Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Christian Wire: "An aware woman was killed!" (re: Schiavo)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:42 PM
Original message
Christian Wire: "An aware woman was killed!" (re: Schiavo)
Edited on Sun Jun-19-05 10:09 PM by Bluebear
http://www.earnedmedia.org/tf0619.htm

CLEARWATER, Fl., June 19 /Christian Wire Service/ -- Dr. William Hammesfahr,


nominated for a Nobel Prize for his work in Medicine, has been recognized by agents for Medicare, the federal government, and others for new approaches to helping the brain injured.

Dr. Hammesfahr has been identified in helping patients with chronic brain injuries from many causes actually leave long term disability, and return to work. Dr. Hammesfahr, was identified by Judge Susan Kirkland, for the State of Florida Department of Health, in her judicial ruling in which, for the State of Florida, Department of Health, found that he was "the first physician to restore deficits caused by stroke."

Dr. Hammesfahr has released the following statement in response to the autopsy report on Terri Schindler Schiavo:

We have seen a lot on the autopsy of Terri Schindler Schiavo in recent days, that I feel needs to be addressed. To ignore these comments will allow future "Terri Schiavo's" to die needlessly after the wishes of clinicians and family are ignored.

Considering that there were so many physicians and therapists who were willing to step forward to treat Terri Schiavo, from university based practitioners to those in private practice, it clearly shows that the mainstream medical community across the board, those involved in treating patients, knew that they could help Terri.

The record must be set straight. As we noted in the press, there was no heart attack, or evident reason for this to have happened (and certainly not of Terri's making).

Unlike the constant drumbeat from the husband, his attorneys, and his doctors, the brain tissue was not dissolved, with a head of just spinal fluid. In fact, large areas were "relatively preserved."

The purpose of the therapies offered by so many, from major universities, brain injury centers, and from private practice physicians, is to improve and restore quality of life, and function, which the mainstream medical community clearly tried to get to her.

I have had a chance to look at Dr. Nelson's analysis of the brain tissue, and essentially, as a clinician, these are my thoughts.

The autopsy results confirmed my opinion and Dr. Maxfield's opinions, that the frontal areas of the brains, the areas that deal with awareness and cognition were relatively intact. To use Dr. Nelson's words, "relatively preserved." In fact, the relay areas from the frontal and front temporal regions of the brain, to the spinal cord and the brain stem, by way of the basal ganglia, were preserved, thus the evident responses which she was able to express to her family and to the clinicians seeing her or viewing her videotape. The Spect scan confirmed these areas were functional and not scar tissue, and that was apparently also confirmed on Dr. Nelson's review of the slides. Dr. Maxfield's estimates of retained brain weight were apparently accurate, although there may have been some loss of brain weight due to the last two weeks of dehydration.

Dr. Maxfield and myself both emphasized that she was a woman trapped in her body, similar to a child with cerebral palsy, and that was born out by the autopsy, showing greater injury in the motor and visual centers of the brain. Obviously, the pathologists comments that she could not see were not borne out by reality, and thus his assessment must represent sampling error. The videotapes clearly showed her seeing, and even Dr. Cranfoed, for the husband, commented to her that, when she could see the balloon, she could follow it with her eyes as per his request.

That she could not swallow was obviously not borne out by the reality that she was swallowing her saliva, about 1.5 liters per day of liquid, and the clinical swallowing tests done by Dr. Young and Dr. Carpenter. Thus, there appears to be some limitations to the clinical accuracy of an autopsy in evaluating function.

With respect to the issue of trauma, that certainly does not appear to be answered adequately. Some of the types of trauma that are suspected were not adequately evaluated in this assessment. Interestingly, both myself and at least one neurologist for the husband testified to the presence of neck injuries. The issue of a forensic evaluation for trauma, is highly specialized. Hence the wish of the family to have observers which was refused by the examiner.

Ultimately, based on the clinical evidence and the autopsy results, an aware woman was killed.


Dr. W. Hammesfahr
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yet another "doctor" who didn't read the damn autopsy report.
How long is it going to take for these idiots to grow a fucking brain stem?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. This guy is a total quack
who has lost more than one malpractice case for telling people he can cure stroke and brain injury.

Always consider the source.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. No, he just doesn't care about it...
... he's very close to quackery in his practice, and people at other medical institutions have been very skeptical of both his methodology and his clinical research. Most don't want to comment. No one else has bothered to try to duplicate his research and virtually none of it has been peer-reviewed by an acknowledged medical journal.

He is the sole doctor--picked by the family in the court proceedings--that said Terri Schiavo could be helped.

He's been nailed once for his billing practices, and the "Nobel prize nomination" was made by some idiot state legislator in Florida. Only the Nobel nominating committee can actually nominate someone for the prize in medicine, but he's continued to use that "nomination" in his self-promotional releases.

