Does DSM lead to Impeachment?

[the_spectator]

Is this week like the week some years ago when the Monica story broke, and we were all subjected to the Monica-on-the-rope-line Hug Video? When people knew, given the state of the political climate in America at the time, that we were in for a long strange trip that would involve, or at least circle around, the "Big I"?

Here's my take on it. Yes, Bush could face serious Big I issues, but not now, and ONLY if two things happen:

1) The situation in Iraq just CONTINUES to worsen over the next year and a half, and worsen badly. So far the war is producing not-quite 1,000 U.S. combat deaths a year. To my mind, that number would have to get to 2,000 a year at least.

2) The Democrats take at least the House in the 2006 Election (the harder nut to crack) where Impeachment hearings are started.

For the next year and a half, we can only wait and see. Those are two bigs IFS. If they don't happen, DSM and related issues will end up, in retrospect, being nothing but background noise.

---
This all may be just mind-numbingly obvious, but I woud be interested to see whether or how much other people feel that this is a "magic moment."

[tk2kewl]

1. what is the breakdown of reps by party

and the breakdown of incumbents for '06? do you know?

[NewJeffCT]

22. The Republicans have 20+ seat edge, i think

In the house. It would have to be a huge groundswell to pick up the number of seats to overtake them in the House. If the media actually did their job & reported the atrocities of the Bush White House truly & accurately, we'd do it no problem. But, we really have to be focused in who we target (like Rob Simmons in my home state of CT...), as we don't have the money the Republicans have.

And, with the redistricting that happened in 2000 & DeLay's remapping of Texas last year, there are a lot more safe seats than in the past.

[iconoclastic cat]

2. The minute you hear a Republican rep talk about chipmeachment,

you know the fat lady is about to start belting.

[natrat]

13. chimpeachment-yea baby

[H2O Man]

3. Possibly.

But it isn't a good bet at this point. The make-up of the House in terms of democrat/republican is less important that the reaction of the general public. The Clinton impeachment was based soley on politics; it is not the model we should consider. The Nixon era should be our guide.

[RagAss]

18. I Agree...the Nixon model

The Nixon model is the only chance here...from the belly of the populace...not politicians....Watergate, for those of us who remember it, was like a cancer that started as a tiny mole on the cheek of a corrupt administration..it grew, fed by the onion peeling of facts and the drumbeat of everyday discussion, until the whole face was covered by the disease, and no other choice but to run away was left.......Once again....we have a mole on a cheek...what happens from here is up to us !!

[the_spectator]

19. It is Nixon model of course, not Clinton - but please --

Mixed metaphor city!

"like a cancer that started as a tiny mole on the cheek of a corrupt administration..it grew, fed by the onion peeling of facts and the drumbeat of everyday discussion, until the whole face was covered by the disease, and no other choice but to run away was left......."

Please! :rofl:

Forgive me - I can be a bit purple-prosey myself at times, but please!

And why are we "running away" at the end of all that? Because the face ends up looking just too scary and gross?

[RagAss]

20. I know...

I'm getting a little too geezed up over this DSM thing........

[the_spectator]

21. That's cool though -

I could just visualize someone plastering onion peelings on the patient's face while someone else bangs away furiously on his bongo drum - "uh guys, this isn't helping..."

I guess I'M just a little too stoned!

[Vincardog]

4. One we get the Congress to begin hearings on the DSM

the hearings have subpoena power and testimony is under oath.

Two the hearings are on CSPAN2 and the parade of lies and deceit is shown to the public for the next 18 months.

Three Bush's war in Iraq gets worse every day.

The American Public is so fed up with the NeoCons that they vote OVERWHELMINGLY for Democrats in 06.

The house and Senate go Democrat too big to cheat.

Then Impeach the whole criminal Cabal and we return to the company of civilized nations.

[H2O Man]

7. The House has expanded powers

in impeachment investigations that are not enjoyed in other hearings. It is highly unlikely that initial hearings would be for impeachment. Thus, they would have limited ability to access administration documents or testimony. But it's a good place to start. If the Bush White House refuses to cooperate, it will turn the public against them.

[golden voyages]

27. It kind of seems like they've been refusing to cooperate all along

the Plame investigation, who authorized Gannon, withholding the Bolton files, the $8 billion no-bid Halliburton contract ...the DSM is just the latest evasion.

Most people still don't know or care. The MSM has failed this nation. Big time.

[whistle]

5. 1,000 deaths, 2,000 deaths....what difference does that make....

...Americans dying over lies by top American leaders is grounds for impeachment. DSM is only the tip or the iceberg.

[the_spectator]

9. Yes, any Americans dying over lies is grounds,

but in terms of Impeachment, I CANNOT see it happening unless the Iraq project is judged to be a capital-F failure by the American consenus, rather than just the consensus here on DU.

To be honest, as I see it, one side at this point (this one) already says its a total failure. Bush's side says that "freedom's on the march". I think most Americans at this point are in the middle - they don't know - YET. They feel it could go either way.

Bush can only be impeached for this, in terms of practical politics, if it is seen as a failed war.

[goclark]

6. We can't "wait and see".We must be worker bees

from now until the election of 06 and beyond.

Scum like this must never be allowed to rule our country again.

[nonconformist]

8. In a sane society, yes.

On this magic carpet ride? Your guess is as good as mine.

[Zomby Woof]

10. Although it should

It won't.

