the Democrats' problem is that they're REALLY bad at politics . . .

[OneBlueSky]

if they were smart, they'd be doing what Hagel is doing, i.e. getting ahead of public opinion . . . then, when said opinion swings firmly and convincingly against the war (coming soon), they'd be seen as "leaders" . . . instead, Hagel will be the one the country looks to for leadership . . . should give him a nice platform to run on, don'tcha think? . . .

damn shame the Democrats are so lousy at politics . . .

[kster]

1. Hagel is

going to prison.

[Selatius]

2. People who hold solid to principles find it hard to compromise them away

A true "politician" is willing to put everything on the poker table, willing to risk any and all in order to win.

A politician who is willing to sacrifice anything to win could, conceivably, decide to sacrifice the issue of gay rights, stem cell research, abortion rights, etc. and play his hand on economic populism, environmental protection, etc. to try to win votes.

[OneBlueSky]

3. I'm not supporting Hagel . . . just commenting on what the Dems . . .

SHOULD be doing . . . not only for political reasons, but because it's right . . . and doing what's right generally turns out to be a good political move in the long run . . .

[aquart]

4. And you, of course, know exactly what's right.

Geesh.

[OneBlueSky]

8. I know that opposing an illegal and immoral war is right . . .

don't you? . . .

geesh . . .

[KharmaTrain]

5. Frist/Hagel Inside/Outside

This is making more sense the more I've been reading this evening.

Hagel isn't jumping the shark...he is the shark. He's planted to cover the Repugnican's ass cause the party powers behind the curtain can always pull him out and he can say "see, I spoke out waaaaay back when". In the meantime he votes the straight right wing ticket so he can play both sides of the street. This man does it very well.

All the attention's been on Frist as he represents the fundies, but IMHO he's a diversion by Rove and the other GOOP elite for a candidate we still don't know. They've floated names just to create diversions...Condi, Chenney and now Frist. This keeps the base looking elsewhere while the top elite do their selecting.

Hagel's been playing it very smart...he's a McCain without the essentricities and is younger. He's also visible enough on the TV chat shows to be seen and has cultivated a moderate/nice guy rep that makes him popular with the corporate media. He's got everything set up nicely. What even more intersting is how he can speak out and you don't hear a peep from the hate radio/talking heads. He's given a free pass...to play "maverick".

[Disturbed]

7. If Dems call for a phased withdrawl from Iraq as

Ted Kennedy has done they will be blamed for the possible chaos that may insue. This is the Bush Regime War. Dems shouldn't be the ones that fix it for them. Also, Dems would be cast as weak on defense if they push that. Dems should be pushing for the Impeachment of GW Bush, Cheney and Rumsfailed for High Crimes. Dems should be pushing for Election Reform, Medicaide and Drug Prescription Reform and other Natl. Issues.

[KharmaTrain]

12. Let's Win Some House Seats First

Framing this as "Bush's War" may feel good and have some political advantage, but he's not the only one...ALL the emablers of this invasion have to be noted and when the time comes, made accountable. The first step is to take the growing unease about this "war" and turn it into Repugnican losses in the House so the Democrats can take the House and Senate. This has to become a major focus and priority...since without it, we can't enact any of the other things on your wish list.

Right now, this regime is choking on this invasion...let 'em choke further...let's not give them a way to either duck out or place blame. Using "Bush's war" allows bastards like Hagel and others who supported this travesty to grow in power and influence. This is a Repugnican War...and if people are fed up, all they need do is remove the (R)s from their local district.

I like Walter Jones or a similar Repugnican playing rear guard. Let these folks come up with a time table (let it be a Repugnican idea) and then it gives Democrats the chance to do what the Repugnicans have done so effectively...both ends against the middle.

Chaos is coming...we can allow Repugnicans to create diversions and skip the blame...or we can continue to show how Repugnican control is disasterous for this country.

[izzie]

6. Please look at how long we held congress.

---

[OneBlueSky]

9. that was then . . . this is now . . .

and please note that now we don't hold Congress, or the presidency, or the judiciary, or the media . . .

[NewJeffCT]

10. Hagel is a flip-flopper then

If he has modified his position...

[blogslut]

11. Dems aren't bad at politics...

...they're bad at cheating, dirty tricks and lying.

[Hugin]

13. Exactly.

If we're to adopt the "ends justify the means" meme... We're no
better than the RWers.

To them, running our country is a big winner takes all sporting
event. They have the power, but, have no earthly idea what to do
with it except to enrich themselves at the expense of those who
can least afford it.

Didn't Hagel own some voting machines when he was first elected?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. The Democrats problem is that they play politics with people's lives.

Instead of opposing the war and occupation they either support it, ignore it, or pussyfoot around it.

They are terrified of being labeled as "weak on defense", "unpatriotic", "left wing", or, "willing to cut and run". They "Support the Troops", and quail at the thought of defunding the occupation. They voted for the war so now defend it with facile statements of "being deceived" or, saying the war was "mismanaged". Kind of like saying they were tricked into assisting at a lynching that went bad and blaming a faulty rope.

Not all, of course, Kucinich, McKinney, Conyers, Boxer, Durbin, and some others do speak out, but are marginalized by the fundraisers, opportunists, "realists", "pragmatists", and "moderates" who label them "extremists", "out of the mainstream", etc.

The Democrats aren't "bad at politics". Most of them are just typical politicians following the path of least resistance to the money and the votes with their eyes on the polls and their pathetic asses attached firmly to their precious seats.