War with Iran, has it started?

[lonestarnot]

The US war with Iran has already begun --by Scott Ritter "President Bush has taken advantage of the sweeping powers granted to him in the aftermath of 11 September 2001, to wage a global war against terror and to initiate several covert offensive operations inside Iran. The most visible of these is the CIA-backed actions recently undertaken by the Mujahadeen el-Khalq, or MEK, an Iranian opposition group, once run by Saddam Hussein's dreaded intelligence services, but now working exclusively for the CIA's Directorate of Operations."

www.legitgov.org

[Zinfandel]

1. Scott Ritter was, and is, 100% correct about Iraq and I have no reason to

doubt him about Iran, (great article).

The Bush insanity will continue no matter how low his poll numbers go...With a complicit corporate media there to convince the public Bush's support is much larger than it actually is, while doing everything they can to cover up and by simply NOT reporting all the Bush lies and deeds.

[lonestarnot]

2. There must be a way to reach more public...

[Selatius]

20. We should let Iranians themselves pull a regime change

The dissatisfaction with the Iranian government is reaching an all time high in Iran. If things keep going this way, the Iranians themselves will be the ones to rise up and take out the ayatollahs.

But if the US does something stupid such as send in covert ops to, for instance, bomb Iran's nuclear fuel processing facilities, we would only be stoking the Iranian flames of nationalism. They may detest the government, but they detest even further the idea of any foreign power interfering with their homeland.

[expatriot]

3. No. There will be no open war with Iran in near future IMHO

Just because the neocons are completely insane and disconnected from reality does not mean they have complete unchecked power. We do not have the military resources to launch an invasion of Iran and then occupty it while simultaneously fending off intense renewed insurgencies in Iraq (Shia revolts) and Afghanistan. There is no fricking way. Top military brass would protest vehemently about endangering the military so wrecklessly and Congressional Republicans and the Republican rank and file is already looking for an exit to Iraq. The ONLY way a war on Iran would be tolerated is if they got a very good "smoking gun" that somehow unquestionably pointed to Iran. And even if there were a smoking gun, any temporary support Bush could rile up for a war would greatly dissipate once the realties set in and the realities would be very harsh indeed. A full-fledge Iraqi Shia revolt supported by Iran, 60 million Iranians fighting to the death to protect their sovereignty. Ritter speaks of 10 Iraqi divisions... commanded by Shia! Where would their morale come from fighting US's war against their Shia brothers?


This is pure delusion. It won't happen. I'm sure Bush and Co. would LOVE it to happen but they are not gods, they do not have the loyalty across the government or even their party to carry out their whims Hitleresque

[lonestarnot]

4. Not if bushitler tosses them a couple of nukes.

[expatriot]

6. oh yeah, everyone involved in THAT operation would keep their mouths

closed. For god sakes, do you know how many hundreds of people would have to be involved in an operation like that? Not one of those hundreds of people, career intelligence people, career military, etc. would have serious qualms about transferring nukes to Iran? I know we think Bush has a lot of power but he does not enjoy unflinching, unquestioniing support from a large segment of society, especially among the government bureacracy. FOr god sakes, Mr. Freedom Fries is calling for a pull out. Bush does NOT have as tight of a grip on power as Hitler did.

[lonestarnot]

7. I think you "misunderestimate" bushitler's money/power.

[expatriot]

12. No, I think you do.

How does Bush's power exceed the reality of our military's own capabilities? Will he conjure up an army of orcs from the sands of Mesopatamia? You have 60%+ Amerioans wanting to withdraw toops from Iraq, his approval rating is 41%, House Republicans are running from him like the plague and Senate Republicans are very vocal in their criticism of his policies in Iraq. If he had all this power would he allow such widespread criticism of his rule? Would he allow such pessimistic polls to be published? The real powers in this country, the corporations would probably prefer McCain to Bush since Bush rises national divisions by playing to social conservatism so much while McCain is JUST as pro-corporate as Bush. You misunderestimate the power of Bush, IMHO.

[lonestarnot]

15. When do you recall any time bushitler dabbled in reality... can he be

reelected? When did he ever give a flying elephant about his popularity in the poles? And he's used to people running from him like he has the bird flu. He's NEVER paid any attention to ANY criticisms even those that have slipped into MSM. The select few corps that are in favor of propogating further wars are in charge of the country and stand to benefit tremendously from a few stategically placed nukes. We shall see.