I expect that, a few years down the road, we're going to hear that the good doctor is up on charges.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
29. Stretch the truth as far as it will go.
This guy is just using Schiavo as a publicity stunt. Shameful, truly shameful. :mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
personman Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm surprised the republicans
aren't saying she was lazy and faking it and should go get a job. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BamaLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. ROFLMAO!!!
That is too hilarious!!!!!!!! :rofl:

THANK YOU FOR THAT ONE!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. Your check from Governor Bu$h will arrive via Fed Ex.
please deposit in the "Abbie Normal" account.

eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. When. will. this. END!?!?
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. Just sent them an email.
OH, PLEASE. Dr. Hammesfahr was NOT nominated for a Nobel Prize by ANYONE who actually has the right to submit a proposal for a Nobel Prize. A letter from your congressman does NOT count. In the interests of accuracy, fairness and balance, you should add a disclaimer to your site immediately.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200503220009
Dubious doctor touted as Nobel Prize nominee by Hannity, Scarborough

Fox News host Sean Hannity and MSNBC host Joe Scarborough both promoted Dr. William Hammesfahr's false claim that he is a Nobel Prize nominee.

Hammesfahr* testified during an October 2002 court hearing on the Schiavo case that his claim to be a Nobel nominee is based on a letter written by Rep. Mike Bilirakis (R-FL) recommending him for the prize. But Bilirakis is not qualified to make a valid nomination under the Nobel rules.

According to the process posted on the Nobel Prize website, the Nobel Assembly sends out invitations to approximately 3,000 people who are allowed to propose candidates. The 3,000 are "mainly members of the Nobel Assembly, previous prize winners, and a selection of professors at universities around the world." In providing detailed information about those who can submit nominations, the site states:

Right to submit proposals for the award of the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine, based on the principle of competence and universality, shall by statute be enjoyed by:

Members of the Nobel Assembly at Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm;
Swedish and foreign members of the medical class of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences;
Nobel Laureates in Physiology or Medicine;
Members of the Nobel Committee not qualified under paragraph 1 above;
Holders of established posts as professors at the faculties of medicine in Sweden and holders of similar posts at the faculties of medicine or similar institutions in Denmark, Finland, Iceland and Norway;
Holders of similar posts at no fewer than six other faculties of medicine selected by the Assembly, with a view to ensuring the appropriate distribution of the task among various countries and their seats of learning; and
Practitioners of natural sciences whom the Assembly may otherwise see fit to approach.


I wonder what kind of vile reply I will receive from these Christians?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. here ya go...google is nirvana
http://mediamatters.org/items/200503220009
Dubious doctor touted as Nobel Prize nominee by ...
http://www.hnionline.com/national_enquirer_1998.htm
NATIONAL ENQUIRER 1998 featuring Dr. William Hammesfahr
http://www.healthwatcher.net/Quackerywatch/Questionable-doctors/
Questionable doctors
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/healthlawprof_blog/2005/03/dr_frists_diagn.html
HealthLawProf Blog: Dr. Frist's Diagnosis
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. These people are so very mentally ill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. Frist has just made another statement on the case
Apparently despite having the feeding tube removed and having the autopsy completed, she is still completely aware of her surroundings, and with the right therapy could still make a full recovery.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
12. Still trottin' out that "Nobel Prize Nominee" BS 'eh?
Well, I was just nominated Goddess of the Andromeda Galaxy.

Suck that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. LOL touche! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Pat Robertson nominated him
God told Pat that He would remind the Nobel folks. I guess He forgot to relay Pat's message. God's a busy Deity after all.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
15. So they're still claiming he's a Nobel nominee, even though
that's been proven false:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200503220009

and here's more about him being "nominated" and his report:
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh032205.shtml
Yes, Hammesfahr was “nominated” for the Nobel Prize by his Republican congressman, Peter Bilirakis, back in 1999! And uh-oh! In 2003, William Levesque of the St. Peterburg Times described more of Hammesfahr’s brilliance:

LEVESQUE (10/25/03): In a 2002 order by Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge George Greer ruling that Mrs. Schiavo could not recover, Greer labeled Hammesfahr a "self-promoter."
The judge noted that Hammesfahr testified that he had treated patients worse off than Mrs. Schiavo yet "offered no names, no case studies, no videos and no test results to support his claim."

"By the court's count, (Hammesfahr) gave 105 commands to Terri Schiavo and, at his direction, Mrs. Schindler gave an additional six commands," Greer wrote. "He asked her 61 questions and Mrs. Schindler asked her an additional 11 questions. The court saw few actions that could be considered responsive to either those commands or those questions."

