A defeat in the Iraq war has to be seen as a defeat for the neocons.

[The Crazy Canadian]

They were the ones that planned all this and things in Iraq have turned out to be a total disaster. Not only did this war violate international law, but it was based on a pack of lies.

If after this war these guys are still hanging around in the Pentagon and formulating US foreign policy, then that truly will be a defeat for the progressive community around the world.

Their ideology needs to be crushed and to do that we need to link the failure in Iraq to the failure of their ideas.

Anybody who still thinks that the Iraq adventure can turn out to be a "success" if given more time, is only giving the neocons more time to plan more wars.

[jimshoes]

1. You are right

these neo con criminals need to be imprisoned for their, to borrow a word from FDR, dastardly plan to remake the middle east in their image. It is a failure and only a full investigation and subsequent trial will uncover the scope of their criminality. It can't come soon enough.

[MichiDem]

2. There is no defeat

we (*) already declared victory.

Weren't you paying attention?

[The Crazy Canadian]

4. Oh yeah, i forgot about that Mission Accomplished speech he gave...

on the aircraft carrier when we was all dressed up in that pilot uniform. You can bet that even if things get worse in Iraq the Pentagon will get out their psy ops teams to turn a failure into success. It's all about perception.

[calimary]

7. Welcome to DU!

Cheers! Glad you're here! Now, roll up your sleeves...

[Coexist]

3. I would prefer a pullout to a defeat

those are Americans fighting over there.

[Jacobin]

6. Unfortunately, we have already lost

Our soldiers live behind 20 foot concrete blast walls and when they venture out they are shot at and blown up.

This thing was lost months ago.

And yes, "those are Americans over there" who invaded a country without a good reason and who don't belong there and are not wanted there by the Iraqis and who need to come home.

[applegrove]

5. Their idea for perpetual, unilateral, cheap war has been completely

obliterated. On all three counts it has proven to be a disaster.

Just like the 1980s policy of "ME not ready for democracy..we must work through Islamist elites & strongmen".

[mopaul]

8. war is their only fucking agenda

it's all they have to sell, and millions are buying it like the latest model car.