charges will hold water.

[javadu]

143. What Would Have Happened if This Was My House

First, I have no pot in my house and no reason to be afraid of the police. If the police put a flash-bang through my window, I would have rolled onto the floor and retrieved my revolver under my bed. It is something that I could do very quickly and I would probably do it automatically.

Second, after the police announced themselves as police, I don't think that I would believe them. Why would I? I have no pot and I have not broken any laws.

Third, I am afraid something bad would happen.

There has to be a better way to protect society from the evil potsmokers. Or, at least there should be a better way to get earn the approval of the wingers. I believe that 99% of cops are good guys and play an important role in most communities. However, these guys need better training and they need to stop staging Rambo type raids for the wingers to masturbate to while they read the newspaper.

[GeekMonkey]

152. They violated teh 4th amendment and should be charged

with violating the civil liberties of anyone they attack like this, even if they really are in possession of a healing plant outlawed by the pharmco and petro-chem companies.

[SouthernDem2004]

9. Hmmm...

Fewer Police? I guess you live in a nive safe neighborhood.

Against pay and benefits? Ever heard the saying. "You get what you pay for." If you lower the pay and benefits you will lose good officers and be left with the ones that can not find another job. Cut my pay and benefits and I go back to Engineering.

Drug law reform? Well, I am with you there. They should legalize marijuana and maybe MDMA (not sure on that one.)

[AX10]

15. Then you agree that marijuana is no more dangerous than the...

federal regulated alchohol? marijuana and alchohol have similar side effects

[SouthernDem2004]

22. Well sort of agree...

Marijuana is bad for you because you smoke it. Smoking is unhealthy. They also have different side effects. Pot does not rot ones liver.

Still, I think it should be legal. People should be able to make the choice for themselves just like they do with cigarettes. Herion, cocaine and the like are a whole other story.

[Pepperbelly]

96. actually no, it is not another matter.

If you can, as a cop, tell me the last time you had to sort out a shoot out between the Bud delivery man and the Miller delivery man at the corner 7/11 over who was entitled to sell their product there, I might be able to see your point.

[SouthernDem2004]

101. Huh? What post are you responding to?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Pepperbelly]

102. 22. nt

[SouthernDem2004]

104. Still makes no sense. Sorry

[Pepperbelly]

107. makes perfect sense but just not to you. Sorry. nt

[SouthernDem2004]

111. Guess not, Can anyone else explain it??? :)

[Pepperbelly]

112. legalization of hard drugs vs. pot ... nt

[The Doctor.]

12. "The police used to watch over the people...

now they're watching the people."

[Straight Shooter]

7. Can anyone say "tinnitis"?

Permanent ringing or buzzing in the air due to excessive volume. Can it happen with one occurrence? I can't say, but it might tip the scales in that direction.

Tasers. Noise devices. What's next? Dogs infected with rabies let loose to chase suspects?

[TeeYiYi]

19. You know what comes next . . .

They'll release their dogs or killer bees. Or dogs with killer bees in their mouths so when they bark, they shoot killer bees at you.

TYY

[patdem]

26. I have not had a belly laugh in weeks..thanks for that...

dogs or killer bees or dogs with killer bees in their mouths so when they bark they shoot killer bees....lol...sounds like a taser to me....so funny....you must get a stand up routine!

edit for grammar (can't remember the rule)also to add bold

[lies and propaganda]

40. this totally lightened how pissy

i was over this thread, thanks a lot!

[Zhade]

127. "In America, first you get the sugar. Then you get the power.

Then you get the women."

[Nikia]

17. Why can't they just try knocking on the door?

Most people dealing only marijuana in small amounts are not violent or prone to violence when confronted by police.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. If they were only looking for 4 ounces of pot

I know lots of folks who could have hooked them up for an amount that small. No need to break windows and traumatize folks. :)

[killbotfactory]

18. Tax dollars at work

what a fucking waste of money.

[H2O Man]

25. More violent crime associated with pot. n/t

[Rex]

36. I've had one of these things go off next to me

in the Army. I don't know if I suffered a concussion or not but I was dizzy and disoriented for at least 20 minutes.

[sweetheart]

43. I wonder what time it was

British police have much better luck with the "dawn raid" as the
suspects are usually asleep and groggy. It sounds like they planned
the raid to be during a time when they could get some fight-back so
they could rationalize using their toys.

