"Lesiban's Death was a Hate Crime"

[Modem Butterfly]

Gay and lesbian organizations are calling the recent stabbing death of a lesbian woman a hate crime.
The groups held a candlelight vigil Friday evening at Jordan Park for the slain woman, Norma Hernandez Espinoza, who was killed June 10 outside a West Valley City apartment. About 70 people attended.
"We must combat the voices of those who hate," said Gena Edvalson, the gender justice coordinator at Utah Progressive Network, in a news release, "and we must stand together as friends and neighbors to show that we, as a community of love and understanding, are a greater force than hate and violence."

http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2809704

The details of this crime are pretty horrifying:

Espinoza - who was having a romantic relationship with Brown's wife - had joined in a heated argument Brown and his wife were having about their three children when Brown grabbed a kitchen knife and chased the victim into the parking lot.
Outside, Brown stabbed Espinoza three times, then jumped up and down on her chest and kicked her in the head, according to witnesses.

[Lucky Luciano]

1. As tragic as this is,

This is not a hate crime. Isn't it clearly a crime of passion?????? If Espinoza were a guy, then Brown would have done the same thing I suspect.

[GiovanniC]

2. My Guess -- A Dude That Unbalanced Would Have Done That To Anyone

His wife was carrying on an affair with... I don't know how much the lesbianism played into it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. Well, there is the aspect of the guy's sense of shame

at being less of a man than his wife's girlfriend.

Not making light of it, but I do agree it was more a crime of passion than a hate crime. If he had gone and done the same thing six hours after the argument, then there would be cause to call it a hate crime.

[theboss]

3. I've always been confused by hate crimes

How is this any different than if he killed a man who was banging his wife?

[Modem Butterfly]

4. If he killed her BECAUSE of who she was, it's a hate crime

Would he have killed her if she hadn't been a lesbian? Who knows? A case can be made that this was "just" murder. But the particular viciousness of the crime, along with the "coup de grace" at the end certainly makes me wonder if there wasn't an undercurrent of homophobia here.

[Lucky Luciano]

8. If he killed her because she is a lesbian, then it is a hate crime,

but I think he killed her because she was banging his wife. Furthermore, even if he *hates* gays and lesbians, it is still not a hate crime. It was the fact that she was fucking his wife that made him violent and kill - not the fact that she was a lesbian.

Of course, that is all we can glean from the snip...If there is more to this, then I could be wrong, but based on what I read I cannot see a hate crime in any sense.

[ET Awful]

5. How long until Fred Phelps shows up?

Half the Phelps family is made up of attorneys, I wouldn't be surprised if they offer to defend the guy.

[lenidog]

7. I don't see this as a hate crime. I think this guy would have done this to

a man just as easily as this woman. It sounds like a crime of passion.

[madeline_con]

13. Good point

I'm in a dilemna, though, because both sides have some excellent poits. He probably would have done it to a man who was involved with his wife, AND the sense of shame might have exacerbated the situation somewhat in his mind.

There are considerations. Did he kill her because she was female and maybe smaller than him (?), IOW would he attack a guy his own size, to coin an old cliche.

Was her sexual orientation merely incidental, and he was torqued out of shape over losing his wife to whomever the person might be?

To assume it's a hate crime is a little premature. It seems more appropriate to wait for the police interview, to see what's going on in this guy's head.

:tinfoilhat:

[NMMNG]

9. I have to say I don't see this as a hate crime

Brown was cheesed that someone was screwing his wife and interfering in a domestic argument between him and his wife. No doubt he would have done the same to a guy. It was a vicious murder, but not a hate crime.

[madeline_con]

10. ...according to witnesses. (??!!)

No one tried to get this loonie off her?! Geez!

[NMMNG]

12. Classic bystander effect

Nobody wants to get involved: everybody assumes "somebody else" will do something. Sad but true.

[JackRiddler]

11. All unprovoked murders have an element of hate

This one clearly more than most.

Defining a separate legal category of hate crime is based on motive rather than act, and remains questionable. How the hell do you determine, and why is it worse than any other deliberate murder? Is it more okay to kill poor rather than rich people when you rob a bank? (In our system, it actually is more acceptable to kill the poor, and this acceptance encourages others to feel the same way; although it's usually not a hate crime.)

However, I do have a prejudice about men killing women under any circumstances and so do lots of other people. This guy is likely to get worse treatment from a court than if he had killed a man.