[expatriot]

18. Once again, it matters very little whether he is connected in reality or

not. If he ordered a nuclear strike tonight on Russia and China without provocation, do you think it would be followed through with? He technically has the executive authority to launch such a strike. I think that in such a scenario, you would have serious breaks in the chain of command. Just outright refusals of duty, Top brass would call Congress, there would be midnight sessions, etc.

Now in this case the breakdown of command would be less dramatic and quick, but it would be happening the same. IF we were building up for an Iranian invasion (and like I said, an air war without an invasion would be even more foolhardy), there would be more leaks trhan a sponge in reports or wargames, in supply buildups, etc. Congress would be all ears and would be holding hearings, demanding votes, etc. I HAVE To go to bed now. Night.

[lonestarnot]

19. Me too... and I hope you are right!

[Selatius]

9. Not sure, but I think there are 75,000,000 Iranians, not 60 mil.

I could be wrong though.

[expatriot]

14. probably right, I probably have an old stat in my head.

[lala_rawraw]

5. We know it has...

There have been reports of drones and just recently an "event". Consider the media blackout regarding to when we actually invaded Iraq.

[expatriot]

8. of course we are doing over-flights, we do that to almost every country?

So we are at war with IRan, according to you. With what troops? We are already stretched thin with an occupation of a nation of 21 million, now we are going to invade and occupy a nation of 60 million? Many respond to this by saying: it may just be an air war. That may be even more stupid because then Iran wouild POUR troops into Iraq, rally the Shia against us and we would in a major sandwhich fuck, now wouldn't we?

[iconoclastic cat]

10. He couldn't do it alone, that's for sure.

[lala_rawraw]

11. No, we have people on the

ground now...black ops via Rummy, reported on widely... Google is available for you to look through. read any recent events regarding Iran? we don't need troops for this, we just need to stimulate a revolt as we have done in other countries, we also have paid and continue to pay hired guns. please get a grip... I do not "according to me" think we are at war with Iran because we are spying on them. there is far more to it and it is far more complicated... Google is available.

[expatriot]

13. Well first of all, covert special ops is not a war.

Secondly, if we are doing this (the frequency of which is also in question) and there is a US-Iran firefight and Iran ends up with US dogtags and ID's then all bets are off. IRan will incite IRaqi Shia to rise up and they will flood Iraq with troops and we will be seriously Fucked. But spec ops and overflights are not an "overt attack." where would we get resources for this?

[lonestarnot]

17. Noone in this administration cares about resources particularly bushitler!

[expatriot]

21. hallucinations are not real! we KNOW Bush & the neocons

are disconnected from reality but that does not mean he can conjure things up out of his mind and make them real! If he doesn't have the troops to invade and occupy Iran, it doesn't matter HOW disconnected from reality he is, it's not going to happen. You keep saying "Bushitler is disconnected from reality," So? If Bush DOES attack Iraq it will be a historic catastrophe, are military will be devastated and Bush will become a villain and an impeached and removed villain. i need to go to bed. night

[lala_rawraw]

22. Okay, I throw hands up...

What do you want me to say? Give you a book of the past 3 years and the most recent 3 months?

Google:
Ritter
Iran Rummsfeld
Iran Negorponte
Iran explosions May - June 2005
Iran voting concerns (Bush and team)
just to name a few...

I cannot summarize the things I can state and can summarize the things I am not at liberty to state. I am, in fact, stuck in a catch 22. So, do the leg work and all will be cleared up quickly.

3 am and time for bed me thinks.

[lonestarnot]

16. thanks lala_rawraw!

[lala_rawraw]

23. what, what did I do?

I don't think I made much sense this fine early morning... did I make sense on something in here? If so, woo hoo and your welcome:)

[lonestarnot]

24. You speak truth which makes very good sense any time of the day!

[tex-wyo-dem]

25. Yes, it's started, as most wars start...

with covert operations, establishing allied groups and collaborators, establishing bases of operation, producing catalysts for social upheaval, etc. Softening up the target, so to speak.

Ritter claims bases are being established in Azerbaijan...
- Azerbijan is very strategic local if you are planning to attack Tehran
- Bush just visited Georgia, which is in the immediate area...hmmmm

Bombings recently took place during election in a country where bombings are rare.

CIA recently came out and claimed they knew the whereabouts of OBL...consequently others have come out claiming OBL is now in Iran.

RW rhetoric has been going on for over a month now on "nuclear Iran" and other propaganda. IMO they've dropped the WMD claim for now trying to pull attention away from the DSMs...they are going with the OBL excuse for the time being.