It was idaho after all... land of the gun nut.

[dogday]

45. Ooops! Never Mind! Wrong House

our police force is getting out of hand. They are getting all this homeland security training and they arrest and treat people like they are all terrorist now. Something needs to be done....

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

59. Damn shame the guy didn't have 1/4" tempered glass... the flash

bomb would have most likely bounced right back to where it came from if they aimed for the center of the window.

[SouthernDem2004]

66. We shatter the window before tossing in the grenade. /nt

[MADem]

71. Be nice if "checking the address" was on that checklist!!! n/t

[SouthernDem2004]

74. No doubt. You would think they would have.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

72. Unexpected 1/4" temperd would be a surprise and the efforts

to break the window would arouse most folks.

You want to shatter tempered? Don't use brute force, tap an icepick with a hammer at the edge or corner of the glass (wearing safety glasses... It will explode).

[Eric J in MN]

81. Why not arrest the person when he leaves during the day

instead of raiding his home at night?

[SouthernDem2004]

82. Well...

The plan is usually to enter when they are sleeping for obvious reasons.

The problem with leaving is that they could be armed at that point. You increase the danger of a violent confrontation. Also, most people leave during the day. It is hard to conceal a team in the daylight. Surprise is key.

[Eric J in MN]

83. Just because someone sells drugs, it doesn't follow that

he's going to respond to being placed under arrest by reaching for a gun.

[SouthernDem2004]

84. There is part of the story we are not getting...

We do not do no-knock warrants on a regular basis. A judge will not grant a no-knock without cause. They had to have felt this guy they were going after was a danger for some reason.

[Eric J in MN]

86. Does the suspect have to be convicted of violence previously? nt

nt

[SouthernDem2004]

87. Negative, it can be just that he is known to own guns. /nt

[Eric J in MN]

93. Lots of people own guns. That doesn't seem like

much of a threshold for raiding a man's home instead if giving him a chance to turn himself in or arresting him outside.

[SouthernDem2004]

105. Sorry, that would not work...

1) He is not going to bring contraband with him to turn himself in.
2) If he knows he has a warant he may run.
3) If he knows he has a warant he may arm himself.

In a perfect world with good people your idea would work.

[Tsiyu]

121. You're a cop and you can't spell warrant?

something stinks here.....

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

136. My guess too

[Name removed]

137. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TX-RAT]

140. A miss spelled word, means your a fraud?

[Name removed]

145. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TX-RAT]

146. And your proof for this deletable insult is what?

[not systems]

147. No proof. Just observation of Internet personalities over time...

go ahead and alert I'm sure that the truth will
come out eventually.

If a person expects to be treated as a celebrity then the
should expect the criticism and scrutiny that a celebrity gets.

[TX-RAT]

149. observation of Internet personalities???

OK! What weight that brings to your case i don't know, but if it makes you Happy.

[not systems]

151. It brings none...

but if it looks like a fish and smells like a fish,
I'll call it a fish.

[Pepperbelly]

97. so it's better to terrorize innocent citizens over a QP?

Geez.


What would have been your response if the INNOCENT man had attempted to defend his home against intruders and he had killed one of the cops and they had killed him?

[SouthernDem2004]

110. That has been asked and answered.

[Pepperbelly]

114. what answer?

Tough luck but the cops are immune?

That is no answer to it morally.

[SouthernDem2004]

117. Who said that?

[Swamp Rat]

85. Evil bastards

And if you think this was appropriate, you might be an evil bastard too.

Pox on their houses forever! :grr:

[kodi]

98. lazy cops trying to make an easy bust, instead of hunting real criminals

.

[Warren DeMontague]

109. Your fucking tax dollars at work.. Again!

Woo-Hoo. Thank God for the drug war!

[not systems]

138. kick n/t

[MojoXN]

148. Jesus, they're conducting SWAT style raids...

Over 1/4 lb of pot? Jesus, I'm glad I don't live in Nampa, Idaho. The cops there must have WAY too much time on their hands. I mean, provided it's just your average quality marijuana that's worth what, $500 or so? Not exactly what I would call "big time", but then again, I don't live in Nampa, Idaho.

MojoXN