US military death count much higher than numbers reported?

[tinfoilinfor2005]

Listening to AAR today, I heard a report that the military only reports the numbers of soldiers actually killed in action. If a soldier is shot and later dies in the hospital, he is not part of the reported military deaths.
If true, this is outrageous! And if so, what is the official count? These are our soldiers, not an independently run mercenary outfit. And why haven't I heard of this before?

[END_HATRED_NOW]

1. you have a link for that yet?

[liam97]

3. The link

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/jim-lampley/the-ultimate-deception_2838.html

[tinfoilinfor2005]

8. Thank you. That sounds like the numbers they were quoting.

[Internut]

31. Apparently you didn't see Lampley's

apology for spreading misinformation in his blog:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/jim-lampley/a-poor-choice-of-sources_2891.html

[tinfoilinfor2005]

6. No, heard it on my car radio...

I believe on the Ed Schultz show.

[cynatnite]

2. Someone needs to set AAR straight about this

This claim comes from a nazi site that hates everybody. They are holocaust deniers. I won't even link to the site because it's offense to a lot of people here at DU.

It's a complete lie.

[Oversea Visitor]

7. Let Cheney or Rumfield do it

OF course they might choose to ignore. Then you know there is a smoke.

[marmar]

4. Fuzzy math...

I'm sure the actual number is WAY higher, not just what Newspeak is giving us.

[bicentennial_baby]

5. Watch out for TBR news

Holocaust denial, anti-semitic, etc..

[OneBlueSky]

35. TBR is where this story originated . . .

that site is largely fiction, and you're right . . . it's run (and most of the articles are written) by a Holocaust-denying anti-Semite . . . good place to stay away from, and certainly not a source for good info on anything . . .

[xray s]

9. I would doubt that's true

There is a website that gives the details of all the casualties. If a bunch were missing I would think those families would be speaking up, loudly.

[END_HATRED_NOW]

10. maybe they are & we just don't hear about it

[END_HATRED_NOW]

11. the military hides so much, how can you doubt another cover-up?

[END_HATRED_NOW]

17. check out what the military really does this is not on the news

http://www.mediareviewnet.com/what%20us%20troops%20are%20really%20doing%20in%20iraq.htm

[kittenpants]

12. I don't think this is true

check out www.icasualties.org It has the troops who have been killed and shows where they died. Many died in military hospitals outside of Iraq. As someone else said, I don't think the families would be quiet if their son/daughter wasn't on the list.

[Old and In the Way]

13. Seems like this could be validated.

I'm surprised that the parents/husband/wives of soldiers killed due to war injuries would be demanding that their loved ones be recognized for their sacrafice. Why hasn't a national effort be made to collect and recognize the real loses sustained in this war?

If it is closer to 6,000 than 1,750 I think this is an outrageous thing for this administration to hide from the American people.

[China_cat]

15. Maybe they think they are.

After all, we're not allowed to see the coffins coming back so that anyone could count them.

[END_HATRED_NOW]

19. actually even senators aren't even allowed on bases! Nobody is!

They stopped the reporters from war reporting, why would this be strange to believe the military keeps secrets?

[END_HATRED_NOW]

18. hiding things from the American public is the military's specialty

[Massacure]

27. Ya, the military cannot keep its mouth shut very long.

If they do manage to keep it shut, they usually shoot themselves in the foot trying. Roswell is a perfect example. The military needs to keep their balloons with nuclear detonation sensors a secret, and to their horror the cover story, the UFO, becomes just as big of a problem.

[China_cat]

14. I don't know about 9000

but I do know that here in Charleston, the Citadel planted 1834 American flags on their grounds for Memorial Day in honor of the fallen in Iraq. I don't think anyone would even consider the Citadel as being left of Genghis Khan.

[LynnTheDem]

16. No it's not true, and if AAR bothered to check sites such as the ICCC

they'd see a whole bunch of dead soldiers listed as having been wounded in Iraq but died in Germany and Kuwait and the USA etc.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

20. I was skeptical because it was the first I'd heard about it...

We at DU are trying very hard to bring to light factual evidence of bush's screwups. Stuff like this, if false, does not help our cause.

[END_HATRED_NOW]

23. being skeptical is good, but let's check into it B4 assuming anything

[END_HATRED_NOW]

21. why is that site holier than though?

[kittenpants]

22. have you looked at it?

it's includes soldiers that died outside of Iraq. The # is the same as the gov't #. Granted, there could be suicides or accidents that may not count, but not to the degree of 9000.

[END_HATRED_NOW]

24. yes, I've seen it but one thing I know for sure...

there are so many sites and each one has a different number, how can anyone know for sure? The total number of Iraqis is seperated from 25,000 up to 100,000, that's a huge difference! Why should you only say one site is correct?

[LynnTheDem]

26. It's "thou" and what makes you say it's "holier than"?

All I said was check that site; it shows very clearly troops who were wounded in Iraq, died outside Iraq, and were counted.

I know. I work with the ICCC.

[Sather Gate]

25. True casualties including loss of limb

are much higher than generally thought. I have doctor acquaintances who are at Landstuhl, the major receiving hospital in Germany. There are large numbers of severely wounded shipped there. These doctors' estimate is that there are 15 to 20 times the number of severely wounded, per each KIA, due to IEDs, the rebels' preferred weapon. That would translate to 25,000 plus casualties severely maimed and crippled. These are young soldiers missing one or more limbs, often blinded and disfigured. They are as effectively out of action as KIA. The rebels have learned shaped charges, and these charges can easily blow a hole through even an armored HumVee, or Bradley, or if they're lucky, disable an M1A1 Abrams tank. The Sunni center and much of the north can be considered as a minefield.
The rebels also have surface to air missiles, and lots of RPGs. More helicopters and even jet aircraft are being shot down than the military acknowledges.
The reason that the Marines have staged repeated offensives in the far western al Qaim area is to try to interdict the resupply of these weapons from Syria. Too big an area for the spread-out troops to interdict though.

[LynnTheDem]

28. "Casualties" and "deaths" are not the same thing.

And your post is very interesting..."resupply of these weapons from Syria"...your user name is very interesting, too...

[Sather Gate]

30. I agree

casualties and deaths are not the same. The military would group "casualties" as KIA; died from wounds or complications - what we're talking about here; major wounded, incapable of returning to action; and minor wounded; missing in action; and captured. Everybody except the minor wounded is out of action.
My name expresses my ole beloved Alma Mater - the UNIVERSITY - B.A. 1969, Ph.D. 1975 as I've given on another thread where I met a fellow Cal alum who was the Moderator. Beat them Injuns aka Stanford Cardinal.

[LynnTheDem]

33. The US miliary also counts troops who die in Iraq from non-battle

injuries.

There is 1 US soldier listed as MIA.

The military does give 'wounded not ret'd to duty' and 'wounded ret'd to duty' figures, but I doubt those are all-inclusive figures because no individual names are listed, which means no family/friends/fellow soldiers/doctors/nurses/evac teams etc can say hey so & so is missing off the list.

Unfortunately the military is so desperate for warm bodies that even some seriously woundeds have been/are being returned to duty. And that is one serious FUBAR and tragedy.

***

Great play on words re your name. :D

[Bravo411]

29. Reganomics at work

Regan brought the unemployment rate down in a very short time. Just how did he do it? Well, once your unemployment benefits ran out, you were no longer counted in the unemployment figures.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they are only counting those that were killed in combat on the ground. If you died on the transport to Germany, or in the hospital, they don't count it as part of their official count.

I've seen the TBRNews site, and looked at their links, which gave me pause. A lot of their stories are from other sources and I haven't crossed checked them to see if they altered them or not, but their original stuff I have to question.

But that doesn't mean that the official count hasn't been dimmed down one way or another. I'm sure the real count is much higher.

[ThoughtCriminal]

32. What I've heard (here) is slightly different

and I can't confirm it. The numbers do not include soldiers that died in hospitals after they were evacuated from Iraq.

[Internut]

34. These soldiers all died in hospitals in Germany and the US:

and are all included in the totals:

Washington, Bennie J.
Frist, Luke P.
Jones, Michael D.
Garceau, Seth K.
Sutphin, Ernest Harold
Matthews, Clint Richard "Bones"
Vega, Michael W.
LaWare, Casey M.
Dickens, Tyler J.
Fox, Bradley C.
Dunham, Jason L.
Jenkins, Troy David
Little, Tommy S.
Holmes, James J.
Bordelon, Michael J.
Schmidt III, John T.
Chaney, William D.
Seesan, Aaron N.
Collins, Randy D.
Lambert, Jonathan W.
Bolding, Todd J.
Mendoza, Antonio
Mattek Jr., John J.
Latham, William T.
Martin, Stephen G.
Coons, James Curtis
McKinley, Robert L.
Neusche, Joshua M.
Mardis Jr., Paul C.
Engel, Mark E.
McCune, Donald R.
Colunga, Zeferino E.
Houghton, Andrew R.
Kirchhoff, David M.
Ivory, Craig S.
Thompson, Jarrett B.
Pinkston, Foster
Adams, Brandon E.
Prewitt, Tyler D.
Nolan, Allen
Ramos, Tamarra J.
Pettaway Jr., James L.
Baker, Ronald W.
Gadsden, Jonathan E.
Fisher, Paul F.
McVey, Otie Joseph
Jimenez, Linda C.
Downey, Michael A.
Tyrrell, Scott Matthew
Welke, Joseph T.
Heredia, Joseph J.
Edinger, Benjamin C.
Nolte, Nicholas S.
Smith, Michael A.
Pena, Javier Obleas-Prado
Young, Ryan C.
Renehan, Kyle J.
Nelson, Craig L.

(names taken from icasualties.org)

[rfrrfrrfr]

36. This rumor is untrue and has to be stopped.

Its bad and makes us look like the boy who cried wolf.


For the morbid amongst you.

http://icasualties.org/oif /

Complete listing of iraqi casualties to date.

And the debunking of this stupid idiotic rumor at
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/20/24437/8204
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/19/13126/2340