As for swallowing, according to Dr. Jay Wolfson Professor of Public Health and Medicine, University of South Florida and Legal Guardian of Terri Schiavo (2003):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57781-2005Mar22.html
she cannot swallow anything but her own saliva, and would aspirate (suck into her lungs) any food or water that might be given to her. there are many unsubstantiated facts.

Hammesfahr's 15 minutes are over. He should get off the stage.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. So that's how he does it
He just makes claims without any support. Huh. I guess by that standered even I could be a doctor. My grandmother always wanted me to be one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
16. They also think jesus is coming back.
Shows THEIR level of AWARENESS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
delete_bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Jesus has been coming for 2000 years,
which in and of itself is pretty amazing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. Jesus is coming back
But those idiots aren't going to like what He has to say...

"When he finally arrives, blazing in beauty and all his angels with him, the Son of Man will take his place on his glorious throne. Then all the nations will be arranged before him and he will sort the people out, much as a shepherd sorts out sheep and goats, putting sheep to his right and goats to his left.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, "Enter, you who are blessed by my Father! Take what's coming to you in this kingdom. It's been ready for you since the world's foundation. And here's why:

I was hungry and you fed me,

I was thirsty and you gave me a drink,

I was homeless and you gave me a room,

I was shivering and you gave me clothes,

I was sick and you stopped to visit,

I was in prison and you came to me.'



"Then those "sheep' are going to say, "Master, what are you talking about? When did we ever see you hungry and feed you, thirsty and give you a drink? And when did we ever see you sick or in prison and come to you?' Then the King will say, "I'm telling the solemn truth: Whenever you did one of these things to someone overlooked or ignored, that was me--you did it to me.'

"Then he will turn to the "goats,' the ones on his left, and say, "Get out, worthless goats! You're good for nothing but the fires of hell. And why? Because--

I was hungry and you gave me no meal,

I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,

I was homeless and you gave me no bed,

I was shivering and you gave me no clothes,

Sick and in prison, and you never visited.'



"Then those "goats' are going to say, "Master, what are you talking about? When did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or homeless or shivering or sick or in prison and didn't help?'

"He will answer them, "I'm telling the solemn truth: Whenever you failed to do one of these things to someone who was being overlooked or ignored, that was me--you failed to do it to me.'

"Then those "goats' will be herded to their eternal doom, but the "sheep' to their eternal reward."


Hope the Freeps have a lot of flame-retardant clothing. They're gonna need it......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Jesus already came back! And he raptured all of the True Christians:
BOTH of them!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
17. This is the guy that Hannity was trying to sell!
These people must think Americans are putzes. OK, maybe some of them are......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. Everyone missed the point of all this
The Repugs were mad because they were going to run her in "06 and are just mad that they lost the brain-dead vote.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
personman Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Nah, they still have Jeb. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
21. Will they not let this die??
Ugh. :mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. Swallowing saliva and swallowing food/water are different activities
Edited on Sun Jun-19-05 11:44 PM by daleo
I recall reading that different areas of the brain control the two functions, with food swallowing being a higher order function and swallowing saliva being a lower order reflex. This was hashed out in the earlier Shiavo threads (before her death).

This seems logically inescapable, as people in comas can't eat, yet they don't drown in their own spit. Same for healthy people as they sleep. If one had water poured in his mouth as he slept, he would either wake up or choke, but saliva is another matter. We obviously sleep through swallowing lots of that (although we may also drool a bit).

One early indication of dementia is when people begin to have problems swallowing solid food. Again though, they don't drown in their saliva, even when dementia is very advanced.

The swallowing objection is clearly a canard.

On Edit: Here is a snip from some of the trial documents and a link:

"Dr. Maxfield also felt that '02 CT Scan showed improvement in the quality of the remaining brain matter and that one reason Terry Schiavo was not in a persistent vegetative state was that she could swallow her own saliva and breathe on her own.

These views were not supported by any of the other doctors and Drs. Greer, Bambakidis and Cranford strongly disagreed with his '02 CT Scan opinion. Dr. Cranford further testified that saliva handling is from the brain stem, a reflex.

Viewing all of the evidence as a whole, and acknowledging that medicine is not a precise science, the court finds that the credible evidence overwhelmingly supports the view that Terry Schiavo remains in a persistent vegetative state. Even Dr. Maxfield acknowledges that vegetative patients can track on occasion and that smiling can be a reflex."

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder11-02.txt

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. So the people trying to give her water should be charged w/assault
Or attempted murder!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. I read it might well kill someone in that state.
Either by choking, or aspirating food which can result in pneumonia. Either of those charges might well have been valid, had they succeeded in doing so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
24. Lying isn't Christian
knock it off, asshole.

exuse me... DR. Asshole
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
26. Quack, quack, quack.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
30. Bluebear
Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
copyrighted news source.


Thank you.


DU Moderator
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
31. Every time I see this asshat's name....
I think of this movie...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC