David Kay & James Woolsey say fixed doesn't mean fixed.DSM

[spanone]

They are saying the the British use of 'fixed' is different from ours. I think this is bullshit, but are they're any British friends out there that can shed some real light on this?
This is currently on Hardball

[stepnw1f]

1. They Are Full of It

Playing word games like a bunch of ninnies. My God they are digging a deep grave for their political party.

On second thought: KEEP DIGGING ASSHOLES!

[rzemanfl]

2. A Brit with a degree in English Lit posted a reply to me that it was

bullshit a few days ago. I will try to find the thread.

[spanone]

9. Thanks!

:hippie:

[rzemanfl]

21. Here's the thread. Exchange starts at #34.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1848537

[Applan]

34. And here's Michael Smith saying it

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2005/06/14/DI2005061401261.html

Michael Smith: There are number of people asking about fixed and its meaning. This is a real joke. I do not know anyone in the UK who took it to mean anything other than fixed as in fixed a race, fixed an election, fixed the intelligence. If you fix something, you make it the way you want it. The intelligence was fixed and as for the reports that said this was one British official. Pleeeaaassee! This was the head of MI6. How much authority do you want the man to have? He has just been to Washington, he has just talked to George Tenet. He said the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. That translates in clearer terms as the intelligence was being cooked to match what the administration wanted it to say to justify invading Iraq. Fixed means the same here as it does there. More leaks? I do hope so and the more Blair and Bush lie to try to get themselves off the hook the more likely it is that we will get more leaks.

And as a Brit, I can myself assure you that fixed means exactly what Smith says it means. So we can put this RW bullshit to bed.

[mzmolly]

36. Thank you.

:hi:

[BattyDem]

3. If that's true ...

why didn't Tony Blair say that during the press conference last week? :eyes:

[eleny]

4. Their only problem is - they're full of crap

[ananda]

7. They're there to..

.. spin DSM into cotton candy.

Ugghh. Is no one going to come on to rebut these two neocon assholes?

Sue

[wryter2000]

5. Maybe they'd like to explain

"The case is thin"
"Military intervention was seen as inevitable."

These creeps are really nervous. Good sign.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

6. Michael Smith himself...

Said that fixed means fixed. Setup. Manufactured. The bad shit.

These two guys are spinning.

[zoeb]

8. What the hell do they know...

CIA...they had their heads up their asses and that's why we got hit on 911. F*$k'em all!!!

[satya]

10. James Woolsey of PNAC fame?

Signer of the letter to Clinton urging him to take out Saddam?

In answer to your question, several posts here (and in other places) have clarified that point--"fixed" means the same in both British and USAmerican English--manipulated, "cooked the books".

It's just another diversion from the issue.

[jaysunb]

11. Hey, Liars Lie

spinners spin and the David Gregorys of the world give assistance as needed.

[warrior1]

13. A friend of mine

said they same thing, Fixed means fixed.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. But I thought the reporter who broke the story was British.

Doesn't HE know what the British mean by "fixed"? Cheez, these asshats are getting desperate. Clinton got crapped all over for parsing the meaning of "is," but it's OK for neocon apologists to parse the bezeesus out of "fixed." And incorrectly, too. And even though the British reporter, who ought to know, hasn't ever suggested the word means what Kay and Woolsey say it means...

:puke:

[Sparkly]

14. I believe Woolsey also misstated the UN resolution.

He essentially claimed it gave us authority to invade, so it was okay. In fact, it required a unanimous vote of the security council and France and Germany stated they weren't going along with it.

[Cocoa]

15. a diversion only morons would fall for

first of all, the importance of the memo doesn't depend on that one word in any way whatsoever.

Second of all, what do they say "fixed" means in the UK?

[oasis]

16. Talk about fixed, PNACer Woolsey was on the tube saying "Syria should

be next" even before the invasion of Iraq.

[merbex]

17. It is telling that they didn't have the other 2 on at the same time as

Smith

He could have clarified any questions they had

But we can't have that now could we? Too easy

[xray s]

18. Its on Hardball

In other words Matthews is picking nuggets out of Rove's ass again.

[mzmolly]

19. How f-ing ridiculous. Like Michael Smith doesn't know what "fixed" means

in the context of this memo.

You can't "fix" policy around a decision any other way ...

[Straight Shooter]

20. What does "Fuck Saddam, we're taking him out" mean?

As spoken by bush, March 2002, in the presence of Kindasleazy Rice and three Senators.

Does it mean bush was going to take him out on a date? :eyes:

[spanone]

25. This asshole Woolsey just basically said the end justifies any means.

You know, Saddam was a bad guy.

[Donailin]

41. .

:rofl:

[Atman]

22. Kay and Woolsey are getting too much unchallenged airtime

Michael Smith got a lot of time, and David Gregory asked some tough questions. Smith answered them admirably. Woolsey and Kay are getting to say just about anything they want, and Gregory isn't asking them about PNAC. Granted, he IS being absolutely brutal compared to Tweety, but that is like saying a brick is hard compared to a marshmallow...well, duh! I'm still not overly impressed. Hardball clearly set this up to allow "last word" status, and LOTS OF IT, to the debunkers.

"A tempest in a teapot." - Kay

"What is important in Iraq is what is happening today." - Kay

What is it about republicans? They always think that if the lie was more than 10 minutes old, it doesn't count!

