Question regarding morals and family values.

[tjwash]

What exactly constitutes family morals? By that, I mean what is a clear cut list of attributes, that describes point by point, what constitutes morals and family values.

Why am I asking? Because it seems the neo-cons have appointed themselves the guardians and spokespeople for family values. The problem I have, is that every time I ask that particular question to a Conservative, I have never received a satisfactory, or even a complete answer. What I generally get in response, is a long winded homophobic rant, about how gays are destroying our country and family structure, how gays are evil people that are damned and going to hell because the bible says so, or how gays are hiding in the shadows and trying to kidnap our children and turn them into gays. As Al Franken says---"oyyyyy":eyes:

The Liberals I have posed the question to, have usually never disappointed, and give very well thought out answers. Among the points I have received in the past, are:

**Taking responsibility for your own children. This means do not blame the teacher or the school if your child is bringing home some "F's" on their report card, but investigate, and try to get to the root of any problems they may be having. In other words, don't expect teachers to be underpaid babysitters for your children at school, show them yourselves what is expected of them, and how to achieve it.

**Don't use athletes, or actors as role models. It sounds funny, but their are a lot of families that do just that. Use people that know the family members personally, that everyone respects and admires instead.

**Realize that everyone, no matter who, at some point in their lives needs a helping hand. You are not a "sap" for extending out a helping hand to someone in need, nor is it a sign on weakness for needing it.

**Turn off the TV.

I would sincerely enjoy hearing some responses from fellow DUers on this subject. As experience has shown, I am sure the responses (if any) this gets will be clear cut, and insightful.

Thanks...

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Moral values

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

This rule is found in the writings of every religious tradition (sometimes it is stated "do not do to others what you wouldn't like done to yourself", which means the same thing.)

Some non-Jews asked the famous Rabbi Hillel to explain the Torah while standing on one foot. Hillel raised his foot, recited the Golden Rule, and then said, "All else is commentary".

[jody]

5. Good choice, the Golden Rule

[Kraklen]

2. family values = put the gays on an island somewhere.

Generally, when somebody starts talking about family values it's a good time to ignore or mock them.

[Warpy]

4. No, it's a good time to ask them to define those values,

and don't take "Well, everybody knows what they are" for an answer. Tell them you're a Democrat, and that since your party doesn't have any, you're asking for their help.

The silence will be deafening. The faces will be red. After a while, the platitudes will issue forth and you'll say, "But we do that, too. Tell me how your values are so superior."

Either they'll wander off, stammer and stumble and change the subject, or get mad and yell at you.

If they're ever going to start to think, this is one way to get the process going.

[cynatnite]

3. I finally convinced my RW mother that her family values are not mine

The best I can come up with is that not everyone's family values is the same and it shouldn't be.

What frustrates me is when a RWer confuses family values with laws such as murder or stealing.

[donco6]

6. Here's the difference:

When a fundie talks about family values or morals, they're strictly referring to what they believe about the Bible. For them, there are no standards outside the Bible. So you CAN'T have the same values they do if you're not a Christian. It doesn't matter if you stack them all up together and they match perfectly - if you're not a born-again, Bible-believing, saved-by-the-blood-of-Jesus Christian, you don't have family values.

I avoid the term morals and use "ethics." Ethics do not depend on a book or outside source, but come from personal introspection and much thought. Actually, ethics are superior to morals, in that only ethics truly guide your personal actions. A person's ethics may match their morals, but quite often they don't (think Jim Bakker, ad nauseum). People give lip service to this "morality" in the Bible, but their personal ethics don't match, and that's what gives Christianity such a bad name.

[nonconformist]

7. The Republicans have bastardized the terms

They're ANYTHING but moral or ethical.

The Democratic party is the moral and ethical party.

For me and my family, morals mean a lot of things. It means empathy, first and foremost. It means kindness, caring and respect. It means appreciating what you have and never looking down on those who have less. It means contributing to society in a meaningful way. It means understanding your personal responsibility in this world and helping others. It means respecting animals and treating them with kindness. It means respecting the Earth and treating it with kindness. It means instilling a genuine appreciation for education in my children - not just so they can succeed, but so they can love learning their entire lives. I means reading around and with my kids and talking about politics and world events around and with them. It means being open and honest and available to them, free of judgment. It means teaching them to be humble and reasonable in this increasingly material world.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. In this family, morals have nothing to do with teaching hate, intolerance, shame or violence.