[ailsagirl]

11. Except the media were so rabid about going after Clinton...

and there's so much "reluctance" on their part to cover
the DSM. Of course, we know why.

So, without the feeding frenzy that we experienced over
Clinton's "transgressions," I find it hard to believe we
can keep the momentum up over the DSM.

But I hope I'm wrong.

[FloridaPat]

12. I think it was Greg Palast who said that there will be no impeachment

until there are a million people in the streets demanding it. Only then will the house politicans be scared enough of their own voters to start the impeachment process.

[wurzel]

14. The case against Clinton was far flimsier than the DSMs.

The impeachment of Clinton was based on his lying on a deposition in a sex case. Actually any court of law would have thrown it out as a clear case of legal entrapment. What Bush has done is both illegal and unconstitutional with enough evidence that would convict him in any court of law.

[MrSlayer]

15. In a normal world it would but we are in bizzaro world.

Nothing surprises me about these bastards and I would not be shocked to see them skate again.

[Independent_Liberal]

16. I think it is leading to impeachment...

Some Republicans are starting to abandon ship. I wouldn't be surprised.

[corbett]

17. The Real Question Is Whether He'll Be Removed From Office

Let's remember that in order to be removed from office, the House must vote to impeach and then two-thirds of the Senate must vote to remove him from office. As of right now, Sensenbrenner won't even allow a hearing in the Judiciary Committee to decide if the whole process needs to begin.

I am confident that the Democrats will retake the Senate in 2006 if meaningful election reform is put in place now. Even if that happens, though, it's a long way to expulsion. At this juncture, what everyone needs to do is arrange to be in Washington on September 24 for the next big demonstration on the war. Details are available at

http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ANS_S24index

The only way this will work is when the mainstream press sees that it's not Democrats pushing the matter but veterans and widows, many of whom voted for the shrub at least once!

[journalist3072]

23. Here's the point we need to drive home..

Our main talking point needs to be that the Bush administration fixed the intelligence around the policy. That alone is grounds for impeachment. The policy should have been fixed around the facts, not the other way around.

They purposefully lied their way into Iraq. Which means they purposefully committed a high crime.

Drive this point home with the media, and most importantly, drive it home with the members of the House of Representatives.

[Samantha]

24. I think not only the Repubs but the Dems as well don't want impeachment

With some reluctance, some Repubs in private have admitted impeachment of Clinton was payback for Nixon. Dems know if they go after Bush*, a political payback will await in the future.

The discussion comparing the Nixon model versus the Clinton model was interesting; however, the Clinton impeachment began as a result of the Arkansas Project. When Clinton refused to accept the George H.W. Bush* deal to back off in 1992 and allow him to have a second term, in exchange for a free ride in 1996, the decision was made to go after Clinton and get him for any reason whatsoever. Some who joined this effort later on, joined as a participant of the Nixon payback, not as a result of Clinton's failure to deal.

On the other hand, while the path to impeachment took very different roads in these two cases, there are some "lowest common denominators." When one thinks of John Dean's first best seller "Blind Ambition," those very words remind us of today's neoconservatives. Chaney, who served under Nixon, had as a main thrust of this Administration to restore to the Executive Branch all of the power formerly held by the White House prior to the Nixon resignation. Thus, the strong arm tactics we see and adversely react to, are holdovers from that era. Just as those tactics, along with Blind Ambition took down the Nixon cabal, so can those same factors adversely impact the Bush* regime. We can only hope.

If the road to hell is paved with good intentions, perhaps the road to political hell is paved with Blind Ambition.

[halsaxby]

25. Impeachment? Yeah, right.

The corporate media will not allow the DSM to remain in the transient consciousness of the public for more than a week. It will be replaced with a Schiavo/Jacko type distraction.

In fact, comparing Clinton's aborted impeachment with DSM simply demonstrates that the "free" press has become the PR department for the Corporatocracy. Clinton's worst offense was lying about his infidelity, which is nominally a criminal act. The Monica Lewinsky story was in the press for months. It has been demonstrated that the Bush administration has fabricated evidence to "justify" it's commision of one of the worst crimes that a government can undertake, and it barely rates a front page story in most newspapers.

To reiterate:

Clinton: Guilty about lying about adultery. Leads to months of dogged press coverage and nearly impeachment.

Bush/Cheney: Fabricated mounds of evidence to justify the wholesale slaughter of Iraqis and US soldiers, in order to loot Iraqi resources. Leads to 3 days of mildly unfavorable press coverage.

At this point, it is quite likely that more innocents have been killed in Iraq than on 9/11. I bet you won't read that in your local newspaper.

[leftofthedial]

26. the Clinton impeachment was utterly divorced from reality

there was nothing happening in the real world. there was a zillion-dollar smear campaign conducted for four years in a RW echo chamber and a monolithic utterly amoral lock-step repuke majority in the House dedicated to Clinton's destruction.

Impeachment is not gonna happen.

[Disturbed]

28. The DSM documents are not enough.

What is needed are documents from the CIA &/or Dept. of Defense that are actual proof that Bush lied to the Congress about Iraq.

[leftofthedial]

30. I truly, sincerely believe that reality will have no effect on anything

that happens politically.

not evil or criminal acts

not bad policy

not horrific results from bad policy

will result in any tangible consequences for bush and his gang

nothing except political will, which currently does not exist, CAN result in impeachment.

[Independent_Liberal]

29. I'm more hopeful than some...

I don't know why. Maybe I'm just a hopeless optimist.