[halobeam]

46. I watched this with my "moderate" as he says Repub brother...

he said exactly the same thing. What's more important in Iraq is what's happening today. Ugh. I said, yes, but I think we are capable of handling two issues at once. What to do now that we are there, and ALSO how we were lied to by this administration that got us into Iraq. Don't you think so, brother?

It's creepy we rested in the same womb. Who is this alien I still love?:shrug:

[WestHoustonDem]

23. Did you hear Kay say "You can't go to war in a matter of a few weeks"?

Isn't that what we did in Afghanistan?

[Eloriel]

24. That was the main talking point that surfaced on this right away

I think by Scott McClellan, tho am not 100% sure of that.

[DemBones DemBones]

26. HELLO -- the story was broken by a BRITISH reporter in a BRITISH

paper. I'm guessing they know BRITISH usage pretty well.

(I'm not HELLO-ing at you, but at the stupidity of this argument from Woolsey.)

[spanone]

27. The absurdity is like a Monty Python film. It's hard to fathom.

[kodi]

43. 'When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean...."

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'


we are way thru the looking glass now.

[rzemanfl]

28. DU'er CJCRANE of England, who has an honors degree in

English Lit says "fixed around" means the same thing in British and American English.

[spanone]

30. Thank You...and thank you CJCRANE

[indie_voter]

29. "a real joke" according to Michael Smith

Fairfax, Va.: Do you expect we will see more leaks which further corroborate the assertion that Bush lied to justify the neoconservatives' aggressive stance against Iraq? Also, what are your thoughts on the semantics argument of the Iraq war supporters (i.e., in the U.K., "fixed around" doesn't mean what you think it means...)?

Michael Smith: There are number of people asking about fixed and its meaning. This is a real joke. I do not know anyone in the UK who took it to mean anything other than fixed as in fixed a race, fixed an election, fixed the intelligence. If you fix something, you make it the way you want it. The intelligence was fixed and as for the reports that said this was one British official. Pleeeaaassee! This was the head of MI6. How much authority do you want the man to have? He has just been to Washington, he has just talked to George Tenet. He said the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. That translates in clearer terms as the intelligence was being cooked to match what the administration wanted it to say to justify invading Iraq. Fixed means the same here as it does there. More leaks? I do hope so and the more Blair and Bush lie to try to get themselves off the hook the more likely it is that we will get more leaks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2005/06/14/DI2005061401261.html

[Spazito]

31. Here is what Michael Smith said on the question of 'fixed'

"Michael Smith: There are number of people asking about fixed and its meaning. This is a real joke. I do not know anyone in the UK who took it to mean anything other than fixed as in fixed a race, fixed an election, fixed the intelligence. If you fix something, you make it the way you want it. The intelligence was fixed and as for the reports that said this was one British official. Pleeeaaassee! This was the head of MI6. How much authority do you want the man to have? He has just been to Washington, he has just talked to George Tenet. He said the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. That translates in clearer terms as the intelligence was being cooked to match what the administration wanted it to say to justify invading Iraq. Fixed means the same here as it does there. More leaks? I do hope so and the more Blair and Bush lie to try to get themselves off the hook the more likely it is that we will get more leaks."


Link to interactive with Michael Smith as per the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2005/06/14/DI2005061401261.html?nav=rss_world

[spanone]

33. Criminal.....Bush* & Blair.....Criminal

[evermind]

32. My analysis, as a British person, who has a dictionary...

... and a degree in philosophy, with a significant linguistics component, for what that's worth (not much, if my salary is anything to go on ;-) )

I've posted about this at:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1864438#1864608

Briefly, "fixed" has about 19 different meanings (literally!) But the critical word in the sentence is "but". That guarantees a negative sense to "fixed", because it requires a negative qualification of the preceding sentence. None of the 19 senses of "fix" fit the bill except for (sense 12(b) in my copy of the Concise Oxford English Dictionary): "fraudulently arrange".

As any Wittgensteinian knows, words don't have meanings, sentences have meanings. :)

Full version at the link

[rzemanfl]

39. If I ever get to travel I want to go to Wittgenstein. n/t

[DemBones DemBones]

42. Thanks so much for your explanation and the link.

I was interested to see in the thread from Saturday that reporter Michael Smith had already addressed this non-issue. There are differences in usage between UK and US but this is not an example of one.

[oblivious]

35. They got blood on their hands.

[Donailin]

37. depends on what the meaning of "is" is

I'm really losing it. someone please kill me now

[mzmolly]

38. LOL. Which meaning the "English meaning" or the "English" meaning.

:crazy:

[oasis]

40. Wolfe from Newsweek makes good point. "No war plans" was what

Bush was repeating during the entire pre-war period.

[halobeam]

47. We most certainly need specific quotes from * during

that time frame saying, no war plans. Then a CLEAR timeline of the DSM with his statements.

Anyone quick with this? by the time I'd be done with it, we'd be onto the next nightmare they are cooking up....FIXING....fraudently arranging....

[LSK]

44. and they offer NOTHING as to what else it could mean....

FUCK THEM!!

[Generator]

45. Crap on a crapper (In Brit speak that means bloody shite!)

Fixed means something different in that funny Brit language huh? Maybe it's the trunk of a car or something. MAYBE that's where the weapons are.

I'm fixin' to blow a gasket and throw a spanner in the works.

Oh hilarity, my muse in these dark times.